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Ovaděč: Walter Montego 
 Chess variants (10x8)

Sam has closed his piano and gone to bed ... now we can talk about the real stuff of life ... love, liberty and games such as
Janus, Capablanca Random, Embassy Chess & the odd mention of other 10x8 variants is welcome too


For posting:
- invitations to games (you can also use the New Game menu or for particular games: Janus; Capablanca Random; or Embassy)
- information about upcoming tournaments
- disussion of games (please limit this to completed games or discussion on how a game has arrived at a certain position
... speculation on who has an advantage or the benefits of potential moves is not permitted while that particular game is in progress)
- links to interesting related sites (non-promotional)


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17. lestopado 2004, 01:16:01
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: chancellor and arch sacrifice
I meant to ad,I already found this game with Mr. Trice's help.

17. lestopado 2004, 01:14:25
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: chancellor and arch sacrifice
Thanks

12. lestopado 2004, 18:21:14
CardinalFlight 
The gothic chess computer tournament starts tommorow.

http://www.gothicchess.org/world_championship.html

9. lestopado 2004, 05:48:42
CardinalFlight 
O čem je toďten plk: chancellor and arch sacrifice
http://www.gothicchess.org/game2.html

Here is the full game and animated

9. lestopado 2004, 00:23:46
CardinalFlight 
O čem je toďten plk: Tedbarder:

8. lestopado 2004, 20:21:19
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: My Mistake.
In my earlier message about Mr. Trice's game in which he had a mating combination using sacrifices of both his Archbishop and Chancellor to obtain mate;his opponant was Mark Bittle,not Ed Bittle. It is a remarkable game and was a pleasure to watch unfold;I only wish that I still had a copy of its moves to play over and enjoy once more.

8. lestopado 2004, 00:57:19
Kili 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Joust at the Realm #3
Thank you

5. lestopado 2004, 19:00:03
tedbarber 
I am still having trouble with my game boards;any other suggestions.

5. lestopado 2004, 02:25:58
ChessCarpenter 
O čem je toďten plk: Joust at the Realm #3
Přetvořeny oževatelem ChessCarpenter (5. lestopado 2004, 02:26:36)
Congrats to Matarilevich for winning the Joust!!
Well done! Thanks for everyone else for playing in the Tournament!
Joust at the Realm #3

4. lestopado 2004, 16:06:55
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Re:
I know you are a strong player from the games we played;so I believe you about your not needing outside help. But;what about weak players who play much better than their level of skill indicates they should;and they do so repeatedly.

3. lestopado 2004, 18:29:08
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Gothic Chess Reviews
Have can I get copies?

2. lestopado 2004, 18:13:58
Anencephal 
There is a difference between Server-based (e.g. brainking) and correspondence (e.g. ICCF) chess. If I play with someone under ICCF rules why can't I post/fax/email him 1.e5?
On brainking, server doesn't let me.
There is no mention of that on ICCF rules. NO , there is , it refers me to FIDE rules. FIDE rules explicitly mention how to move a pawn.
What about using a chess engine? why the rule 4.3 is valid but 12.2 isn't?
I don't say there is a way to solve that problem. I just want to say if I use a chess engine in ICCF games , I'm a Cheater, acting against their principle philosophy.

Ok schachdmt, that was my last post about this :)
I left IECG.org because I don't like this kind of chess. And no way to solve it, but they are CHEATERS.

2. lestopado 2004, 18:07:04
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Oops.......
This game was in one of the early Gothic Chess Review Magazines;I think July 2000;it was also an animated game on the the old Yahoo gothicchess.com website.

2. lestopado 2004, 17:54:29
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Oops.......
Ed also played a game in the early days of gothic chess in which he sacrificed both his Archbishop and Chancellor and still managed to checkmate his opponant(not sure;but I believe the opponant was Ed Bittle;maybe Mr. Trice can furnish more acurate information on this.) I think this game was played in 2000.

2. lestopado 2004, 17:46:43
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Re:
My answer as to why I play turn based and not live is that I do not own a computer and must use The public libraries computer. The only allow us 30-60 minutes on it;Monday-Saturaday. Otherwise, I would be happy to play live games on the computer. I do play live games at my 2 chess clubs and with several friends I have;these are over the board games. Thank You!

2. lestopado 2004, 17:25:08
votacommunista 
O čem je toďten plk: cheating and so on
cheers! please flame about cheating and so on not at this board ... i think we cannot solve this problem and when it should be discussed, then not here, PLEASE!

2. lestopado 2004, 17:21:59
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Re:
It is very simple : If there is nothing mentioned,there is nothing forbidden.
And I think using helps correlates with the sense of correspondence chess. The using of engines is one of these helps (beside books,common analyzing in the chessclub and databases).The last decision has always the player himself,he must decide what is a good or a bad advice.Surely he can describe only the moves from a book or a chessengine.But I think most players analyze with these helps and to win against a strong correspondence chess player you need more..
Btw,has it sense to forbid someting,what you cannot control and to make the most players to cheaters? You cannot look in their living room.

2. lestopado 2004, 17:07:00
Anencephal 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Re:
So they should mention it separately in their rules that what is cheating what is not.
Now anybody who doesn't find it in their rules should search in FIDE rules!
I see it against their principle philosophy (Amici Sumus ) , if I play with someone who I think dosen't use a chess engine but he does.
Unfortuanetly I don't know German :(
I can't find a rule about that on brainking also.

2. lestopado 2004, 16:34:06
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re:
Přetvořeny oževatelem Caissus (5. lestopado 2004, 12:19:39)
Fariborz,such an important fact would be mentioned separately!.We have had this discussion often at our German serverchesspage (www.remoteschach.de),where some ICCF-functionaries are present often.
The German correspondence chess federation (member of ICCF)has also explained it on his webpage http://www.bdf-fernschachbund.de/

2. lestopado 2004, 16:02:09
Anencephal 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Chessmaster
The ICCF rules refer us to FIDE rules. It just defines time controle, move transmission,...
So the EE101-12.2 rule of FIDE is as valid as the rule of how knight moves.

12.2 During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information, advice, ...

Also a tournament director's job is to decide about lying and CHEATING. If any help is OK so what is cheating?

2. lestopado 2004, 15:53:12
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: schachmdmt
Přetvořeny oževatelem Caissus (3. lestopado 2004, 16:58:51)
You can use the freeware MAX .(Misc/dowloads)
But unfortunately the PGN ist not compatible with the BK-PGN:

Max-PGN

1. h2-h4 e7-e5 2. i2-i3 d7-d6 3. Bh1-i2 Ni8-h6 4. Bi2xc8 Qd8xc8
5. Ag1-h3 f7-f5 6. Ce1-f3 Ag8-e6 7. e2-e4 f5-f4 8. Ah3xe6 Ce8xe6
9. Ni1-h3 *

BK-PGN

1. h4 e5 2. i3 d6 3. Bi2 Nh6 4. Bxc8 Qxc8 5. Ah3 f5 6. Cf3 Ae6 7. e4 f4 8. Axe6+ Cxe6 9. Nh3 *

A PGN-viewer for BK 8x10 games would be great!

2. lestopado 2004, 14:13:14
votacommunista 
O čem je toďten plk: gothic chess database; web view interface
at the moment i can play gothic chess only with a "virtual" board - and i will soon order a board and figures from ed. a gothic chess program is less interesting for me - more interesting would be a database (such as chessbase - maybe gothicchessbase). Does everyone know one? Or is there no database out?
Interesting would be a PGNviewer for gothic chess so thatgames gan be comfortable replayed with comments on the web. Is there anything? If not it would be a nice project for me when i have time for that.

2. lestopado 2004, 14:08:30
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Chessmaster
Přetvořeny oževatelem Caissus (3. lestopado 2004, 17:05:59)
Internetchess can be differentiated in "livechess" and "turnbased chess".

In "livechess" you play with your opponent one game only, both players must be online,there are no breaks,mostly short time limits (5 ,15,60 minutes,two hours for the whole game): both players play "synchron"!
It is the same as in OTB games:Helps and aids are forbidden. At livechessservers like "playchess.com" (the Fritzserver) players will disqualified automatically if they use software.Every day if you play there you can see such messages in the display.There can control it!

But in "turnbased chess" you play many games,both players must not be online at the same time,there are breaks of sometimes several days,the time limits are in days and not in minutes or in hours : the players play "asynchron".
That means we have here a kind of correspondence (server)chess (beside cards,fax,email) and in correspondence chess a l l kind of helps and aids are allowed.All strong correspondence chess players worldwide use programs to analyze their games.Look at the homepage of the ICCF http://www.iccf.com/
Do you find there any prohibitions? (because prohibitions make only sense if you have possibilities of a control)
The chances are now equal again,the question is only : how good can a player work with these helps?

2. lestopado 2004, 13:53:51
Chessmaster1000 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Chessmaster
<>Personally i don't care if my opponent uses a program to play Gothic Chess, since i can crush all available >Gothic Chess program at correspondence Gothic Chess.

I should add a horrible mistake i have made here.

Yes, it is true that i can crush all available Gothic Chess programs at correspondence Gothic Chess so i would not care if any of my opponents uses one, but i forgot the case that one is using a program to analyse his games and not play the moves the bot is saying.
So i guess i should also care if someone uses a program for playing Gothic Chess, since the computer combined with the human brain, creates something that i can't beat it easily. And it is unfair too......

2. lestopado 2004, 13:47:04
Chessmaster1000 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Chessmaster
Well if we define "cheating" as:

someone is cheating in a game, if and only if he uses anything else except from his brain and his knowledge to play the game,

then anyone who uses a program is cheating.

With another definition it is not. By the way why you don't think it is not cheating? What is your definition of cheating?

But i would definitely call it cheating if the opponent doesn't know it and the other uses the help of a program to play Chess-Variant games.

Personally i don't care if my opponent uses a program to play Gothic Chess, since i can crush all available Gothic Chess program at correspondence Gothic Chess. But with Chess is different. Now that Chess programs started to prevail over humans at this area too(correspondence Chess), i find it unfair, if my opponent used a program without me, knowing that.

2. lestopado 2004, 13:12:34
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Chessmaster
Přetvořeny oževatelem Caissus (2. lestopado 2004, 13:46:01)
<>Caissus Ed plays a very aggressive game that is much better than Vortex.<>

Undoubted! Even so I am sure he uses his own program to analyze his games and this is surely one of the reasons for it.
And to make it really clear: I don`t think this is cheating - in turn-based chess!

2. lestopado 2004, 13:00:55
Chessmaster1000 
O čem je toďten plk: Oops.......
<>Btw,tedbarber,do you really think that Edtrice doesn`t use the "Vortex" at analyzing his own games?

Caissus Ed plays a very aggressive game that is much better than Vortex.

Look at this position.
chancellor sacrifice

Ed plays 8. Cxf7+ next, sacrificing his Chancellor. No matter how long
Vortex thinks, it will never play this move.

Even better example: knight sacrifice

Ed threw away his knight here with 9. Ng5+ to destroy the position.
No program right now would ever make such moves!!!!!!

Ed is a strong programmer and a strong player which gives him a great advantage when it comes to playing against programs. He beat Deep Thought,
the strong chess program, and he beat a World Champion Checker program too.

So what programs did he use to beat the world's best programs?
His brain i guess!

So i don't think he has any need for using a program.......

2. lestopado 2004, 12:59:15
Chessmaster1000 
O čem je toďten plk: Caissus..........
<>Btw,tedbarber,do you really think that Edtrice doesn`t use the "Vortex" at analyzing his own games?

Caissus Ed plays a very aggressive game that is much better than Vortex.

Look at this position: chancellor sacrifice

Ed plays 8. Cxf7+ next, sacrificing his Chancellor. No matter how long
Vortex thinks, it will never play this move.

Even better example:

1. lestopado 2004, 19:14:41
Thad 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Thad.....
Geez, I think that's my most embarassing typo/misspelling of all time!

1. lestopado 2004, 18:06:02
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re:
What I think is: If you play turn-based (with breaks of sometimes several days) you must live with the fact that the players use all helps they can have! The chances are equal again for all!
Btw,tedbarber,do you really think that Edtrice doesn`t use the "Vortex" at analyzing his own games?

1. lestopado 2004, 17:56:52
bwildman 
I dont know about Ted,Cassius...but I cant while on webtv.
But I have noticed the number of 2000 plus rated gothic players climbing with the increased sales of vortex.

1. lestopado 2004, 17:40:39
Caissus 
And I ask me,why people like tedbarber play "turn-based" and not "live",without breaks.
At "livechess" like USCL or Playchess.com,for instance,the using of computers is forbidden and will be punished by immediate automatic disqualification.

1. lestopado 2004, 17:28:02
bwildman 
vortex is also making it easier to cheat.

1. lestopado 2004, 17:20:39
tedbarber 
O čem je toďten plk: Re:
In answer to what difficulties I have with Bird Chess,as opposed to Gothic Chess;I do not play any other Chess Variation except an occassional game of either Chinese Chess or Janus Chess. Why on earth would I want to play an extremely unbalanced game where White has such an unfair advantage in The Opening that he can take away all reasonable responses but one to Black;as well as making it very difficult for Black to have a decent chance to win. This is too too big an advantage for White. So,I'll stick to almost exclusively playing Gothic Chess. By the way,I also hate traditional Chess because Computers not only made it too easy to cheat;but greatly contributed to over analyzing it. I dispise Chess Computers and people who use them to cheat their opponants by getting their moves from them. In a chess game,or any other game for that matter,it is cheating to use an outside source other than ones own brain to get your moves while the game is in progress;and no honest person would do so. Unfortunately,many persons do cheat their opponants by using computers or other players help to defeat an opponant. I would never do this since it is not only dishonest;but flat out cheating. There is absolutely no satisfaction in winning a game I do not win by my skill alone;so Win,Lose,or Draw when someone faces me they are absolutely assured I will never stoop soooo low as to use an outside source to cheat them. My result depends entirely on my skill alone and nothing else. Honor means more than winning to me.

1. lestopado 2004, 16:52:53
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re:
Přetvořeny oževatelem Caissus (1. lestopado 2004, 16:53:58)
I think,it is a very playable move.Look at my long game against slate, (Game id 286338).
1.f4 is comparable with the "open games" in regular chess (with 1.e4), a good alternative to 1.d4

1. lestopado 2004, 16:45:55
tedbarber 
Is 1. f4 ; a bad idea in Gothic? I usually win when my opponant plays this.

1. lestopado 2004, 14:53:43
redsales 
Freudian slip

1. lestopado 2004, 14:30:05
bumble 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Thad.....
ROFL! You 'asked this question pubically'? What were you talking to? :D

31. řína 2004, 10:48:01
Thad 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Thad.....
Přetvořeny oževatelem Thad (1. lestopado 2004, 19:11:38)
I guess there is one mod who is 'head moderator'. I don't really know, but you'll notice that when there is more than one mod on a DB, the first one is always listed in larger text. Walter mentioned that, after being mod along with bwildman & me for several weeks, that he could boot mods. I never had that ability, so I can only conclude that there is a little difference from the powers of the mod listed first and the rest.

I still don't know WHY I was booted. I never did anything wrong as moderator (unlike him). I have asked this question before both publicaly and privately with no response. I guess Walter has chosen not to speak to me any longer.

31. řína 2004, 10:42:19
Caissus 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Thad.....
Přetvořeny oževatelem Caissus (31. řína 2004, 10:42:38)
Chessmaster,Walter is moderator and Thad was only submoderator.The moderator can add or remove submoderators of his own choice.

31. řína 2004, 10:27:52
Chessmaster1000 
O čem je toďten plk: Thad.....
One thing that i didn't understand: How Walter removed you (Thad) from being a moderator?
When you've been a moderator you could do the same?
I ask because i think it's funny if a moderator has the ability to remove another moderator....

31. řína 2004, 05:39:36
Thad 
O čem je toďten plk: Re: Re:
No, the government makes us all pay taxes. If you VOTE, then you have the right to complain!! ;-)

Speaking of complaining, I have set up a new fellowship called Rants & Raves - Anything Goes. Anyone who wants to complain about anything that has happened here at the Gothic Chess DB can PM me for an invite. Well, almost anyone.

31. řína 2004, 05:22:27
ChessCarpenter 
O čem je toďten plk: Re:
I wasn't refering to you Redsales and I'm sorry if it offended you. I'm sure many people don't like what I posted but thats what I believe!
I know that you've been trying to talk real Gothic Chess here in your lasts few posts but until this DB gets its act together I'm not posting anything much more. If you want me to help you with your game I will do it by PM or at Gothic Chess SteamRollers. Also, I don't agree with you that people who don't play Gothic should post anything they want here because...most of those people are the ones that go from DB to DB stirring up the pot with their nonsense! You play, you have a voice...like...if you pay taxes you have a right to complain.

31. řína 2004, 04:32:27
redsales 
well, i've been trying to talk about it, but no one, including you, Chesscarpenter, ever replies. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Also, about Walter, first you said he talked too much, now not enough? I guess nothing can make your faction happy.
Lastly, people who don't play Goth have every right to say whatever they want about it. I've never been to war, but what I have to say about it is meaningful. Likewise with Goth.

Goth is still popular on this site, but I know of at least 5 people who refuse to play another game of it in protest of what they interpret as Ed's heavyhandedness. That's their choice, but surely you can see playing and analysis is more important than splintering the "community"? The gauntlet is thrown, does anyone have anything to say about that game below or am I going to have to form my own fellowship to talk about it?

Just kidding. Psyche.

31. řína 2004, 04:19:56
ChessCarpenter 
O čem je toďten plk: To BBW
Přetvořeny oževatelem ChessCarpenter (31. řína 2004, 04:21:20)
Ed made Gothic Chess Steamrollers so people like myself who love to play Gothic Chess can do so without all of the "BS" that happens at this DB!
We need a space like this where we can talk about what matters without a moderator who antogonizes then disappears and also the people who never play and think that what they say means something!
It's a shame that this DB will suffer because of inactivity or lack of topic but at least we have our Fellowships.
Walter wanted to know why I hardly post here and I told him that I never had a problem posting in Fellowship DB's. If anyone wants to join the Gothic Chess SteamRollers and are someone who is serious about there play, ask Ed for an invite.
I will see you there!!

30. řína 2004, 22:14:16
Caissus 
As usual only promises.

30. řína 2004, 18:59:29
LongJohn 
LOL
figures

30. řína 2004, 18:58:59
coan.net 
No, he won a prize tournament. (2 tournaments actually I think)

30. řína 2004, 18:38:27
LongJohn 
but he paid for another rook membership?

30. řína 2004, 18:30:49
coan.net 
Why start a new Fellowship Trice - I thought you were leaving the site yet again?

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