Fencer: I think it would be a good idea to stick a red "New" next to new tournaments for let say the first 24 hours after it is created. That way if you do visit the tournaments list at least once a day, you can easily see which tournaments are newly created.

emmett: I turned all my javascript options off since my game page went from taking 2-4 seconds to load, down to mostly under 1 second to load.. with an occasional 2 second load - but a lot faster without the javascript options on for me.

Others may not have browser which supports it - like some on WebTV comes to mind

emmett: Well for those that have that Javascript option picked will see that feature - which not everyone has on.

Fencer: That is why I placed my request to have a quick-play game page option since I know it would be hard to have something similar with just .css alone.

Would you like a very useful request like that to also go to the BrainKing design board, or just the .css file related stuff?

AbigailII: Maybe this part of the discussion should go over to the design board, but I'm looking for speed - speed of the page loading. Right now the system has to calculate ratings change on each game page before displaying it. It has to create / figure out the time left for the move on each game page. The system has to look at all past matches between the 2 players, and display the results on each game page. Things that I would think slows the page load time down a little. And I'm new to .css files, so maybe I don't understand it - but if every element has it's own label, and you have a very long .css file saying "don't show this", and "hide this", and "show this here" - wouldn't having to read that .css file and create a custom webpage every time also slow the page load speed down? That is more then lets say having the system create the page without all those things in the first place, taking away the time it takes for the system to create the page in the first place.

Here are 3 feature requests that I have:

1. Quick-play game pages. (This is where all unnecessary information is removed from the game page.) So all the is left is:

Game name
Submit move right under game name to submit without scrolling.
Opponent name
IMPORTANT Game info (like captured pieces, Cube points, etc..)
Game Board
Message for opponent box
notes for self box
2nd submit button
draw/resign/delete links
Link back to main page
Link to switch back to "more info" game page


What is not needed to take loading time:
User Icons
User flags
User ratings
User graph link
User "what are they doing"
user last moved
Rules link
Brainrook.com links
no smileys link
no autosave is disable link
no switch to rich text editor link
no change message area size link
Discussion board links
Tournament info & link
Game ID
Time per move info
public game info
rated game info
layout info
board size info
Weekend day into
Automatic vacation info
User agreement, Brainking staff, etc... links

Having just what is really needed to play games would speed things up.

2. Move number is needed to be displayed on Ice Age Chess. It is stupid to have to show the game notation just for these games so i can see what move a game is on, then have to hide it again when I play something else. MOVE NUMBER IS IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR THIS GAME - IT AFFECT GAME PLAY so it needs to be put near the board (like point total for cubed gammon games)

3. For Dice Poker, I still find it hard to always make sure the very little box is clicked. Is there ANY way that if you click on the dice, it checks the box for the dice? I can't tell you how often I have thought I had a box checked, to only find out opps - I did not.

I think it is set up now when a bug you have a message in has a reply, an e-mail is set (which depending on the e-mail, can easly get into bulk/junk boxes to never be seen)

Why not just send a message to the users Message Box when a bug they have a message in has an update? That way it would be a lot easier for them to follow up on a fixed bug, or if a discussion has started about a bug.

Fencer: Even though this is slightly different then what is being talked about right now, I would love to request (again) a quick submit button above the board - and that is all. Always in the same place.

Then leave a second submit button below the board like normal with the text boxes so if we do need to write something, we can just scroll down and do it like normal.

pattypoo: Um..... unless you are using multiple accounts and got them confused, I did not address that message to you.

It was address to others who have signed up for a tournament with a set time limit, but then after the tournament is going, they are unhappy about it and want to change it for everyone else to make it easier for them. Which of course the easiest solution is to accept that everyone plays different, and the best option is to find what works best for you and not try to change everything to work for only you.

If I somehow made it seem like my reply to someone else was directed towards you, then please accept my apologize - I thought it was clear but possible was not.

CryingLoser: The solution is simple - if you don't like other players taking the time they can in a tournament, play in different tournaments yourself that has time limits that fit your need better.

If I were to join a 7 day tournament because I like to play slow, it would be unfair to punish me by putting it down to 1 day a move because other players in the tournament decided they wanted a faster tournament.

So again, best solution - join tournaments with time limits that best suits your needs and not try to change how others play.

Oh - well what you posted in my 4th column (up-down)

This is my 1st column which includes the pine tree:

My 3rd row on page 7:

My 4th row on page 7 includes the tree you had also. Are you sure the pine tree is not there? It would be strange for it to show up on mine, but not others.

emmett: - those? Page 7 in the pop-up, 3rd row on the left.

emmett: I don't think he got rid of any. I know sometimes when I look for one, I will have to search the pages a few times to find the one I'm looking for (so it is easy to over look)

But I do agree - would be nice if each user could filter out the ones they never use.

pauloaguia: I have a few comments on those arguments

If I use AutoPass, when the game comes back to me it may look very different.

Well then don't use autopass. I think if a player picks to use autopass, they should already know it may not look the same.

It may disrupt the conversation

I think the system should still work even if the opponenet writes something.

For example (NO AUTOPASS), if my opponenet makes a move and writes something - when I log in at 5pm, I will see the message

For example (WITH AUTOPASS), if my opponenet makes a move and writes something - the game comes back to them 5 times since I had to pass 5 times. I think STILL log in at 5pm (The exact same time), and will see the message. (YES - The message is seen at the exact same time, but now the game is 5 moves further then it would have been! Plus been told this is a game site, not a chat site.)


WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE:

If one person wants autopass, let it autopass just on his turn. (The opponenet who chooses to not use autopass can still play out every move.)

Let is work on Fischer Clock Games - The majority of players who play Fischer Clock Games are looking for faster games - so why not let Autopass speed it up also?

Let Autopass still work if there is an in-game message. When an autopass is taken, just include a little note of "Your opponenet had no moves and choose to autopass until they have a move. They will make a move & see any message once they have a move to make." Like I said above, i will still see the note at the same time - just the game can be further along. If the note was about a pass move, then I can just go back and look at it - and reply if needed.

I know I've suggested this before, but now that I've looked at the archived games with the new castle theme, and seeing how the game board can be pushed even further down the page, this suggestions will be needed more then ever!

I would like in settings, and option for "Quick Submit at top of page"

Then after a move is made, this is what I would like to see when the option to submit a move.

Top line (same as now): "Frog Finder (show rules | discuss - 13, 13 (3))"

Next line: "Move and go to....." submit box

At this point, go ahead and have everything like it is now. (Along with the message input box below the board, along with another submit box below that input box)

This way if you are going through a lot of games, the quick submit button will be near the top of the board - always in the same place - so you don't have to scroll down every screen just to then look & find the submit button. And if you want to leave a message, you can still scroll down below the board and type a message.

Anyway, if you are going to change the page design to push the board down even further down the page, a "quick submit" button above the board will be needed

Luke Skywalker: Why not Fischer clock games? Most play Fischer clock games to speed the game up, so why not let autopass help speed the game up also? (Of course there are a few who play Fisher in the hopes to win by timeout - but that brings up a totally different argument of why play if you don't want to win by playing.. but will save that rant for another time.)

Fencer: I think the castle theme looks great - for many people on the web looking for a game site, first impressions can be very important.

Of course every day playing, the castle theme could be too much - the "simple view" you have already created looks great - similar to what is here now with just a few color changes.

Plus for those who would rather having it look more like it does now, I'm sure it will not be long before someone submits a design that will be very close.

Question - can anyone use anyone's submitted site design?

Nirvana: Are you talking about changing the language of the board? Where the language flag will change to what language the board is in?

All sub boards have that option in the edit for the board.

For the MAIN (first) board, it takes the language from what the fellowship is.

Fencer: I checked about 60 seconds before you post - still did not work. Checked 10 seconds after your post, it works.

Fencer: I just tried the "Show ponds created by me" link on the ponds page, and it came back as a blank page.

pgt: I agree also. The only reason I could think that someone would not want their opponent to use autopass is that they are trying to win on a time-out, and just waiting until their opponent goes off-line to make their move. (Which defeats the purpose of playing games why you try to win by no playing games - but whatever.)

I don't see why it would be a problem on Fischer Clock games - I mean if I make a move, and my opponenet's move is auto-passed back to me - I just make another move. I mean what would be the problem? (Other then if someone was trying to win by timeout which again defeats the whole purpose of "playing" games in my opinion)

As for not using autopass if their is an in-game message - I would even be for an option of "use autopass even if there is a message" - I mean I'm going to read the message the next time I visit the game - what does it matter if it is on move 40 or 52 after 12 auto-passes? I still read it at the same time. Maybe a quick note of "Opponent had not move, so autopassed back to you - so they have not read your message yet." [again, option since some may not like that]

I'm not saying mctrivia is trying to get everyones password or anything, but a general warning - BE CAREFULL when you enter things like your username & password on other sites.

Even though it can look 100% legit, and such - there are hundreds of sites across the internet that do the same thing for things like PayPal - just to get important information from you.

I know mctrivia's does a lot of different scripting and such for players on this site, and I'm sure is an honest person and does keep passwords hidden even from himself - but remember it is "user beware / Use are your own risk" - it is not BK's responisblity to keep your password & information safe on sites outside of the BK world.

Again, just so I'm clear - I'm not tring to say anything bad about what mctrivia is doing or make it seem like you can't trust him - just want to make sure users know it can be a risk to use scripts outside of the BK site which require personal information like passwords and such.

mctrivia: I also would love to see a submit button option to appear above the game board - it would save time and make game-play a little quicker.

What I would like to see is an option in settings to have a "quick submit above board" option.

What that could do is place place the Move & Move and go to boxes above the board - with NO text box to write message.

But along with them also being at the top, keep them at the bottom like normal with the text box - so lets say we have the quick submit option to have them above the board, and we have a reason to write a message for this game, we can still scroll down and do that - but if not, we will know exactly where on the screen the move button will be - our mouse will already be positioned there while the page is loading since it is in the same exact place (rather then move - then wait for page to load - then scroll down - then find move button which could not be high or low on the screen depending on how much you scrolled - then finally hitting the move button.)

**edited to add: When I say above game board, I would like to see it right under the game title.

So on a page you would see "Game Type (show rules | discuss - xxx, xxx(x))"
"Submit"
"Submit and go to.."

Then under that, all the normal stuff - game chat, notes, opponenet info, game board, etc...

joshi tm: Good Point - actually the screen & crazy screen should be 2 types which can be added to any of the special setups. So maybe a choice 1a that would let you choose screen & crazy screen in addition to the other "Choice 1" games.

Most of below was written of the top of my head - so I'm sure a little more fine tuning would be needed.

I know this would probable not be easy to program, but I think would be great if it is possible.

I would love to play different combinations of chess - for example, Crazy Screen Chess board setup, played as Dark & Knight Relay. Or Capablanca Random Dice Chess (with of course a few extra numbers on the dice to cover the extra pieces)

Currently there are basically 2 types of Chess games - one with special setup, one with special rules.

So for Mix-n-Match.

First have player pick board type. So choose 1:
Regular Chess, Corner, Fortress, Janus, Embassy, Capablanca Random, Screen, Crazy Screen, Amazon, Fischer Random, Legan, or Grand. (I left out Horde, Maharajah, & Los Alamos - but those might work also)

Second have player pick Game Rules: So choose 1:
Loop, Anti, Extinction, 3 Checks, Dark, Atomic, Cylinder, Berolina, Knight Relay, Ambiguous, Dark, Recycle, or Ice Age

Third - I think there are a few of those rules which would work good doubled up - while others not so much - so third, possible pick a second rule: So choose 1 (in addition to the one before):
Dark, Cylinder, Knight Relay, Recycle, Ice Age, or NONE (just stick with 2nd choice)

Again, probable too much to program - but I think it would solve the issue of not making a many many many new games of variants of variants - but a fun way to come up with interesting combinations for people to play.

**edited because I forgot about Recycle Chess**

mctrivia: I see no reason why player 1 could not see their own results before player 2 moves - BUT I like it how it is now where player 2 DOES NOT see player 1's move until both players move.

As player 2, if I could see player 1's result before I had to guess - that information could change how I guess - that is normally I take the first few moves to figure out the colors before I start to make guesses - but if I see my opponent almost get my code, or worse - has the correct code - I would then start making more wild guesses in the chance of getting lucky. So player 2 knowing what player 1 guesses can effect how player 2 plays.

But I see no harm in player 1 knowing themselves how their guess was.

pauloaguia: I basically leave all my teams that I don't want to play teat challenges on.

My problem was when the last site tournaments came along, I wanted to play on those - joined a team, then found I was in some team matches with other fellowships - some with time controls which I don't like (red/green dot games). Kind of in a no-win situation at that time since I did not want to leave - but did leave as soon as the site team tournaments started.

But would agree that it would be nice if there was some sort of "prefrence" you can choose - maybe an over all "Will play / don't want to play", along with a "Will play vacation, fixed weekend, no days off tournaments choices", along with different time choices - like not playing anything with less then 3 days.

In my fellowships, i try to keep track of what players will play and try to not include players who don't want to play certain time limits and such - but it is very hard to keep up to date and I know many fellowship captains just don't want to put that extra time in.

tinksbell: Plus the advantage to the link on the profile is that is also includes fellowship tournaments you sign up for - which would not be shown in the normal tournament link.

When a tournament goes past it's start time, and does not have enough players - it goes into extra time.

What happens is if the minimum players sign up, the tournament start process will start - BUT if one of those players don't have enough room, they are removed from the tournament and then the tournament is deleted!

Is there a way to put a check in there that if a player is removed from a tournament because they don't have enough space, that the tournament is NOT deleted and just simple put back into the tournament waiting list.

pauloaguia: I don't mind playing the first games being rated - if there is a flaw, it will most likely affect both players. Best thing to do is if players are worried about new games having flaws or bugs is to simply play only unrated/uncounted game themselves.

dresali: Well I think those stats are a little misleading since they also count the games that had the "old" rules - in which black was almost guaranteed a win if they just left the queen for the last. Since the rule changed happened when the game was already released, even games ending now may have been started with the old rules in place.

I'm not sure what the stats are now after the rule change (not sure if Fencer can just get those stats for us) - my guess it is probable closer to 40/60 - with black still having an advantage even when using the queen first - but now has a little more work to get the win. (but that is just a guess)

Jason: To see which stairs have someone you can challenge, go to the Stairs link in the left column, and click on "Show your stairs only"

The ones in BOLD are ones in which you can challenge someone.

Gordon Shumway: I would like an setting so that no one can even invite me to a game. I decline just about 100% of the invites to me because usually I only play tournament games (except for a few new games - which I post in the waiting room).

So if I had an option to say "no game invites", when someone gets ready to invite me to a game, they would not be able to.

grenv: No - I have 300+ games (too many, but hopefully I will get that down soon) - Anyway, I usually play my games in order of time left - so 1 game will be backgammon, next chess, next battleboats, next dice chess, next etc.....

So no, i do not remember my strategy from my previous moves (probable why I'm not a good chess players) - for games like the line games, i will leave myself notes in the game so I know what I'm doing when i have the next 4 moves planed out.

But usually, i'm trying to make my moves as fast as possible to get to the next game - so when a game comes up, my eyes go directly to the game board - and if the game board looks like backgammon - my mind goes into backgammon mode - if the board looks like a chess board - my mind goes into a chess mode. But unless something stops my mind (like a colored border), i will miss what type of chess game I'm playing - and hence with the Extenction chess being a game in which you play completely different from regular chess - and if something isn't there to jump out at me, I end up playing it like regular chess which of course can be bad. (All the other chess games which look like regular chess but with different rules are already OK with different color borders - it is just this one for some reason that is not colored.)

The problem is when the board looks just like another, it is easy to confuse what game you are playing. All other Chess variants which look the same as regular chess but have very different rules are a different color except for 1 - Extinction chess. (which of course the easiest solution is to give it a different border.)

Berolina - redish border
Knight Relay - Dark Green border
Legan - Bluish border
3 checks - light green
Cylinder - greenish
Amazon Chess - Green
Ambiguoues - Blue
Atomic - Dark Blue
Loop - Light Blue
Anti - Red

All the rest either play just like chess (Crazy screen), or have a completly different setup (Maharajah) that you don't need a border since it is easy to tell you are playing a different game.

Extinction Chess looks just like regular chess, but you can't play it like regular chess - you have to play it differently, yet it does not have a different border color.

And it's not about memorizing the colors - seeing a different color for me at least quickly tells me there is something special about the game, which then leads me to look at the game name.

Heck - if it is such a big deal that this one game does not have a color - then lets get rid of the colors for all the Chess games. Of course I'll stop playing those also.

KotDB: I would agree with you that games with the same board, but having different rules needs something like a different color border to make the game 'stand out' and tell you not to play the game like regular chess. Of course I've stopped playing Extinction Chess since when I start playing games, my eyes go strait to the board and don't spend the extra time looking closly at the name of the game - so I end up playing it like regular chess which of course is bad.

Since there is a small amount of players who do not like this game to have a different color, then what Walter Montego said would be a great suggestion.

Make a "chess board color" tab in the settings.

Have 3 options - (1) All boards with same white border, (2) default BK with each board different - having a different color picked for each game (default choice - like current, except all games having different color boarder), or (3) Pick colors for each game below

Then list each game with a drop down box that list 25 colors in which the person can go through each game and click the color they want for each.

Anyway, bottom line in my opinion - if the boards look the same, and the rules are different - there needs to be a different border color for each. To lose a game because you did not know what game you are playing is just stupid - it is a stupid way to lose, and a stupid way to win against someone else. To lose because you got beat in the game you are playing - then that is OK.

In long games of Go, it is hard for me to tell when my opponent passes a move (meaning they are ready to end the game).

Is there any way to get something near the top that say "Opponent passed last move" or something like that.

Czuch Czuckers: I would rather it not be added by default - so it does not force me to keep removing the options.

Normally the options are used by less people then who do not use it - so to default it not being on the list would be better for the majority of the players in my opinion.

dameningen: If you know of someone else who would like to be BIG BOSS, you can let Fencer know and I'm sure he can make the change for you - that way the club will continue with an active BIG BOSS.

joshi tm: I would guess Fencer could make different language of the game - depending on if their are different dictionaries of different languages that Fencer can download and use for free. I believe there are at least a few free English language dictionaries - not sure off hand of other languages, but I'm sure there are some.

I don't think he should "mix" different languages in the game, but I don't see why there can't be Scrabble (English), Scrabble (Czech), etc... (of course not called Scrabble.

talon: here is what Fencer has to say about a word game: Feature requests (Fencer, 2006-06-06 09:21:19)

Cool - I did not know that. I find it a little annoying for the discussion boards (since there is a new message I'll click on them anyway), but I'm always checking on the tournament while playing the game and this feature will allow me to not leave the game page to check. Very cool!

rednaz23: I would second that suggestion.

Of course a way around it is to add them to your friends list and add a note there, or to start a list on your notepad. Not the same, but might be helpful until (or if) Fencer does this suggestion.

grenv: Oh, I think it will work well - I'm just saying that if the chess pieces are not in a standard position, then it's not really dark loop chess - but dark loop random chess.

I think dark loop random chess will work since if you put the captured pieces anywhere, you can see where your opponents pieces are but you don't know which is which.

If it is not "random" and just the standard position is uses, then i would say that pieces can only be placed where you have a line of sight and know there is nothing there.

grenv: Well with rules like that, it would help a little - but in my eyes it is no longer dark loop chess, but dark loop random chess. I think if it's going to be like that, it might as well skip it and just make dark crazy screen chess where each player can organize their own pieces - that way a person does not get stuck with a "bad" setup vs. good setup with the random setup.

Pason69: There is a list of ongoing games here: http://brainking.com/en/Statistics?p=2 - of course it is not ordered like you want, just ordered in most games being played to least. (for others who are interested in looking)

grenv: Maybe there should be the rule that in dark loop chess, you can only place a pieces in a space that you can see is free (not all available free spaces) - since I would think that would give up too much information.

diogenes: I know at one time, Fencer did not like the idea of making variants of variants, but I would agree that a few dark variants of variants would be a great addition. For a chess player like me (Not very good), I always feel I have a better chance at dark chess and would love to see dark cylinder chess, dark knight relay, and dark crazy screen chess.

Dark loop chess would be interesting, along with dark Majarajah Chess - which might give white a little more of a chance to get a "surprise" win.

About the only Chess variants that it would not work too well with is Ambiguous Chess. Los Alamos Chess probable would not work too well since the board is already pretty small.

Fencer could almost double the amount of chess games if he wanted to. But of course right now, Dark Chess is the 47th most popular game so the question would be is it worth making more variants which probable would not top the original?

grenv: I know it's called a bye - but for Fencer to make it easy to program, it might be easier to put an imaginary player into the spot for a second to automatically lose and move the next player on.... plus it may make it easier for others to visualize it.

xmas is soon: Now I would not think it would be too hard to put some sort of by system to work with less people.

lets say it is a 16 player single elimination tournament, and only 12 sign up.

Round 1: 16 players (with 4 of them "ghost" players which randomly get put into the tournament and automaticly give the person who played against them a free win/by into the next round - of course does not count as a won game - just a win into the next round of the tournament. - so 8 players advance.

Round 2: 8 players start, 4 winners

Round 3: 4 players start, 2 winners

Round 4: 2 players start, 1 winner!

So that is why a single elimination tournament needs to be to the power of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, ...) = and does not work with a multiple of 2. (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, ...)

Edited to add: Of course only do this with the 8 & above single elimination tournaments where at least more then 1/2 of the players sign up. So if you set up a 32 player tournament and only 15 sign up, then it should be reduced to a 16 single elimination tournament with 1 "ghost" player to give a free by.