Tuesday:Although "fear" has been overused as a tool in recent years, it's nothing new.The LBJ daisy ad is thought by many to have won him the election back in the 60's

Tuesday: Yes,I was going to give the utube link, but I didn't think it was allowed

Jim Dandy:  I doubt that won LBJ the election solely, but it may have contributed to the landslide.  Barry Goldwater, his Republican opponent, advocated using nukes on Vietnam.  So, Johnson's people used the "Daisy" ad to hang the "armegedon" tag on Goldwater.

Ferris Bueller: I'd heard it was a very very effective ad,but no,saying it won him the election was probably an overstatement.The fact it is still a popular refrence does say something though in regards to it's impact on political advertising

Artful Dodger: WIKIPEDIA:

"The term ['socialized medicine'] was popularized by a public relations firm working for the American Medical Association in 1947 to disparage President Truman's proposal for a national health care system. It was a label, at the dawn of the cold war, meant to suggest that anybody advocating universal access to health care must be a communist. And the phrase has retained its political power for six decades."

Jim Dandy:  The "Socialist" tag was also used as an attack on FDR for Social Security & LBJ for his support of Medicare. 

Artful Dodger: The whole concept of group insurance uses the same "socialist" concept that is being used as the boogyman.The big insurance companies are laughing at the people doing their bidding so that they can post record profits, the jokes on the people

Jim Dandy:   I frankly don't care if its "Socialism" or not.  Health reform is the right thing to do to provide proper safety nets for our citizens today & stop the bleeding of spiraling HC cost.  If that is "Socialism", I guess happy to associate with it.  SS was the right thing to do.  Only people with extreme Libertarian views want to abandon SS today.  Being called a Socialist is not going to change my views, but, it does for a lot of people in this country.

Ferris Bueller: But that was only because of the cold war and the likes of MaCarthyism and "duck and cover"..

.. Guess the fact that the USA having enough WMD's to kill the world several times over if they launched just didn't register on the scare meter in the US....

Reagan got it after watching "The Day After".

Ferris Bueller: Thing is... we have a Conservative party and they are all for our NHS, the current leader of the party praises what the NHS did for him and his family.

This right wing attitude of "SoCiAliSm is bad and anti American" is nuts. Using it to justify allowing harm, fraud and a crazy system with more knots in it than a 1000 foot long rope ladder is not democratic.

Artful Dodger: So you're basically saying,you don't mind being ripped of, as long as it's done by the private sector

Artful Dodger: Which type?

And you do seem to be saying that you don't mind being ripped off by business. It's a crinimal offense over here!! Trading standards being as they are part of the consumer system. ;)

Artful Dodger: Dude, why does it always end up getting into personal jabs with you?

Artful Dodger: Don't envy, old man. There is still the Third Age University for you to go too!

Artful Dodger: My point was that there are those in business and in government who can and do rip joe public off. You hark on about government like no other organisation apart from government has corruption or abuse joe public.

I've seen government, business and charities who have been caught red handed with their hands in the coffers.

You point out that your current medical system is not right.. well then, it is the private businesses at the moment who are ripping the whole of the USA off. To say "we cannot use a government run system because it is socialist" is at best a loose use of the word socialist and IMHO a very strained stereotype of "better dead than red" old cold war rubbish.

Artful Dodger: I'm sorry Art, but I like to balanced. The attitude you give off when sniping at Obama and anything not Republican or American Conservative is that everyone else has horns and your 'guys' have halo's and are at the right hand of the I AM.

That Obama and liberal minded people invented fraud....

.... Very old British records of army spending show kings in the past concerned over how each penny is spent, long before socialism (apart from some talk by some guy called Jesus and others of his ilk) was ever invented as an economic concept.

I guess the merchants back then liked profit!!

Artful Dodger: I can back up from your posts that you hark on about government fraud than any other type, anyone can see that!! ;)

I can back up from your posts that you think a government based health system is akin to having your feet licked by sheep (an old toture system) .. yet I can also say that a government based system is more accountable to joe public than your current health companies are. Which is something you need in the USA.

I can also say that a recent case of a paramedic denying to resusitate (sp) a man in the UK because he was by opinion... thought to be too fat is a crime. In the USA I've heard people denied treatment over stupid reasons such as "you didn't tick a box".

I know our NHS is not perfect, but as always the option to have private healthcare from national companies is available to those who wish to pay for it. As I said national.. no county to county rubbish... state to state to those in the USA.

Greed is a human thing, one of the seven deadly sins ain't it ;)

(V): Name one American government system other than the military that is run efficiently

Vikings: The FBI have pretty good record, NASA went to the moon. Your police works, taxes seem to be collected.

.. depends on what you classify as efficient. With respect in employment about 95% is efficient.

How are your bank's bonuses this year?

(V): well, lets answer these, shall we
The FBI, do you remember a thing called 9-11, the FBI and other law agencies refused to share information and I don't think I have to remind you what happened, real efficient
NASA, just this week they have scrapped the moon missions, but they are not scrapping the money that has been appropriated for it, now the head of NASA is in bed with the global warming bunkist.
police, well that is a local issue not a federal issue
taxes, funny how you seem to forget that many of the administration have evaded paying their taxes including the secretary of the Treasury, oh yea , have you ever tried reading a tax code

I am still waiting for a legitimate answer

Vikings: Let me add that the justice system is at the very bottom of the list of the ineffective U.S. “government-run” systems.

Pedro Martínez: agreed, especially when it comes to federal judges

Vikings: Why did the Bin Laden family leave the USA? How many cases of corporate manslaughter have been filed against USA companies.

Nasa didn't scrap the moon flights, Obama did to save money. The current planned system was a joke and pre dates the current admin, they stopped a farce. Certain drug companies have issued false claims and made billions from drugs that don't work or unsafe.. how, by bombarding the government depts with two much information or supressing facts.

.. That's a world wide issue and has in the USA alone led to a case of over 10,000 people suing the company over diabetes caused by a prescribed drug.

The tobacco companies knew pre 70's of the cancer risk due to tobacco smoking, etc. .. I've seen the files personally due to a job I did relating to a UK class action.

Taxes, everyone tries to evade that. How many billions in off shore accounts.

1000's of UK building companies got caught fixing prices for projects all around the UK. The ripped off clients, were public, private and charities.

I hear Medicare and aid in the USA are bankrupt due to charges made by private hospitals and doc's that are way over the top. Is there any truth in this?

As for social networks.. Don't really use facebook and the likes!!

And how much (you did not answer) are your bank bonuses this year. I hear all the banks are crying "if we don't pay out billions in bonuses the eggheads will leave and join other companies."

... Madoff.

(V): Uhm, I.m still waiting for that well run government system, instead of you changing the point

Vikings: I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you consider efficient, I'm still waiting for you to report on your bank's and their bonuses.

But hey... Republicans here seem to be above such honesty and perspective. Hence my comparison of private business and government, both run by humans. as I don't know your personal view on what is considered well run!

btw.. those prisoners in the USA jails who make for the USA military such things as body armour and battle helmets.... how is the equipment holding up?

From a British point of view I can see how you guys from the USA might have problems with perspectivity and relativity, after all... during the Northern ireland war (involving terrorists) many private people in the USA gave money which ended up paying for weapons that killed civilians over here as well as soldiers and police.

After 9/11, right wingers moaned about the French, who supplied info on another terrorist attack attempt which with the help of the Canadians stopped said attempt. Just because they did not agree with Bush.

(V): I also noticed how you steered away from social network systems

Artful Dodger: Art.... are you trying to tell me you like government health after all? Have you been in denial????

As for you lies, etc about various parties and their members. No side is clean and due to that. No side can try and claim the moral high ground.