BrainKing - Klobe na mloveni (Politics)

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Politics

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31. prosenca 2009, 07:01:58

Übergeek 바둑이

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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Yemen terrorists

Czuch:

> I still believe that taking him out was worth the cost

What was the cost? 150,000 civilians killed by violent death; another 500,000 killed as a result of destroyed hospitals, water treatment facilities and other infrastructure; 4,568 non-American coalition forces soldiers; and 4,345 American soldiers.

Here are some nice quotes:

"According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report published in October 2007, the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion dollars by 2017."

"As the total passed US$450 billion in 2007, the cost for the Iraq war reached approximately $1500 per person in the United States. If the Iraq war were to wind up costing 1.9 trillion dollars, the cost would be over 4.2 times higher ($6,300 per United States citizen.) This would put the expense at $25,000 for an average family of four, or $32,000 per family if Afghanistan is included."

Getting rid of Saddam was worth every dollar spent, and every human life lost. Now we can recover the cost in oil, and let Haliburton, Exxon and Chevron keep the profits.

I guess Americans can happily accept spending 32K per family of four, just to let oil companies reap the profits from the war. Now, where are the WMDs? Who is responsible and who pays for manufacturing false intelligence?

31. prosenca 2009, 16:08:21

Czuch

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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Yemen terrorists

Übergeek 바둑이: ...and the CBO knows what the total cost would have been keeping him "fenced in" for who knows how many years, and then his sons, and then who knows, maybe some many years down the road, we end up having to go after him anyways, what is that total cost in lives and money?????

My guess is thsat we got off cheap!

BTW, you must be against our recent health care bill? Its funny I dont hear the media or liberals calling Obama a liar over this one, even though the CBO(yes the same trusted CBO that you just quoted) has said that their liberals' numbers are simply lies!

31. prosenca 2009, 17:32:56

Übergeek 바둑이

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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Yemen terrorists

Czuch:

> My guess is thsat we got off cheap!

You go and tell it to the families and all those dead people. I am sure they will agree with you.

31. prosenca 2009, 17:45:33

Czuch

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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Yemen terrorists

Übergeek 바둑이: I will go tell all the families who have no dead people, I am sure they will agree with me too!

You can never win this debate, since there is no way for you to prove that the losses would not have been greater had we left the status quo

I know you are smarter than that argument, really?

You can always ask the family of a dead person, and they will not agree they like their son dead..... and I can agree on one point, that it is a lot easier to say a cost was worth it, when it isnt your familys life that was part of the cost.

But my point is still valid, we could have spent untold money and time keeping Saddam fenced in, and who knows, still end up having to take him out, and maybe it would cost a lot more if done down the road... maybe saying we got off cheap is wrong, but saying that we got off "cheaper" this way than any other way, how can you say I am wrong?

31. prosenca 2009, 17:40:46

Übergeek 바둑이

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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Yemen terrorists

Czuch:

> BTW, you must be against our recent health care bill?

I think that while the Obama administrations intentions are good, the health care bill will probably fail. If it fails, it will be because the Republican party cares more about protecting the business of private insurers than about the lack of adequate care for the poor. Well, the US is the only modern industrialized country without universally available health care. I think it bothers Democrats that the US is behind the trend in other industrialized countries.

The next 10 years will prove whether private insurers can keep up with rising healthcare costs. As the Baby Boomer generation ages, the pressure on private insurers will increase to the point that some of them will go bankrupt. It is at that point that state-run healthcare will probably come to the forefront, as a bailout for a failing private system. I expect a full bailout, as it happened with the banks last year.

I doubt Obama's healthcare bill will succeed, but his successor in 7 years will be forced to do something about it.

31. prosenca 2009, 17:51:05

Czuch

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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Yemen terrorists

Übergeek 바둑이: lack of adequate care for the poor. Well, the US is the only modern industrialized country without universally available health care.

I am not sure you stated your point the way you meant to?

We already do have universally available health care.... even non citizens can walk into any emergency room and never be turned away services because they dont have the ability to pay for it.

as for the poor having adequate care.... I think if you are very poor you have a better chance to get you health care paid for you than any other income groups.

31. prosenca 2009, 17:58:47

Czuch

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O čem je toďten plk: Re: Yemen terrorists

Übergeek 바둑이: If it fails, it will be because the Republican party cares more about protecting the business of private insurers than about the lack of adequate care for the poor.

I disagree.... I think it will be because republicans care more about doing something right than what the democrats are willing to do. I live in a state with a couple of the more liberal republicans, who side with democrats way more than I would prefer, and they have never been ones to tote a party line just for that sake, yet they have not been able to back this latest health care plan.

Doesnt it bother you at all that Obama won the election basically because he called for a change in the way politics were run, and more bipartisanship, and openness and all that happy horse crap? This health care law would not take effect for 4 years, whats the rush to pass it like this anyway?