Artful Dodger: No, not attacks, but reminders of how thinking regarding population control can go wrong, especially when you consider a group inferior to you. It's what kept the cold war going for years and even now creates death and destruction such as the middle east business, such as our NI terrorist war.

And I'm not complaining... but on the opposite side, can the references to what liberals are be kept under check?

(V): Or attacks put in the form of reminders.  I don't mind a discussion on repressive government policies that include many examples, but to take the current discussion and label one side "hitlerish" will be considered, at least by this moderator, a personal attack.  I've read those references and still have no specific idea as to what the "hitlerish" nonsense was referencing.  But if the posters had instead dealt in specifics, more would be gained. 

Artful Dodger: Not the side, just some of the ideas. More current examples would be segregation such as in the early part of the 20th century in America and by the South African white government. No-one is disputing that there is a problem with many families due to various reasons, and no-one is denying that a fix (even our NSPCC charity adverts) is needed, a stop to a cycle of bad ideas and bad life education that has been a problem since mankind started to have families.

... But no quick fixes will work. There is no magic wand here, but hard work and dedication to breaking a cycle that thankfully naturally is dying off on it's own, but we can just speed it up.

Someone in the know compared such problems to having to take down a wall in a place surrounded by glass houses. right correct informed wise intelligent thinking will lead to an eventual solution, not punishment for just having a bad upbringing.

(V): We can hope to diminish problems, but we will never eradicate them.  We will never wipe poverty out.  We will always have the poor.  We can diminish their numbers through opportunity and education, but the poor will always be among us.  There is no quick fix, as you say.  There is no permanent fix either.  Neither is there a fix that will make "all things right."  Sweden's socialism has been failing for years.  It's not gotten better, it's gotten worse.  And they are leaning towards a market-oriented model and leaning away from their socialist beginnings.  Personal responsibility is the number one factor in getting ahead.  Take personal responsibility and life will deal you a better hand.  And play the hand you get, don't complain about not getting a full house.  Someone else has nothing even when you have just a pair of 2's.  Work hard, complain less, be fair, look out for others.  Don't expect handouts and don't give them to people that won't help themselves.  Put your money towards more noble causes.

Artful Dodger: ..... And if someone has been 'made' that for them to take responsibility is impossible. I'm afraid it's an offshoot of western philosophy Blame, blame, blame.

The Eastern style is better, fix the problem and not the blame, find out what's gone wrong and fix it.

.... anyway, how are you going to fix those who's ability to take responsibility is either eradicated or so far diminished that they are incapable of taking responsibility? They blame the government, the opposition, x, y, z!!