Czuch:  Obama will get something but this whole thing will undo his Presidency.  It's in the cards. ;)

Artful Dodger:  That's all the Republicans care about is destroying this presidency.  Well its not going to work!

Ferris Bueller: Well by the standing ovations, I recon both sides in congress liked what he said. And by talk with everyone in congress and the senate, it looks like a plan has been formed.

As he said.. build on what works and reform what doesn't. Common sense really

(V): You mean u missed one side of the aisle sitting on their hands or holding up papers through most of the speech.  In addition one idiot congressman yelled out "You lie!" during the Pres. speech.  In case you didn't notice,  those were the Republicans. They only care about destroying this president.

If President Obama wants to pass reform, he will have to do it w/ Democrats only, & they are not lockstep.

Ferris Bueller: I've not sat through all of it yet.. bit early before I have my second cuppa

You'll always get idiots in all parties. Blinkered people that choose ideology over what needs to be done. From what I gather Obama has listened to his party as well as the Republicans... those that want to work with him anyway.

Well one thing can be said no matter what.. He's being a better Pres then Bush because he is listening. Not to just the parties but those (such as doc's and nurses) who have working knowledge of the problems.

(V): I agree with you about Obama's approach to listen to all sides, but the problem is that the opposition doesn't give a rat's ass about listening to him.  They would rather listen to radical right talk shows & call him names than do what is right for the country.  The pres. now needs to spell out his plan for reform like he did tonight & stick by it.  The Republicans have had their fun.  It's time for the Democrats to govern.

Ferris Bueller: The Republicans have had their fun. It's time for the Democrats to govern.

Problem is, you can tell from his speech, that even Bam has some concerns about the direction from the "progresives" want to take on this issue... like he is really hoping that congress will pull this thing a bit more to the right, but that the "progressive elites" like Pelosi wont let that happen... even Bam seems to understand that a full blown soialist agenda is not what America needs.... but too many in the democrat party are simply full blown socialists

Ferris Bueller: As I read around a bit, it seems like "forced unionization" is one of the many republican concerns here, something that the dems need to compromise on somehow.... its not that we are against health care reform, its just that we want it to be responsible, and not just done to get it done.....

its one of those, be careful what you wish for, kind of things, reform health care, yes, have mounds of unplanned consequences because it got rushed through by socialist elites, NO!

Ferris Bueller: The man had done nothing but ram policies down the American's throat without anybody knowing what they are, he has listened to NOBODY, He had placed lawbreakers, hypocrites,socialists and bigots throughout the government, he had exploded the deficit and debt to a breaking point and wants to go further, that is what the republicans are done with,

Vikings: Absolute rubbish. He was ELECTED by the people of America on the basis of his policies as stated before the election. Is there a problem with Democrats being elected? You don't want a one party dictatorship do you.. Moaning about a certain type of socialist, yet at the same time wanting the same.... Is that what you want???

Also.. Pres Bush ran up the budget deficit.. you didn't complain then.

(V): he was elected on the promise of giving everybody who made under 250,000 a tax cut, in fact all he had done is run up the deficit 4 times in 6 months as to what bush did and he had a war, and now that he has rammed this foolish spending down everybody's throat the democrats themselves are divided about him,check the polls, he has the second fastest rate of fallen poll numbers since they have been recorded, he will go down in history as the best presidential failure.
If a democrat is elected then so be it but don't take that as a blank check to do whatever without being questioned. democrats and independents are waking up now

Vikings: So it's allright you being a Republican that Bush had a blank cheque book, and Obama cannot make everything cheaper for you guys to live and have health cover? Change takes time, supporting the economy takes money. If you think he's wrong, that's ok.... but he won the election saying he'd support America, and isn't it better people stay in work rather than lose their houses and jobs??
The phrase NIMBY comes to mind. it was invented after conservatives over here said we need expansion, as long as it's Not In My Back Yard.

And don't try and tell me healthcare was not a MAJOR factor in his campaign..

"A key feature of Obama's election manifesto was to address the unavoidable issue of America's growing uninsured population, making healthcare affordable to all US citizens, especially for children, and regardless of pre-existing conditions Currently, the federal government provides health coverage through Medicare (for the elderly), Medicaid (for poor families and the children of families that do not qualify for Medicaid) and military programs. US healthcare expenditure rose rapidly from 9.1% in 1980 to 17% in 2008, and this rise is expected to continue over the next decade, outpacing income and inflation. As such, healthcare expenditure will account for 20% of the gross domestic product, or $4.3 trillion, by 2017 if left unchecked."

What is your problem in having a cheaper healthcare system, that covers you better??

..... and as for the video.. No org is perfect, you get bad apples and idiots everywhere.

Wasn't Acorn around when Bush was in power??

(V): Wasn't Acorn around when Bush was in power??

Bush wasn't their lawyer

What is your problem in having a cheaper healthcare system, that covers you better??

It will be cheaper - that is a lie
It won't cover illegal aliens-that is a lie
there won't be death pannels-that is a lie
services won't be cut-that is a lie
it won't add to the deficit-that is a lie
you can keep your private insurance-that is a lie


you like your health service then you keep it, it is amazing how you want everybody on it but you know you have your issues about your own healthcare , and everything that everybody points out to you is wrong with it is either "a few bad apples" or "were fighting for it". as for me when my baby was born with holes in his heart and not breathing, the specialist were in the room for him before he was completely out of the birth cannel,
nobody had to check a computor data base to see what they could do and my PRIVATE insurance took care of it all
you keep your crap

Vikings: I thought Acorn was another government people.. It's lawyers.. well... enough said.

And as for the lies... where is your proof? All I hear is knee jerk scaremongering, just like McCarthy did!!

And wasn't that a wonderful display of justice!!

(V): Your ignorance on American politics is showing again.  You are 100% wrong, once again.  You're so uninformed it's not even worth arguing over.  It's enough to know that you are basically clueless on American politics and clearly you don't understand the US mindset.

Artful Dodger: How about a rotation of discussion of the politics of countries around the world?

I nominate Sweden as the 1st on the rotation, those Swedes have a very interesting system

Jim Dandy: unless it is ENglish or American there wouldnt be any knowledge of other countries politics, and as Artful Dodger told someone on here their ignorance of american politics was showing etc etc....it would be the same with other countries unless you could get someone from Sweden it would all be the usual CCp that we seem to get now.

Bernice: It's a shame, this site has such a diverse population,but the political focus is so narrow

Jim Dandy: I have no interest in discussing Swedish politics.  But if you can find others that want to discuss it with you, suits me. 

Artful Dodger: I know you're up to it.I think it would be interesting to see how our political leanings translate to other countries environments

Jim Dandy:  Well, someone else will have to start it  ;)

Artful Dodger: It would help us think outside the box,and remove homefield advantage for some

Jim Dandy:  I like home field advantage.

Artful Dodger: Who doesn't,but their are alot of intelligent political minds here.I would find it interesting how they read scenarios other than the ones they have become so familiar with.Folks who discuss the American political situation have to do research in order do be armed with valid points.I wonder if Americans are willing to also research international political situations and lend their opinions?

I'm not trying to cause trouble,I just find the topics here seem to always revolve around the USA,while the rest of the world spins round spins round

Jim Dandy:  With google, research is a click away.  Oh and Fox has a great search database too. ;p)

Now all we need is a topic. 

Artful Dodger: what would we do without FOX

Jim Dandy:  Without Fox we wouldn't have leaned the truth about Acorn because the other networks ignored the story.  Now it looks like the Census bureau has severed all ties with that corrupt organization.  It will all unravel for them soon enough, thanks to Fox. 

Also with Fox, we couldn't see Barney Frank and O'Reilly have a shouting match or see Glen Beck cry.  And all them smart blonds on Fox....Megan Kelly especially.  lol  

Artful Dodger: I would pay money to see Glen Beck and Barney Frank do a Vegas act together, or maybe a sitcom

Jim Dandy: Cool.. learning new things is fun.

I second Sweden!!

Jim Dandy:  Could you share what is it that you find interesting about the Swedish system?  Perhaps we could go from there.

V:  Like all Presidents, Obama was elected because people like him personally and like the policies he outlines.  However, Obama was elected on more myth than on substance.  He NEVER fully defined his presidency.  Contrary to your assertion, Obama NEVER clearly stated his policies.  And he certainly NEVER outlined his plan for health care.  Obama is the master of ambiguity.   He still hasn't clearly defined his health care plan.  Even members of his own party have different ideas.   For example, Obama says that the goal is NOT a single payer system.  But key democrats say that a government option IS THE LOGICAL STEPPING STONE to a single payer system.   He did not campaign on the single payer option.  In fact, Obama campaigned as a centrist.  He's governing to the left -farther left than his centrist democratic colleagues.  So in fact, obama  was NOT ELECTED by the people of America on the basis of his policies as stated before the election.

Artful Dodger: His speech seemed to clearly OUTLINE his plans for the healthcare system.. He clearly stated that he would be tackling the healthcare system before he was elected.

A certain amount of problems that ALL politicians face before being elected is being able to have full access to the government depts.

Did you listen to his speech in full?

"But key democrats say that a government option IS THE LOGICAL STEPPING STONE to a single payer system."

All politicians are entitled to their opinion... but they are not the CEO. Like that Conservative MEP getting dosh spouting about the NHS.. His CEO of the Conservative party here in the UK totally rejects his opinion as being based on fact.

So in fact.. he was elected on the outline of his plans, such is normal politics that they need development, as he has been doing consulting with people from left, right and centre which can only be done after getting into office!!

This is just the way things work in government, most democratic societies work this way.

(V): and Obama clearly stated in the past that when a government option would be instated that the private insurance would be put out of business in time, therefore he LIED to the people in his speach.

Vikings: And they will unless they get competitive, stop cheating customers, stop cancelling insurances over things like "acne", stop defrauding the USA taxpayer.

There will be a shake up of the private business industry, that you'll get better cheaper insurance is a bad thing?? Or do you like over paying???

(V): you missed the point, HE LIED is the point.

And by the way can you point out anywhere he has submitted any plan or bill. no you can't because he hasn't. His entire speech was a trial balloon and that's it

Vikings: I think you need to listen to his speech.. I'm concerned that you seemed to have missed alot of what he said.

It wasn't a trial ballon, that was very clear.

But if you do listen to it (or again).. just listen.

(V): Where's his plan? the whole thing was lies and balloons, HE HAS SUBMITTED NOTHING

YOU CAN'T PRODUCE WHERE HIS PLAN IS BECAUSE HE HAS NOT SUMMIT ED ONE

Vikings: Sigh... listen to his speech, it's kinda looking like you are just objecting out of Republican loyalty and copying objections from right wing webs.

Because he was very clear in his speech over plans.

Now, if you have any actual proof he lied. I (as we do in the UK) expect to see evidence in the form of what he said (then and now).. any links you've used (so I can see the whole of what is said on the site).

Basically prove it by his words and by showing how he has differed from the normal run of politics and how governments and policy setting and enactment works.

Simplesss!!

(V):  Yes I listened to his speech.  And keep in mind that he's been in office more than 200 days.  More than enough time to have already clearly outlined his plan.  He still hasn't.  He hasn't outlined how it's actually going to be paid for or how it will look logistically.  He speaks in sound bites.  A speech is fine, but there IS NO WRITTEN PLAN to examine.   Obama wants to build the airplane after it's taken off.

Artful Dodger: Ohhhhhhh yes he did. Or did you miss the bit about premiums paying for it??

And as for sound bites. THAT COULD BE SAID OF ANY POLITICIAN in the last 50-100 years in any country seeking to be the leader.

Please... I see nothing in any posts today that speaks, explains or debates any point!!

(V):"So in fact.. he was elected on the outline of his plans,"

You are wrong once again.  He did NOT have any such plan in place when campaigning.  Just typical election sound bites.  

Vikings:  What is the basis for making such sweeping conclusions about Obama?  Where do you get your information?

Ferris Bueller: your kidding

Ferris Bueller: It's basically sour grapes. I think I saw McCain even giving a thumbs up to Obama, over certain items he knew needed to be sorted. The health firms have been committing daylight robbery and people in the USA support that, companies basically causing the deaths and pain of USA people, and those hardliner righties support it.

Not nice to think that some Americans do not give a damn that fellow Americans are dying and suffering because of profit making.

(V):  Ummmm, standing ovations?   Did you not see that half the room wasn't standing?   The left stood up at every turn.   Stupid little puppets.

Ferris Bueller: The Republicans aren't destroying this president.  He's doing that all by himself.  The polls show it all.