I grew up in a region where religion didn't play a big role, in a historical context it does, but not in common life. I traveled enough, in regions like this lots of people find the Father and ask by them self, what is this all about, Jesus und church? If you happen to have found the Father, you'd better watch out. It's Ramadan, friendliest greatings to the Muslims.

(V): No Jules, you have always given some statistic about how the US ranks 30 something in the world in infant mortality rates

but if what AD has shown is true, they are comparing apples to oranges

Czuch, AD: I think it should be noted that only very few of the countries ranked higher than the United States on the infant mortality list use other criteria for the definition of a live birth than those used in the US. I understand, however, that it is hard to put up with the fact that the noble country, or the nation of beautiful babies, is not ranked anywhere close to the top of the list.

Pedro Martínez: They can't admit that anything is wrong with the US as it is now.  It would be "unpatriotic".  Besides, admitting anything is wrong might lead to (gulp!) socialism.

If you wonder about the fuss about the Lockerbie story, that is the background: Libya knows enough about violation of human rights of the organisation Frontex. Drowned refugees in the mediterranean sea = Frontex. Our govts who love their hypocrisy are in panic just now. It's over the bluff with moral high ground. Oh wait, the machine keeps rolling lol for good measure.

Whoooooo!!! :-)

Who's that American sending spam to the Scottish? Who ever he is, the signal he is sending out to people in rage is: look, here I am, here, here hello hehehehe

I wouldn't wonder if inside certain govts some people are thinking about faking a terror attack like the London car bombings 7/7 2007.

So we have now people standing up who want to protect their "right" to violate human rights (if I say human rights it is unqualified, not a juridical term out of my mouth, just human rights like the right of integrity). I think my own fight against terror and sort of fashisms comes forward

Pedro Martínez: US's ranking on infant mortality as a direct cooresponding factor to the quality of US health care was the connection that was being made. I have shown that making such an analysis based on that single factor is faulty at best. It should concern all Americans that the infant mortality rate is high. But to conclude that it's the fault of the health care system ignores more likely factors. If all data collecting were equal, then the comparisons would have more meaning.

Ferris Bueller: Both Czuch and I have admitted to the US having its faults. No country is perfect. But to isolate one factor (a flawed one at that) to make a point regarding US health care shows the weakness in one's argument, not a strength.

Artful Dodger: Thats correct... Jules has consistently made the point that the US health care system is flawed, and uses our infant mortality rate as a good example... again, we are not perfect, but I dont believe we are as flawed as some may want to project.

Pedro Martínez: Sorry, I did not read any of your links, so i will assume they are negative towards the US health care system.... but even so, it is not the ultimate dagger in our system as a whole.

But I can agree... there is something wrong with that ranking, it is disturbing to me!

Ferris Bueller: I can see your point, and agree with you, somewhat.... part of it is patriotic, and socialism is against everything that made our country great in the firsts place....but it doesnt change the fact that our government is a lot worse at running things than is our private industry, more government is NOT the answer

Socialism , along with socialized health care in my opinion, can work well in small industrialized nations that have a firm grip on immigration,. But that nation better have a very strong economy. Britain , Canada, Europe, look at at France and its immigration status.. crow all you want now,, but the birth rate is changing, and so is the complexion of Europe and America

and there's nothing anyone can do about it, the Mexicans will reclaim the southwest, and more, the Arabs will reclaim the middle east and some of Europe.Who knows what the world will be like in 59 years. for good or bad who's to say?????

GTCharlie: Well I'm moving to Antarctica!

Artful Dodger: Sorry take a number please,, we will be right with you

Artful Dodger, Czuch: I'm not saying that the US health care system is of inferior quality. I just wanted to point out that the infant mortality ranking, as available at Wikipedia, for example, is not the same as comparing apples to oranges. I think that it would be better to mark those countries where live births are defined differently, but in general, I would say that the list is a reliable source and should not be deprecated.

The second part of my previous post came from something in me feeling some kind of disgust over the first sentence of the article provided by AD. That is definitely NOT how a serious and professional article should begin. The "patriotism" has already gone too far in the US. Too bad that not many realize that.

Czuch: Again... I say, which type of socialism?

And if your private sector is so great.. why is there a crime called corporate manslaughter. Also.... why is it that your health industry is making huge profits at the expense of you the tax payers?

Efficiency can come in many forms and through many types of system.

And btw... looking and your countries declaration of independence... For the people, not for business to take the mickey and exploit your government.

(V): why is there a crime called corporate manslaughter.

A crime is a crime..... you dont change a whole system, just enforce the laws already there to help.

Czuch: Sigh..... never mind. There was a point but you missed it.

Pedro Martínez: "We're a nation of beautiful babies." It wasn't written by a professional journalist but by a doctor. And that first sentence is a simple literary device. It's odd to me that you would be disgusted over reading it. I'm not sure how you took that first sentence but I suspect you read too much into it. And the author's audience is Americans. I doubt that there were many that were disgusted by that sentence. Why were you so put off by it?

Artful Dodger: What gets me is her abuse of medical advances, your "70%" drop in baby deaths is pretty much what has been happening woldwide with advances in medicine, it's not a purely 'American' thing and as much is a distortion.

Premature babies in the 70's had far less a chance to survive then they do now in any country. That is a fact.

The chinese KP starts the trials because of the recent protests of the Uyghurs. We do not forget that the reason for the protests are acts of caprice of this ugly KP. The chinese leadership likes to outline that they have problems in the provinces, but the murder number one in China is Hu Jintao. The corrupt number one in China is Hu Jintao. Of course, acts of caprice and the monopoly on legitimate use of force is explosive. I'll dance the day the Chinese will be free again. I'm still waiting for the police u-turn, it's behind their back the problem, upwards in the leaderships. There is no reason to be violent, that goes for every policecorp, everywhere.

I would not forget to question the mainstreem medicine itself. It is an importent factor in overboarding costs, the mainstreem medicine is hostile to life in parts, a pure moneymaking machine. I can sing a song about. Some people would prefer me being into greek mythology like themseft (although they occupy the psychiatric clinic ofthe olymp), because that way I would be meditating in a cell for many years. This mainstreem doctors almost made a murder of me, just to illustrate my anger. Burn Greece, you deserve it, because you know who owns the Olymp.

It is close to certain that the fires north of Athens are acts of incendianism. It's people who want to force the urbanisation around Athen, it's the usual procedure in south of Europe. We allready know who profitates, we allready know the logos of the companies who will be shamelessly present. Vandals!

The CIA needs .... I'm disgusted at what is reported... sick!!

Artful Dodger: Well, AD, if it was written by a professional journalist, I wouldn't be put off by it at all. But this was written by a doctor as a want-to-be scientific article, the goal of which was to prove that the mortality rate of American infants is not as bad as reported. To me, the purpose of the first sentence was to tune the reader to the patriotic frequency, thus distorting the whole view of the issue. There is no place for such "literary devices" in articles of this kind. But yes, maybe I really am reading too much into it, as in general I do agree with the point the doctor is trying to make in that article.

Pedro Martínez: Ok well said. And I do see your point. I'll say that the first sentence certainly wasn't necessary to the point of the article.

Czuch: Did you read it before you posted it And the daily mail is attacking the Labour party as such, as they are very much pro-Conservative.

But that's normal for them... very normal

Czuch: its happening more and more
we have an acute shortage of midwives all over the country
its yet another disgraceful aspect to our health service

Czuch: Great link Czuch. It's the only way the government runs its public services: badly. Every single US government run public service is bankrupt. And the idiots on the Hill think that more public service options is a good thing. What a bunch of morons. I hope tons of those fools get voted out next election. EVERYONE in the US has access to healthcare. EVERYONE. It's a lie that they don't. The Dems trade on fear. In the US, people can get surgerys FREE. You have to qualify of course, and you have to do some work (like applying and getting off your butt and following through to prove you need the free services). I have a friend who just had knee surgery and he didn't pay a dime for it. Obama couldn't get elected again if the election were held today. Now that people see how far left he really is, he is losing a lot of middle support (the biggest group in the US).

Snoopy: Nothing to do with the NHS... it's policies again. A reform of government is needed as in most governments to stop people who realistically know nothing (as with private industry bosses setting company policy) making decisions. And now.. they are having to recruit that which has been known for many years...

... staff.

Cost cutting I've seen in essential areas can mess up any organisation. I've seen at least one org struggle to keep to it's promises (as in contractual obligation) due to not having enough staff and in due course damage their customer base.

At the same time, the increase in population through influxes into this country was not properly estimated (or not publicly) to save face... politics or a bad call??

Also, it seems not as many are going naturally into the midwife profession. Despite there being plenty of room for new midwives, the recruitment rate for new midwives is down (see RCM website) ...

Plus.... one minor point... there is no such thing as a scheduled birth, except in extreme situations. You cannot say "the average birth rate is". This policy (NHS Trust as per Maggie) of the NHS being a business has introduced models that (through logic) cannot work.

You know one thing... After WWII in the rebuild of Germany, the model for a company involved that representatives of the workforce were on the board as active partners in the running of the company. If a 'boss' had an idea that was silly, the workforce had a voice and active part in policy.

Over 'ere businesses rejected such a radical idea as being silly, didn't want the lads seeing them 'run' a business.

Like when a certain financial director got blackmailed over an 'event' to stop him spilling the beans on a certain chairman and the board.... such as tax fraud, backhanders, ignoring expert advice.

Artful Dodger: And you say the banks have been running badly, as the car manufacturers and they should all go bankrupt. And all the small businesses, the home owners no facing losing their home.

Btw.. is it true or not (in some part or not) that in the USA after a certain time there are no GP's (night, etc) and you have to go to A&E?

And why is it.. (one thing we all agree on) that the tort system is so messed up and no one is sorting it.. or no 'urgent' activity by both parties. Bush and the Republicans could have sorted it, as could have the Democrats at the time.

And if you have not heard... beware of iphones and ipods.... there is a slight danger of them exploding or the screen shattering due to what is believed to be an overheating problem.

Apple are aware but will not comment on what, and the EU's dangerous product database has been updated.

(V): Also, it seems not as many are going naturally into the midwife profession. Despite there being plenty of room for new midwives, the recruitment rate for new midwives is down


ya think this has anything to do with the fact that they can earn more doing something else???

Czuch: ya think this has anything to do with the fact that they can earn more doing something else???

spot on

In the gb nhs is almost for free, and you get a 2nd class service. You get yourself a insurance and boum, healthcare suddenly healthcare costs. As a foreigner you take an insurance with you, especially if you have health problems.

Artful Dodger: not only it's run like rabirs and dogs and what ever, it's getting expensive to get governed lmao.

Czuch: No, not really. Never heard that such 'jobs' as midwifery and the like are vocations rather than just something to get paid for.

Plus I did a significant amount of reading and the RCM say Noooooooooooooo

(V): Jules, that's insane. Can you provide a like supporting this particular Noooooooooooooo?

Czuch: he probably did a "significant" amount of reading....no job...nothing better to do....nooooooooooo....hehehe

This article doesn't seem to bear this nr. 4000 to a period of time or the about 6 mio. birth yearly. Taken by Jules this little number must be those who do not savor the vocation.

Bernice: Now imagine if he did a "considerable" amount of reading....

Pedro Martínez:

GTCharlie: It tells you how bad it must be over there, if they are willing to move back here and take what Bam is about to hand out

Pedro Martínez: Shhhh ...if I did that, it wouldn't be fair on others.

Czuch: Well, as the EU pointed out... it's their fault... So does Art!!

Hopefully the new rules on stupid banking will stop this.

In a recent report, 9 out of 10 NHS patients found their treatment to be good or excellent.

The main complaint seemed to be a minority of nurses resulting in a 2% negative experience.

........ And them nurses now face being struck off.