Vikings: Ok.. but someone could if they wanted to place an advert 100 feet tall (with permission of the land owners) opposite your house selling say.. "Obama healthcare works" in neon lights.. and you can't do anything?

Vikings: Isn't trespassing in the USA a civil offence like here in the UK.

ie sellers can still knock.. especially if they have no morals... which isn't unusual considering past records on what they will try and get upto.

Advert just on UK TV.....

A blonde woman dancing with moves suggesting the injection of drugs... she speaks claiming she is our addiction for a perfume who's name is based on opium.

Gee.. why not not just name it Eu da heroin!!

Vikings: First it was free speech.. now it's "speech".

Make up your mind!!

Vikings: They were talking about free speech not adverts... you have given NO proof, just an opinion.

That.. in the past adverts have been subject to legislation does suggest that you are wrong regardless of your stance of "free speech". As such, it is selling, not speaking or having an opinion.

Tuesday: I like to pause a prog as it starts.. then fast forward past the ads.

Vikings: I already have explained my position. You are disagreeing stating it's free speech.. well then. Explain yourself.

If you are just exploiting a bit of the constitution to defend your point.. then just say so.

Vikings: Adverts are free speech?? Explain how please.

Vikings: I see nothing about TV ads mentioned in your quote. Nothing at all.

rod03801: So being as it's not there either way on TV and radio, it's just an opinion that it's not supposed to "insert itself into such matters." .. But then again.. ain't you guys in the USA had rules on things that can be shown on TV, especially regarding sex, foul language and Saturday morning TV?

Which implies that the gov does have some right.

As for money talks. Please.. we are talking about companies that were happy to use subliminal messaging in adverts... is that still legal?

rod03801: So the original constitution had rules about TV and radio??

"straightened out with the people on our OWN level."

Through the legal system which takes how many years?

We have OFCOM in the UK.

Blimey.. it's as if we in the UK haven't had legislation for decades covering race, sex, religious and other types of discrimination and harassment.

And the current government implementing this legislation if of what political party mainly...

CONSERVATIVE!!!

which just goes to prove.. Conservatism in the USA is a breed apart

Tuesday: At the time John the Baptist wetted Christ?

"You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

... somehow I don't think it was Darth Vader!!

Tuesday: And Moses heard who's voice?

As for age.. people are living longer, people have already beaten 120.

Artful Dodger: Does that include how you put your socks on??

rod03801: But.. the government does have more than one person looking into things don't they??

Picking on that they are sorting out a piece of legislation that some feel needs to be sorted out is just being pedantic is it not?

Tuesday: But God did not stop speaking... nor is it that man will live less then 120 years... I thought it was 4 score and ten anyway!!

Tuesday: That then implies question to how the Lord appeared and spoke to so many in the OT... when he wasn't even born then....

rod03801: It ain't stupid for those who have medical conditions that can be affected by that sudden increase in sound. Such as ear related problems.

And yes.. they are using that trick of louder adverts on UK TV. Not many like it.

Artful Dodger: As mentioned in this video.. shame the wall street journal didn't check out the story before they printed a false rumour.

Tuesday: .. The man named Elijah and at that time "a prophet" died ages ago.. The man named John who was named by his parents was also called "the baptist".

But... if Jesus was the messiah, according to OT prophecy.. Elijah had to be there, and the opening of the talk on John says he was of the spirit Elijah.

.... from a point of when someone is put into a trance in order to look back at past memories, they remember being a person. They are not that person now.

Tuesday: Saved people can bury bodies as well... but it's best to remember that it's just a body.

Then there is John the Baptist .. the Prophet Elijah reborn.

Tuesday: You also have Jesus when talking about a funeral "let the dead bury the dead".

Tuesday: Oh I've heard about that.. I think Hubbard just took the likes of Christianity and/or other religions like Krishna and gave it a sci-fi twist.

... In Zen there is the story of how a devout monk training under a false master still achieved enlightenment and could when asked to walk, on water. It's not so much to me that they may believe in 'aliens', as to a certain degree reincarnation as taught in many religions cannot deny the possibility that we have lived on other worlds. I object to the way the people are used. One story of how a woman who was married could not tell her husband she was pregnant till 8 months gone is terrible.

Ex members of the official Scientology org are now it appears trying to start a reformation, to try and take it back to the early days when it was more a family then a business.

..Interesting. Scientology as a religion was (according to original followers) ok.. then Hubbard died and da new management changed things. Money then became God.

Tuesday: Depends on how you define 'cult' .. Money changers would be more accurate.. just like some of the Christian Evangelists, or like one of the so called Christian channels here in the UK...

My.. what a big stone the presenter wore on her ring finger.. I wonder if it had anything to do with that she was the wife and co owner of the TV channel.

Tonight's Panorama is a revisit to the world of Scientology. Will the same events happen as last time?? Will the Scientologists stalk the BBC crew?? Will they diss everyone that speaks to the reporter dragging up any piece of dirt they can?

If they were so wonderful.. why do that?

Last night's Panorama was on how investigations into 'war crimes' committed by the British Army were blocked or delayed by the chain of command. It appears that the breaches in the Geneva convention were encouraged by the USA despite a 30 odd year ban after inquiries into the same sort of instances in Northern Ireland.

... As one person commentated.... "How can you try and win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people if you are doing what you are saying is wrong to do"

A leaked report by the Red Cross into the treatment of prisoners in Iraq by servicemen sent to the MOD and British Army condemned the treatment of prisoners and the covering up of such. In the new year a report will be released into an incident where there is a disagreement over how many dead Iraqis were transported to a depot after an attack on a British column and how many were alive.

In recent news .. a 100 strong wind farm has started producing green energy off the English coast... the power produced is enough to power 200,000 homes.

More from Paul Mason's report on Glen Beck...

".....A local pastor kicks off the proceedings. Beck - and the other speakers - he claims, "will be speaking for God": a claim Beck is not around to hear and will later contradict. Not only this, but Beck and others are the target of unspecified people who would like to kill them, the pastor insists: hence, we the audience must pray for their safety.

Next the compere, who says that America is under siege from more than just al-Qaeda:

"Today we're not only being attacked by terrorists but by those who believe in different principles: our children are being indoctrinated with liberal views on a daily basis."

And consider this, from an Iraq-style deck of "wanted cards" on sale in the sparsely populated exhibition space: a picture of Barack Obama, framed with the legend:

"Trust me. I am not a Kenyan born, lying, arrogant Muslim communist that hates America - really I'm not: Barack Hussein Obama, President USA, Socialist/Communist . The Ultimate Race Card. Done in 2102," complete with the caveat: "This is not a quotation of this person merely a funny anecdotal statement."

http://www.novembersmostwanted.com/

...Beck spoke for one hour thirty minutes, to an audience of about 2,000 paying up to $125 (£80) a seat. Having been whipped up by the previous speakers, and videos eliding images of D-Day with 9/11 and Fallujah, they were now whipped down by Glenn Beck.

His website, TheBlaze.com had already warned followers to desist from wearing historical costumes and toting self-scrawled banners open to the accusation of bigotry. So the crowd were mainly wearing Beck t-shirts ($15) and, some, beatific smiles."

FOX NEWS LIES AGAIN

The REAL story in Greece over the riots was due to the Greek government going almost bankrupt. Which meant the government (as part of the deal from the EU to bail them out) had to cut freeze public sector jobs and wages.

... Are tea party members always being so nutty?

.. so the Tea party are saying it's wrong to have signs and billboards made up by their members comparing Obama to Hitler.. but it's ok to verbally compare Obama to Hitler.

"He says he’s seen different signs that have compared Obama to Hitler, or pictures of Obama with a Hitler-style mustache drawn on it, and they’ve asked people put the signs away because they’re “distasteful.” He says people are tired of slander and mudslinging and the Tea Party doesn’t need to take part in it. While he doesn’t agree with posting the billboard, White says he agrees that Obama has followed several of the same principles as Hitler."

.. And to nit pick over whether it's a sign or billboard... So, on the right... you have freedom of speech and can compare Obama to Hitler.

But what does that say about the people who feel the need to do it?

Tuesday: Imho.. a person should have the right to decide how they die when it comes to certain medical conditions. I certainly do not want to be kept on life support if by all accounts, I'm not in my body.

I feel dnr is represented or implied at least in the Hippocratic Oath. Something here in the UK all doctors swear to.

"I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."

Artful Dodger: ??? I remember you posting links and articles on "death panels" ... Now, are you saying it's wrong for those who get ill to have their health care providers live up to their name and provide health care???

That sounds nimbyish

Vikings: No he didn't. He rescued the banks from meltdown which, if it had happened would have set off a depression and mess in the banking system that would have killed the USA economy and affected many other countries. See the Iceland bank disaster and you'll understand.

Many businesses, charities and local councils lost millions in the UK n' Europe when the Icelandic bank system went under.

.. I mean.. if the Banking system in the USA went down through bankruptcies and the aftershocks..... Do you know whether you'd find that your bank would be affected or be dragged under?

Your car companies are an important employer, directly and indirectly.. when they recover isn't the federal gov going to get back their money like with those the UK bailed out?

As for your health system... it seems mixed markets can work.. at least when it comes to economies. China has gone from a 'communist' to a mixed economy and is booming.

Or do you expect the Federal gov to keep paying for people that through a joint system will pay for or part pay for themselves?

.... you want to pay less taxes but don't want the system in place to make that possible!!!!

Artful Dodger: protect from enemies foreign and domestic.

There is an old saying about banks being more dangerous than standing armies

According to the CBO, the legislation will reduce the deficit by $143 billion[5] over the first decade and by $1.2 trillion in the second decade, as compared to current legislation.[81][82] The CBO has revised its estimates several times, initially projecting a savings of $132 billion, then $118 billion, and later $138 billion.[83][84] The CBO estimates the cost of the first decade at $940 billion, $923 billion of which takes place during the final six years (2014–2019) when the benefits kick in.[84][85] The CBO also projects revenue will exceed spending during these six years.[86]

The CBO generally does not provide cost estimates beyond the 10-year budget projection period because of the great degree of uncertainty involved in the data. It decided to do so in this case at the request of lawmakers. It predicted deficit reduction at about within "a broad range around one-half percent of GDP" over the 2020s while cautioning that "a wide range of changes could occur".[87]

David Walker, former U.S. Comptroller General now working for The Peter G. Peterson Foundation, has stated that the CBO estimates are not likely to be accurate, because it is based on the assumption that Congress is going to do everything they say they're going to do.[88] On the other hand, a Center on Budget and Policy Priorities analysis said that Congress has a good record of implementing Medicare savings. According to their study, Congress implemented the vast majority of the provisions enacted in the past 20 years to produce Medicare savings.[89][90]

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and Obama's plans for health care reform in general, is often nicknamed "Obamacare".[93] The term was usually used pejoratively, but some supporters of the act suggested after being passed that it be embraced and used positively.[94]

A CNN poll of 1,030 adult Americans, conducted over the course of the three days preceding the health care reform bill vote in the House (March 19–21), found that 59% opposed the legislation while 39% supported it. Further breakdown of the results showed that 43% opposed the bill because it was too liberal, 13% opposed it because it was not liberal enough, and the remaining 39% supported the bill.[95] Of the same group of respondents, 56% said the bill "gives the government too much involvement in health care", while 28% said it gives the government a "proper role" and 16% said the government's role would be "inadequate". On costs, 62% believed the bill "increases the amount of money they personally spend on health care", while 37% believed their costs would either remain the same or go down. On the fiscal impact of the bill, 70% believed it would lead to higher deficits, while 17% believed there would be no change and 12% said deficits would decrease. The margin of error was ±3 percentage points.[95]

From wikipedia

Artful Dodger: Well you in America (or some do) want this crappy old system of yours that has allowed the cost of healthcare to get out of control. The OTT raises in past years in costs have been caused by whom?

... Not Obama.

The fact that the healthcare companies have been denying what most of the rest of the 'western world' get in terms of.. little clauses to cop out of covering treatment... who caused that?

... Not Obama.

As for the new costs.. has anyone done a money trail to work out who wants paying more. Looked at the accounts for the companies? Think it's ok for 40 million Americans to be without healthcare... who is already paying for that. You... and if 20 million Americans take up care through this new bill.. Isn't that less money the federal and states have to pay out to cover people getting sick or injured through medicare and the likes??

Tuesday: I'll have to watch a good old pirate film to make up for missing it!!

The Col: .... Aye!!

The Col: Maybe she is trying to throw the scent and is, under her disguise..

Bernice: No it's not.. that was on the 19th.

The Col: Here it's just used as a question.

At the Beck demo tea party members were moaning at the lack of good public transport via the metro.

... well it was the Republicans that blocked investment into the metro system to update it so I hear.

The Col: .... But "eh" means something different!!??!!

Snoopy: Yep.. it's called eating junk food, or food high in the likes of trans fats and other nasty food fillers used to bulk up products, or prolong their shelf life.

Much better if people just learnt how to cook good food.

Artful Dodger: Aye... is also commonly used by British folk... especially those of Scottish heritage.

Artful Dodger: ......... Aye.. I can see it now. Rolling back years to' days of ketchup being a vegetable.

Quite honestly with the obesity level in the USA... a little education on eating well might be a jolly good idea. One point from history on what we eat recently was looking at how habits have reversed.

... The rich use to eat meat and junk, get fat and die, while the poor ate semi vegi and seasonable -- a diet now the rich eat and live more healthily.

Soon.. it'll be coca cola time with Santa in the company colours