(V): "Btw... the time to Red Giant is about 5-7 billion years for our star.... when that hits, the Earth is screwed. Granted the death of our sun is a few billion years later, but if we are still around, we have to have flown the nest."

I'm sorry to hear your god is disinterested in this problem. Or too wimpy to do anything about it.

Iamon lyme: Did I say that... No.

Do I presume there is no means for us to survive.... No.

Eggs in nests have a natural ability to be able to leave as they grow.

" because there are few if any other systems in our gallaxy cabable of supporting life... in fact, the chance of finding any within our gallaxy is probably next to zero,"

That is incorrect. The evidence now through the likes of the Kepler telescope is that there are many places we could live in this Galaxy. The evidence is that Mars once did have life, Just it lost it's magnetic field... well, most of it.

Dude... dem boffins are blowing most previously held theories about how rare planets such as ours are.. they are not so rare. The Universe is geared to create the necessary elements we need for physical existence.

(V): "Dude... dem boffins are blowing most previously held theories about how rare planets such as ours are.. they are not so rare."

Theories previously held by who? Scientists in the past believed there might have been life on the moon, based on observations made from looking through telescopes. As time has gone by the odds of there being many inhabitable planets has not increased, it's been decreasing. It's not simply a matter of how close a planet is to a sun and how much water is present.

"The Universe is geared to create the necessary elements we need for physical existence."

The presence of elements needed for life are not uniform throughout the universe. Some areas contain the heaviest elements but few if any of the lighter ones. And some areas have the lighter ones but not enough of the heavier ones. We just happen to live in a system that has the full range of essential elements. And carbon is still the only viable candidate for being a basic element for life, because of the carbon atoms unique ability to build large enough molecules for the wide variety of molecular machines and other structures (including the DNA package) in cells. So you can't just go anywhere in the universe that has enough water and hope to find lots and lots of inhabitable planets. It's much more complicated than that. And BTW, most suns the size of ours burn out much faster than ours will... because our sun has just the right mix of materials to keep it going for more than 2 or 3 billion years.

Iamon lyme: and I wonder who geared it?

Artful Dodger: "and I wonder who geared it?"

These debates always seem to come back to the same question: Is it a "who done it" or a "what done it". Aristotles unmoved mover almost appears to be an afterthought, a sort of work around for overcoming infinite regress. But I don't think that is what Aristotle had in mind. I think the unmoved mover was something to overcome the problem with entropy, because that's all it really does. It can't make an infinite number of past events go away after asserting motion has always existed.


I blew out a brain cell last night, so am waiting for a replacement... the other one still works but I don't want to overtax it.

Iamon lyme: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

done

there, that was easy. I could have saved Ari a lot of time and though energy!

Artful Dodger: "I could have saved Ari a lot of time and thought energy!"

Yeah, but if he hadn't spent all that time and thought energy he would have been out of a job. Besides, if centuries of analysis eventually lead back to "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth", then it's not really a waste of time or energy. If faith is based on evidence and logic then it can't be called "blind" faith.

I wasted some time and energy because I assumed an infinite regression meant traversing the infinite. It was a bone head mistake, but at least I figured out what Ari was actually talking about... well, maybe I figured it out. I think he was saying an infinite regression 'of power' is impossible, so an unmoved mover is needed to keep the motion ball rolling.

Iamon lyme: All I know is I hope I don't experience infinite regression. But I think I'm on my way to a finite one.

Artful Dodger: I think that was the point of not allowing us to live forever. If not for death we could have ended up looking like puddles of goo, with two eyeballs looking up and pleading with God to kill us.

Iamon lyme: We'd run out of room. People would get bored.. dangerous combination.

Iamon lyme: Do not read anything by Origen then. lol

Could be a wall event, where you need to bang your head against one!! :))

(V): "the time to Red Giant is about 5-7 billion years for our star.... when that hits, the Earth is screwed."

Perhaps in that time we will have evolved bigger brains, and sturdier necks for carrying the extra load. With more brain power we might be able to solve the problem of where to go and how to get there. SETI is a good first step toward finding intelligent life somewhere else, so we can apply for residency on a habitable planet. But we can't depend on being welcome just because we find a good place to live. Besides, the odds of finding such a place by sending out intergallactic inquires is very remote, because there are few if any other systems in our gallaxy cabable of supporting life... in fact, the chance of finding any within our gallaxy is probably next to zero, so we need to look at other spiral galaxies for habital zones. There are two other types of galaxies, eliptical and one other (I forgot the name) but niether of those will do because of density problems and the inability of any star to remain in a clear zone with a circular galactic orbit. The circular orbit of our star prevents it from crossing over into one of the two spiral arms we are conveniently located between, in a relatively clear zone of space. The spirals are danger zones for the same reason the central bulk of our gallaxy is a danger zone... too much radiation.

Yep.... we will definitely need bigger brains, no doubt about it.