Jim Dandy: Well I hope and pray you are right.

(V): "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us"

-Golda Meir

Jim Dandy:

Jim Dandy: Not quite right.. it needs to include also when they don't fear for their children and feel their children have a future.

Artful Dodger: Our fear regarding the present condition was that there might be a double dip.

Btw did you hear how Boeing risked all in developing the 747. Spent everything and upto the waist in debt. Private enterprises in the USA spent over a billion just to get to the wind tunnel stage of testing a supersonic jet liner design.

.. yet the UK and French government completed Concorde for the same money. The project went over budget.. but the plane was a beauty. No-one can even match it today, at the time it'd even outrun the RAF's interceptors.

(V): "The Egyptians could run to Egypt, the Syrians into Syria. The only place we could run was into the sea, and before we did that we might as well fight."

-Golda Meir

Every year, Americans for Tax Reform calculates Cost of Government Day — exactly how many days of the year Americans work to pay the total cost of government. This includes all government spending by federal, state, and local government. It also includes the costs forced into every product and service we buy in the private sector by state and federal regulations. Some regulations are silly and destructive. Others are important and useful. But none are free.

In 2008, Americans worked 197 days, until July 16 — in other words, more than half the year — to pay for the total cost of government. As a result of the bailouts, stimulus, and increased discretionary spending in the federal budget and new taxes for health care, Americans this year have worked until August 19, fully 231 days.

Jim Dandy: .. It doesn't mean the Israelis have the right to take land not theirs. I can understand defence, but I wish the UN could be used to deal with any Palestinian attacks rather than the Israeli army. I also wish all the UN resolutions made against Israel would have been enforced.. again to introduce a UN force. Also that the UN resolutions the USA 'vetoed' were not.

Our country is officially annoyed with Israel, over their breaking a promise NOT to use fake British passports again to allow them to enter another country in order to assasinate people.

Artful Dodger: You forgot to pay for the rich folks tax cut. They must be surely broke by now... NOT!!!

(V): Don't get me started

Jim Dandy: ...??? At the Balfour declaration?? *ducks*

(V):

Election day here today....what a farce.....
do you vote for the party that was voted out 2 1/2 yrs ago, but I might add left millions in the coffers to enable us to get through the recession virtually unscathed and whose leader is Tony ABbot...OR, do you vote for the current party, Labour, who has our first woman as a leader but her predecesor Kevin Rudd, who has spent all the money and gotten us into debt....people think they are great because they got a "free" handout of a couple thousand dollars (which sent the country nearly broke) or do you vote for the Liberals whose leader is an idiot....John Howard resigned unfortunately :(
We have preferential voting here which means you have to be careful whom you vote for as their preferences could be with someone you don't like :(
such a cunundrum (sp)

Bernice: Liberals…

Pedro Martínez: I have to agree with you but Brer Rabbit (Tony Abbot) isn't the most charismatic/likeable person either ROFL

Bernice: I hear what you're saying, but you'd have to torture me to make me vote for the left… We also have a moronic leader of the strongest right-wing party here, but getting them elected was still better than the other option… :)

Pedro Martínez: yes me too sadly

Bernice: that's a bit of a problem here too. People don't really trust the Repubs and in fact, they have less trust for them than they do the Dems. But the liberal spending and runaway govt isn't flying with the majority. Obama is still strong but losing ground. AND his fellow Dems are all in trouble. It's a tough year to be a Dem.

Artful Dodger: oh well by the end of the day will tell us if we have our first elected PM in Julia Gillard, or Joolya as she has been nic'd or the Libs return to power.

Libs always run things into the ground. Their philosophy is wrong. Republicans loose out when they violate their principles of low spending, limited government, and deference to the states.

LOL, I like this conversation. Libs vs. Libs.

Pedro Martínez: yes but the 2 libs are vastly different I think LOL....but must admit to knowing nothing of american politics except there are a lot of idiots same as here....both in Govt and out of Govt.

Bernice: Yeah, I still am confused by your political terms. Wonder why they mean such different things? Here small government and fiscal conservatives are the Conservative party. They typicaly oppose abortion and entitlements. Libs the opposite. Sometimes the lines are blurred which is what many Repubs did during the Bush admin. For example, bush was a big spender. Not the way of the Conservative party.

Artful Dodger: it will be interesting to see how the australian public take to a self confessed atheist...Joolya and she hates kids ROFLMBO....AND she is shacked up with her guy, so when she goes into Parliament house to live she will be living in sin...there will be a lot of firsts if she takes power (voted in)....she refused to go into parliament house until she was voted in by the australian people. (her words)...times they are a changing....One thing is for sure it wouldnt go down too well in "churchy" USA.

Jim Dandy: In the end regardless of who and why .."she did this.. he did that"... a line needs to be drawn. They've been working 18 months to get these talks up.

Bad news for australia.....HUNG Parliament

finals wont be known for a couple days, but looks pretty certain.....first time since ww1....

Bernice: Really? For the first time in such a long time? Interesting… hung Parliament is quite common here. As far I can see, the predictions say that Liberals should take the PM seat though… so it seems you're going to have your favorite politician there…

Artful Dodger: I have always found it interesting that North American liberals are actually not liberals, and on the contrary, they are socialists.

Pedro Martínez: looking at the definition in Wikipedia, you nailed that

Artful Dodger:
> Libs always run things into the ground. Their philosophy is wrong.
> Republicans loose out when they violate their principles of low spending, limited
> government, and deference to the states.

Historically, it was always Republicans who lead massive increases in the deficit and national public debt, usually by giving tax cuts away while increasing massively on defense spending. We can look at the Regan and both Bush administrations for that.

Democrats are more of a mixed bag. Bill Clinton finished his term in office with the first surplus since WW II. Barack Obama is seeing a massive increase in the deficit, mostly due to the bailout for the banks (which in fairness was George W. Bush's last act as president, and was carried over into the new administration). That ill-fated healthcare plan is going to cost a lot, and the only way to take care of that is to take away the tax cuts that the Bush administration gave to the rich.

In reality, both political parties are full of "brilliant" and "expensive" ideas. I see Democrats and Republicans as two sides of the same coin. Both parties represent the interests of monopolies and the corporate elite. The difference being mostly on who they represent. However, deep at heart both parties exist to protect the interests of mega-capitalists and the American corporate elite.

In that sense, to say that the Democrats are socialists is like saying that the Communist Party of the People's Republic of China is capitalist. The US democrats don't even come close to Europe's Social Democrat parties.

Bernice: Definitely wouldn't go well with conservative churches but liberal churches would probably embrace it.

Pedro Martínez: 70 Democrats currently serving in the Congress are members of the Socialist Party. At least they have the guts to put their cards on the table. The other socialist dems are still in the closet.

Übergeek 바둑이: Bill Clinton was one of the few fiscally smart presidents. But was a wasteful spender. Cutting taxes works. But increasing spending does not. Anytime the government spends money, it's usually NOT GOOD for the economy.

Tuesday: Bull Pucky. You don't even watch Beck. And I DO. This statement is a lie. So there.

Tuesday: That may be your experience but it's not mine.

Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat AND a Progressive.

nuff said

Tuesday:

Tuesday:  #10 on Roger Ebert's list, his op-ed piece, seems to allude to something important here.  It has been 10 years and no decision has been made about how the victims should be honored in the space of the Twin Towers.  There have been endless political debates, designs, etc about what should be done here.  There is no space to collectively commemorate the victims of this horrible act.  I think if such a place existed, the intensity of the debate over the mosque would have been lessened, and calmer heads might have prevailed.

Artful Dodger:  Your constant farts here really "crack" me up.

Artful Dodger: That was back before the party's switch around wasn't it? Republican became Democrat n' Democrat became Republican as we know them today.

Ferris Bueller: To me that is the utmost of compliments.

Ferris Bueller:

> It has been 10 years and no decision has been made about how the victims should be honored in the space of the Twin Towers.

I think the real problem is that the Towers sat on one of the choicest pieces of real estate in the world. There were those who expected that the site would be rebuilt with even bigger towers for bankers to make more money. Now they see a memorial site and there is no profit in that.

I think that this is an instance where racism has reared its ugly head behind a mask called "the United States is a Christian nation." It is like saying "X is an Islamic nation and now these Christians want to build a church here." It is all about extremism and prejudice.

I think that the greatest memorial the world could build there is a monument against war. If a lesson should have been learned it is that war and violence beget war and violence. In 2014 we will celebrate 100 years since the start of WW I, what was called "the war to end all wars". I think a memorial commemorating WW I and the tragedy of 911 would be the most appropriate thing. 911 is testament to how the lessons of WW I were never learned. A memorial against war could at least show that some of the lessons have been learned.

(V): I agree, and the right of Israel to exist has to be acknowledged