(V):   I totally agree.  They have squandered the bailout money too.  What  a waste.  And once again, the little guy is paying for it all. 

Artful Dodger: I somewhat disagree, first of all these banks were forced to make bad loans and then were forced to take bailout money, they were given the money no strings attached, the government wanted them to make more loans but instead they wisely invested it, just like most people would do with a windfall.
secondly, They are being demonized for doing exactly what the government does, frivolously spending money, when the government does it, it does nothing for the economy (ie. wasted fuel for nancy peloci's private plane rides home every weekend), when the banks do it, it puts money back into the economy(ie, buying jets that create jobs)
until the government stops wasting money, I won't complain how corporations spend money

Vikings: I love this point!


Bam gets all hot under the collor about these executive bonuses, but I see he turned a blind eye on all the pork he has signed already! Not to mention the raises they all happily voted for themselves....

I am almost rady to join Usurper, and hold a peoples revolt against this governemnt of ours!

Czuch: That's what Glenn Beck is slowly starting to organize

Czuch: "I am almost rady to join Usurper, and hold a peoples revolt against this governemnt of ours!"

I don't advocate taking up arms against my government, which would require more stupidity than bravery. I don't even advocate violating unjust laws, unless push comes to shove. I mean, if they make a law saying I have to shoot my dog, it is time to break the law. But if they make a law saying I have to wear a seat-belt, I'll do it, whether I agree with it or not.

Intelligent "Revolt" requires a real recognition of the dangers we face as a nation & world, and an examination of our own willingness to stand up and be counted for the long haul. It requires a strategy with a true possibility for eventual success. It isn't easy to come up with that kind of strategy.

The best I've seen so far can be found here:

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=strategy&refpage=membership

This is Freedom Force. The author of this strategy supports Ron Paul and is a Libertarian who stands for Individualism, not Collectivism.

Vikings:hmmm, maybe.  But not all banks went to the extremes that some banks did.  And they weren't  forced to insure these bad loans like they did.  When the loans went sour, the insurer was liable and of course, they couldn't  pay.  It's a huge mess and I agree that the government screwed up big time.  But the "fat cats" also messed up and here they are almost out of money, so they get help from the govt and what do they do?  They give the fat cats millions in bonus money.  That stinks more than a pig farm! 

Artful Dodger: I agree with you absolutely on this issue.

Artful Dodger: They give the fat cats millions in bonus money. That stinks more than a pig farm!

If that is true, then the federal government is the pig farm!

Vikings: Nope, I disagree on that. Seeing as we've had alot of incidents over here regarding banks, and some inquiries have been made.. and some whistle blowers have blown.

Much of the banks mess is due to their greed and recklessness. Eg.. one of the banks we've had to save over here was due to it ignoring warnings from it's own risk assessment team..... they even bought a bank (or part of) without having a full accounts statement from them.

As for government corruption... that's why need revolution, and in some form it is happening... at least over here thanks to the freedom of information act.

Btw.. one building company went broke yesterday... didn't help that they bought a ruby worth over 10 million pounds just two years ago... No news over if they will sell it to bail out the company, seeing as the business is only short £2 million (approx) technically looking at it is owed £2 million from work done.

(V): well the banks over here were forced to give bad loans, first the door was left wide open by the senate that set it up for the banks to make these loans then the larger banks that are now getting the bailouts were sued by the likes of ACORN forcing them to give these loans. Small banks were not targeted by these groups and therefore did not do business this way and are not in trouble. (I actually had a talk with my bank manager over this)

Vikings: So who started this 'rule' and why was it not spotted that it wasn't working and corrected? And that ACORN is a community program oriented program... How come the banks couldn't just prove their case that bad loans are bad loans?

"The banking industry made a practice of talking people into buying homes they couldn’t afford." I read because of ACORN... I don't get how a bank can be forced into making a bad loan. I'd fight anyone if I was in charge of a bank against such 'rules'.

I goto my MP, my Government, my Prime Minister... I'd go on TV, interviews for paper and radio....

But over here, it was the banks fault. And not all problems in America are due 'rules'... $50 billion dollar frauds don't help.

(V): Now see.. you scare me at first.. then you come out with Wit.. I must say boy!! I agree with you 100%..

Our people out here in the West.. or most of America get by on the plastic.. I don't favor them myself.. I learned from my father that you can't afford what you can't pay for.. anyways.. back to my original thought.. 10 years ago.. a young couple who just bought the house across the street from me.. have two dear children and two brand new costly vehicles.. such as a full sized truck and a suburban.. I just wonder what their loans looked like.. scary thought.. even more so then your mask..

ScarletRose: Plastic sucks. It's best to stick to a debit card.

The mask is from the film "V for Vendetta"... It's worth a watch if you can, it's plot is based on what would happen if a government became a law onto itself and the leader of it is a fascist dictator hiding behind the church.

(V): I use debit too.. I travel too much and anymore they don't take cash or checks at hotels..
we did get a loan 2 years back or 1 1/2 for the Trailblazer we bought for my usage.. but, I stuck it out with build your own used for too long.. it made sense to get something more dependable..

I shall have to check into that movie.. I could use a good spark for convo..

As for housing prices.. Geez Louise!! I sometimes will catch those shows on Discover or similar which have House Hunters and a few that I can't quite think of the name.. regardless to my amazement these homes they are looking to buy for a first time buyer are sitting at 330 G's plus.. 1stly.. where are these jobs that those peeps are working at which pay that great to afford such a debt.. and 2ndly, is this what peeps actually pay outside Wyoming?? LOL For what these people buy with 3-400,000.00 Can buy a beautiful ranch out here.. with land!!

ScarletRose: It's the same problem over here, thanks to a period when house prices and the selling rules were abused, house prices increased to the point where your average hard working Joe can't afford a decent house, or has taken out a stupid mortgage which is now leaving many in the state where their house could be repossessed. And thanks to negative equity through house prices dropping, they are looking at still being burden by a big debt.

That's why the call for more social housing over here is so big. It would have been sorted some years back but dear ol' Maggie Thatchers government stopped councils from reinvesting money gained from the selling of council properties to long term tenants from being put into building schemes.

Yet, one good thing is now there is a scheme in social housing where people can part rent and part buy their properties. Giving them a reasonable start into the housing system without the high mortgages.

(V): "The banking industry made a practice of talking people into buying homes they couldn't afford."

Doesnt sound right to me either... as far as i know, banks arent even involved much until a person has picked out a home to buy. Except to get pre approved, as far as I know, its usually the people trying to tell the banks that they can afford more house than is really true. So banks are like, sure you want a loan for this house without documentation, okay, pay us a higher fee and higher closing costs and a higher rate and we will do it!

Fine for many, and okay if housing prices are going straight up, but if you have a loan default and the market will not recoup the cost of the home in a sale.. well thats a problem, not to mention some of the appraisers were also jacking the appraisal price up to meet the loan standards as well.

Funny how many times the house asking price and loan amount is something like 200k, and amazing enough, the appraisal comes in at that exact amount! Again, ok when house prices are on the rise, but not so good when they arent and people end up upside down on their house loans.


anyway... what is the solution? Can anything really be done at all? Should we make it not possible to be a bit more creative when prices are on the rise and the economy is good, just to offset when things go south? I am not sure I can buy into that either!

I think it is s symptom of simply the way things are, and too bad so sad....

I know people who were building houses and selling them for a profit before they had even begun construction and even some sold again for a profit when it was being built. Well, if you choose to play that game fine, but those things never last forever, and dont come complaining to me when things go south and you cant even find a buyer years after the construction is complete! Its just the way of the world, all this knee jerk reaction every time we hit a bump in the road, doesnt make any sense to me. Get over it already.. there will always be highs and lows, get over it and move on already.

Czuch: It's not a bump. We are looking at the possibility of a worldwide recession... The IMF is predicting global growth to fall below zero this year.

As a dude there says "...the worst performance in most of our lifetimes..."

(V): The sub prime loans began under Carter but flourished under clinton

Vikings: And no-one thought to question such a policy on both sides of the political spectrum??? That's what gets me. If all your govs since Carter had been Democrats then I could see a point, but no-one on the Republican side either saw or challenged the 'rules' when in power.

... Strange

But there again, I've seen on this side of the Atlantic the same happen. One side says 'X' is a bad idea but when the get into power they don't change it!!

... Strange world we have.

Artful Dodger: I also agree that the money has been squandered. I see (V)'s point, that the business sector must be accountable. But I also see Viking's point, that the government leaders must be accountable. My perspective is that we are looking essentially at a partnership. These business leaders fund the politicians & offer them jobs upon leaving office. While in office, these politicians serve those who put them there. You and I, the voters, are forced to choose between "picked" candidates...not ones we we really want, but ones put forward & funded by the business men. I hope we can all agree that, whatever one chooses to call this process, it is neither Capitalist nor Representative.