Forum for discussing local and world politics and issues. All views are welcomed. Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics.
All standard guidelines apply to this board, No Flaming, No Taunting, No Foul Language,No sexual innuendos,etc..
As politics can be a volatile subject, please consider how you would feel if your comment were directed toward yourself.
Any post deemed to be in violation of guidelines will be deleted or edited without warning or notification. Any continued misbehavior will result in a ban or hidden status, so please play nice!!!
*"Moderators are here for a reason. If a moderator (or Global Moderator or Fencer) requests that a discussion on a certain subject to cease - for whatever reason - please respect these wishes. Failure to do so may result in being hidden, or banned."
Lista de boletines
No tienes autorización para escribir mensajes en este boletín. Para escribir mensajes en este boletín se require un nivel mínimo de membresía de Brain Peón.
Czuch: What happened to flight AA77, if it did not crash into the Pentagon?
That's a good question. The short answer is, I don't know. That's what a real investigation (such as any criminal investigation) might reveal.
What we do know is that Flight 77 took off at 8:20am from Dulles airport in Washington, D.C., that radio contact was lost at 8:50, and that at 8:56 the transponder went off & the plane disappeared from the radar screen of the Indianapolis air traffic controller. We know that at 9:09 this same controller indicated that a plane may have crashed in Ohio (which VP Cheney went out of his way later on Meet the Press to say didn't happen).
Then at 9:25 (29 minutes after Flight 77 disappeared), the Dulles controller reported a fast-moving plane headed for Washington. The identity of this plane with Flight 77 was not made until later in the day. In fact, one of the air traffic controls at Dulles said, speaking of this new plane, quote: "The speed, the maneuverably, the way he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane."
To claim, as I and others do, that 9/11 was an inside job, does not mean that we assuredly know all details of the plot. Much could no doubt be discovered through independent investigation. What we do know is that the official theory does not conform to the available evidence, physical & circumstantial, across the board, that it simply cannot be true. Thus, it is a coverup. And the evidence to the contrary is very powerful indeed. For example, a mass of evidence indicates that the Twin Towers & WTC-7 were brought down by controlled demolition. But to believe al-Quada sneaked in and did the thousands of man-hours of wiring necessary...well, it beggars belief.
For my part, I do not choose to call anyone a "nut" or "whacko" who seriously believes that a group of Arabs in a cave made a plan, then crossed easily into the U.S. (some of them on the terrorist watch list, some with expired visas), boarded another plane, hijacked it & flew off-course for nearly an hour without being intercepted by the finest Air Force in the world (which had never before, and hasn't since, failed so miserably), then flew unimpeded into Washington air space, right to the heart of our civil-military establishment, and crashed into the unoccupied, newly renovated side of the Pentagon while the five batteries of missiles put in place to protect the Pentagon sat silent. But while I don't criticize those who believe this, I think if they would examine the issue it would be hard to continue believing it. And I think it reasonable to believe there is a better explanation.
The Usurper:"To claim, as I and others do, that 9/11 was an inside job, does not mean that we assuredly know all details"
except for the detail that it was an inside job of which you lack all known details. So you come to the table with an a priori assumption. At least those that you quote do. You claim to be interested only in the "facts" and an "honest investigation." Why investigate? Seems you have it sewn up. It was an inside job. Now if you can just find the evidence to support your "facts."
And BTW, Arabs don't live in caves. That's a favored tactic of the fanatics on the conspiracy as well, paint the Arabs to look like a bunch of dolts and that ought to put doubt in the people's minds that they could have pulled it off.
Ummmm, didn't the left always claim that Bush is a dolt? He can't complete a sentence and isn't too bright? And yet he was able to be at the head of such an elaborate hoax? sure.
Artful Dodger: My conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job is certainly not a priori. It may be wrong, but I didn't come to the table with it. It wasn't an assumption I made at the beginning of my investigation (which wouldn't really have been an investigation then, but rather an effort to reinforce my a priori position). I know my position appears to be an a priori one to you, perhaps, since I did come HERE with that conclusion already firmly entrenched in my mind. But that DOESN'T mean my mind can't be changed or that my position is unalterable. Or that I am unwilling to look farther, even to reassess my views in the light of new (or better-interpreted) evidence.
As a matter of fact, I did not believe 9/11 was an inside job when I began my investigation. It just seemed to too convenient (i.e., Bush might capitalize on 9/11, but not be complicit in it). And I didn't really plan to investigate.
One night I decided to take a look to see how the other half lives. I heard something about those who believe 9/11 to be Made in the U.S.A., and I decided to take a quick look. What I found, frankly, was surprising, as I've already expressed. So I felt I needed to investigate further. When I started, for example, I knew next to nothing about false-flag operations, or the history of them. We all have these vague ideas, but few spend the time to really look into things, etc.
Yes, I do accuse Bush of treason. Not only Bush, but my entire government, Democrats & Republicans, anyone who voted for the Patriot Act II, for example (it guts the Bill of Rights) or the Military Commissions Act of 2006...certainly anyone who waged war on false pretexts or was complicit in 9/11, as the Bush administration was at the time and many others are (Democrat & Republican) after the fact.
(ocultar) Si pinchas con el ratón sobre el nombre de una persona y luego picas en Partidas finalizadas entonces tendrás una lista de las partidas que ha completado. Una vez hecho esto, pincha sobre el nombre de un tipo de juego para obtener un resumen de todos estas partidas de este tipo y si pinchas sobre una de ellas podrás visualizar y analizarla. (Servant) (mostrar todos los consejos)