(V): But the point still arises... why make a physically aggressive attack on a man with his hand in his pockets?


What a bleeder you are

The police are out there day after day, placing themselves in all kinds of dangerous situations, yours dont even carry guns do they?

Do you really think it is okay for someone to disobey a police command, and then simply turn with his hands in his pockets, and that makes him all of a sudden harmless?

People need to accept that if they willingly put themselves in a situation where they are confronted by the police, for whatever reason, then they have to accept some chance of injury, or other mishap!

To me it is the same sympathy for one of the Guantanamo inmates.... who would have never ended up there in the first place if they hadnt intentionally inserted themselves where they had no business to be

Bottom line.... you dont hear of anyone getting roughed up by the police for staying at home tending to their families

Czuch: Don't talk about something when you have not watched the video. The guy was on his way home from work, he was harmless.

And our police can carry guns, especially at airports.

The bloke had done nothing.

Bottom line is, you are talking about something you obviously don't know anything about.

(V): The guy was on his way home from work, he was harmless.

You are the one who doesnt know what he is talking about.... this guy is just walking home from work you say??? He is surrounded by police just by some random accident?

It looks quite obvious to me that he is being told to move along by the police, and he is trying to be defiant, by dilly dallying along, he is far from being some plain guy just minding his own business and the police just come at him from nowhere and decide to just push him for absolutely no reason.... he is being told to pick up the pace and move along, and he would be alive today if he was compliant

Czuch: Well the Independent Police complaints commission are handling the case. His walk home was through the area of the G20 protests, his crime.. none.

They are also looking into that he might have been assaulted by the police before hand and why did he need to be git with a baton and shoved from the back to the ground.

He did nothing wrong Czuch, he just wanted to get home to watch the football.

You've got it wrong Czuch.... completely wrong. And the police are not above the law. PERIOD.

(V): And the police are not above the law. PERIOD.

i dont know your laws, but over here, it is against the law to not comply with any demand or request from a police officer.... they tell him to move along, to pick up the pace, then he decides to be defiant and slow down the pace.... he was being a dick and he knew it and the police knew it and I know it, and so do you, just that you wont admit it, and you feel for him because you would have done the exact same thing... "who are they to tell me how fast to walk, those A holes...."

Like I said, he would still be alive had he just complied with them, right or wrong...

Czuch: No.. he wasn't.. If you'd watch the video you'd know that.

There is no reason to shove to the ground someone is doing nothing violent. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW, if a policeman did that to me, I would have the right to make a citizens arrest against that police officer.

You've got it wrong. As Art said, if he had done something wrong .. like verbally abusive.. then he is arrested. As he wasn't and went on and died somewhere else just a few minutes later... then he can't have done anything AS HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED by the police at the time of their interaction with them.

HE WASN'T ARRESTED.

(V): He was non compliant to a request from a police officer.... that is illegal, but they had more important things to worry about than to waste resources arresting him for non compliance, so they tried to impress upon him with a bit of force that they were serious about him moving it along a bit faster....

Wait and see the results, but my bet is that this officer does not get charged with manslaughter

Czuch: That's illegal Czuch, to use force such as used against a non-violent person.... And as said he was not arrested, the police were hardly busy at the point of the incident.

Regardless of being charged for manslaughter, he still committed a criminal offence and will probably be given the boot. The police have had enough press over bad apples and stupid police doing stupid things.

They are supposed to uphold the law, not break it!!

(V): This guy broke the law by being non compliant with a police request.... they have a right to enforce compliance with force....

I am not the one who gave the government more control, I am mostly for less control, but we dont base what laws to break or not to break based on our individual desires... it is against the law to not comply with the commands of a police officer, it is not against the law for police to force compliance against someone ordered to comply

this guy was being an A hole for the purpose of pissing off the police, now he is dead..

my grandmother always asked me if I was better off being dead right???? ask the same to this poor slob...

Czuch: You know he broke the law... please show me where he broke the law? Any evidence of non compliance?? Nothing has come up in the news. In fact they tried blaming it on the protesters....

I'll give ya 24 hours to find anything

(V): I dont know anything for sure, looks to me like this bloke was"taunting" the police by being a bit belligerent and in their way....

maybe they never did give him an order to move along or to do anything... still my guess is that this shove did not cause this guys death... I also still believe no matter what happened, this guy was a dumb ass, and it doesnt look to me like he was just trying to make his way home from work, unless he was too drunk to make his way in a straight line and in an orderly way, the guy seems out of it to me?

Czuch: but you don't know. So you cannot say he did. You are just assuming.

20 hours left...

Czuch:
He was non compliant to a request from a police officer.... that is illegal

That is illegal only in countries where the Police are above the law, just as (V) aptly pointed out. In democratic countries, however, even the Police have to obey the rules.

Pedro Martínez: These are obviously police in a riot control mode, it was a tense time in a volatile area... but regardless, here in the US it is against the law to not obey any command from a police officer... we dont get to decide which commands we think are valid or not... they say to move on and you move on, they say faster, you move faster...

now, just because I have broken a law doesnt give them the right to use excessive force against me, or maybe they should have arrested him instead of trying to force his compliance, but when you say he has broken no laws, you are not correct (if this were US laws anyway)

Maybe he is dead right.... ask him if being alive right might not be better?

Czuch: OK, but who cares about your Police Country in this particular case. This happened in the UK, where non-compliance with a request of a police officer (no matter if the officer requests you to move faster or to jump out of a window or to quack while jumping on your left leg) is not a crime and it's not against the law. Why would he think about some twisted US laws when walking home from work?

Pedro Martínez: I started my whole discussion with the assumption that our 2 laws are similar, and until now, nobody contradicted this... sorry


so this officer is guilty of pushing someone that got in their way, he will probably then get suspended, but not manslaughter, IMO

the guy is still an idiot, and I still think his intent was to provoke them, it seem sure that it was more than just a guy walking his merry way home, blind to anything else going on around him, unless maybe he was high on drugs or alcohol..

Czuch: I admire your deduction abilities. You should be working for CIA as a clairvoyant.

Pedro Martínez: Like I said, the guy is an idiot then... you dont have to be a clairvoyant, just know what an average person under average situation should do....

If I am trying to walk my way home from work, and that is my sole agenda, and there are a gang of police in full riot gear, and you are in a known volatile area, most prudent people would figure out a way to stay out of the way... find a different route or move a bit faster or whatever it would take... a prudent person would not likely just stroll along with hands in pockets like that in a close proximity to the police.... as far as i know too, the police dont like people with hands hiden like that, they get wary that a gun or hand grenade or something might come into play....

Again, the UK is probably different, but here in the police state of the US, that is our standard of proof, what would a normal prudent person be expected to do or how would they behave in a given situation?

The guy might only be guilty of being an idiot... and the police is only guilty of being an idiot too....

(V): The police have many things going on all the time.... it may seem like nothing to you or to this guy, but maybe they had to have this area cleared for some unknown reason to me or to you or to this guy? Maybe there was a bomb or other immediate threat that they had been warned about, and they were trying to save this guys life by getting him to move out quicker?

You really dont know, nor do you need to know, all you need to know is that it is the police telling you to move it quickly, and when you dont do it, you get a bit of a nudge... thats what I see here

Czuch: A BIT OF A NUDGE!!!!!!!! He was shoved with BOTH HANDS from BEHIND.

NO BOMBS, NO IMMEDIATE THREATS.

The guy was just going home.