Artful Dodger: No you are not, and logic isn't always the best way to think when considering humans.. We are not robots, or computers.

Czuch: Nope, not enough terrorists to do make room by killing them all, besides.. they are the ones who bring in vital supplies that Israel keeps blocking.. you know.. food, meds.

Czuch: Then you'd get to extremes and end up back in the cold war again.

I doubt one country would get filled up, there are plenty of countries to choose from.

"I hate that the Palestine terrorists hide themselves among women and children, shows them for the cowards they really are!"

Then give the Palestinians a bigger country, so over crowding and a over dense population is no longer a problem.

Anf if you wiped the Palestinians of the face of the earth, you'd be in court facing possible termination, just like the Nazi's and everyone else who's committed genocide who's been caught.... You'd have to be on the run for a long time.

... Plus there would be the small matter of Arab brothers might get a little upset and cut oil supplies to the country which committed the atrocity.

..... And the Oil must flowwwwwww!!!

Bernice: .... wasn't your gov doing a deal some 50 years ago, come over to Australia for ten pounds British people!! Emigrate!!!

Czuch: Then regulate properly your health insurance companies. Make them show data on themselves, cap their profits at the expense of USA Joe, and make the insurance system more honest and less prone to being defrauded by Heath companies and doctors in the sway of drug companies.

Czuch: Better tell your corporations to stop making so much fast food then, better tell your gov to face the social problems at hand all have been ignoring for years.

But then they would have to take REAL advice, from REAL people who won't be bullied by the lobbyists or bought off by them.

Is that possible in American government?

Artful Dodger: And yet, you want a more big brother state to now cover child birth and who can raise children...... sounds rather Hitlerish to me.

... reasoning and understanding.. God like qualities I thought.

Czuch: Better for you. No more cheating health companies.

Czuch: 6 Weeks?? Usually it's 4... management can get more, like when Bush took so much holiday off before 9/11 We don't get duvet days either officially....

... And what is with this 70%, explain it more, is it some figure some guy has made up based on one case to demonise our system?

Artful Dodger: A logical consequence? Many who've read the books still can turn out not to have the skills to be a parent.

"your fault..." No, not in all cases. Making such a general statement is neither accurate or wise. If the education is not available or made available, then it is not their fault. If the soul has been so damaged or through genetic disorders.. is it their fault?

... So many factors.

Czuch: Dude.... To think doesn't take money. Capitalism doesn't work either if no-one is productive. Actually, they had (so the legend goes) worked out a way of making Socialism work in the USSR... some people were asked to think it through... But the problem was to many did not want to give up the power and goodies that came with the solution.

Bit like your med companies costing so much to be insured for so little return.

And be reasonable, even the Bible which could ethically be said to be a socialist view but with a spiritual twist recognises no-one is equal in who they are and what they can do.

... Everyone has different Chi.

Artful Dodger: Aye... But should those who maybe bad parents be punished for the fact that they had bad parents, and bad parents before that and before that.

It's like the abuse thing, an abuser is someone who's been abused in some way that happens to be the one in eight. And so on....

I believe you have a problem in America in some areas of proper sex education. Are you saying the victims of such a void should be punished?

Artful Dodger: Not what I hear, I hear that Americans can save 30-60% on health costs in Canada. Plus.. you know a certain number of Americans goto Cuba.

... There was one case where 9/11 emergency workers had been denied full treatment due to insurance matters... The Cuban doc's just said "send them over here, they are hero's, there should be no denying them care"....

Artful Dodger: In every case? It's the parents fault???

And btw... We can get to be seen straight away. GP's are same day service or bookable in certain cases, 24/7 GP service, A&E work fine. And each case is treated individually as per the patients need. I phoned the doc once, described what the problem was and got an ambulance in less then 5 minutes. Tests were done within the hour and the results processed and returned within another hour.

Please.... Don't believe all you here on the net about the NHS, it's not all true.

Czuch: Does it? So only money is a well worth target and goal and things like curing a disease, or finding out the nature of the universe have no merit and can only be worked out in capitalist countries? One says that greatness comes from being who you are, I thought that came from just a basic right to be able to think freely.

Czuch: "most of you who claim to get free health care actually pay up to 70% of your income in taxes to pay for that so called free care!"

No, we pay taxes that cover the needs of the country. Including, defence, education (which includes free college), running jails, paying MP's, regulatory bodies to protect the public from unscrupulous companies ripping the public off, etc, etc, etc.... and yes.. the NHS.

We are not a socialised country, we are a mixed state running both private and public systems side by side. Trains are privately owned, yet the maintenance of the lines is a public corp. Public buildings are built via companies who tender for the contract, certain NHS needs (eg operation kits) are provided by private companies operating to a contract.. but even they have screwed up and some wish the service to go back to being done by the NHS itself due to the fact that the staff did a better job even though it cost more, operation kits were sorted with pride and attention, rather then to a profit.

And do you know the name Alfred Nobel... as well as the Prize named after him, he developed dynamite and before Nitroglycerin. Both your country relied on to build your infrastructure.

Czuch: As for being a super power, the USA has no way come close to the British Empires greatness. Where we are now..
here's some stats!! eheheheheheh

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/best.html

We've been and covered free NHS, if no-one worked the the whole economy must of collapsed from a major crises. But the same could be said about the USA.. what if your economy collapsed completely (maybe someone calls in your national debt) .... What then?

Czuch: Data would be hard on health care stats... Many won't tell even the quality assurance people.

Czuch: More respected the the USA, that's where we are.

Czuch: That's not good is it!! And also you have to figure that maybe a persons policy doesn't go far enough, or some company will weasel out of paying for treatment to make a bigger profit.

Actually that 18,000 is quite conservative. I've heard approx 40,000 a year might be the real figure in deaths that your system.

Czuch: Czuch, we've been THE NUMBER ONE country of all time, our EMPIRE was the biggest ever. But since the end on WWII in recognition of the bravery of those from the Empire, we went to a commonwealth, which the Queen is still the head of.

Bernice: No, if it is urgent... you get seen and sorted. They weigh up the effect of waiting on the patients health. REAL urgent cases goto the top of the list. Eg... if you have a MRI booked at a certain time and a urgent case comes up, you will wait till they are seen first.

"but you might have to wait months to see a specialist for the final results."

Possibly, but if something URGENT shows up, you'll be called in very quickly. All scans/x-rays here are looked at as soon as they can be, which is usually the same day, plus I know with X-rays the people developing them look at them immeadiately after being developed to check for quality and any obvious urgent discoveries.

But that's the UK.

Czuch: Facts....

"More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can't get proper health care, researchers report in a landmark study released Tuesday.

The 193-page report, ''Care Without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late,'' examines the plight of 30 million -- one in seven -- working-age Americans whose employers don't provide insurance and who don't qualify for government medical care.

About 10 million children lack insurance; elderly Americans are covered by Medicare.

It is the second in a planned series of six reports by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) examining the impact of the nation's fragmented health system. The IOM is a non-profit organization of experts that advises Congress on health issues.

Overall, the researchers say, 18,314 people die in the USA each year because they lack preventive services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care.......

Among the study's findings is a comparison of the uninsured with the insured:

* Uninsured people with colon or breast cancer face a 50% higher risk of death.

* Uninsured trauma victims are less likely to be admitted to the hospital, receive the full range of needed services, and are 37% more likely to die of their injuries.

* About 25% of adult diabetics without insurance for a year or more went without a checkup for two years. That boosts their risk of death, blindness and amputations resulting from poor circulation.

Being uninsured also magnifies the risk of death and disability for chronically sick and mentally ill patients, poor people and minorities, who disproportionately lack access to medical care, the landmark study states.

... Also this report has some shocking info...
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/10/29/medical_system_is_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm

Artful Dodger: Yes, our NHS has problems, but it is more efficient and costs less per person then your current system of private insurance unfettered does. It also rates more highly (18th place) then the USA's 37th place.

And you fail to mention that many Americans are trying to get Canadian medical care and are making sometimes false declarations to get it. Maybe if the 500,000+ American uses in a year of the Canadian system (In Ontario alone) stopped then Canadians would get better and quicker treatment... But they are still ranked 30th.. still better then the USA.

... And the one thing about the NHS... Public pressure gets results. In certain areas where the NHS has fallen in quality, the people of the UK have spoken and the government has acted on their behalf to get the problem fixed. It's not a case of lobbyists lining politicians pockets like in the USA and Health insurance companies ripping people off and playing with their health.

Tuesday:

I mean.. I'm 43 and just being taught new things by someone on breathing!!

The Usurper: That's because their cup is full.

I find a fluid mind is best.

Tuesday: Then it must be our use of language So relaxed over here

Tuesday: Healthy humour.... Sometimes involving fake accidents of the bloody kind.

But then you have graphic progs like CSI

Tuesday: Afternoon TV... A great call to some.

And we get plenty of American imports, eg. Boston Legal.

... I think our TV wouldn't be able to be shown much in America. It's more.. liberal in what can be shown and what can be said, and the topics... ...

Tuesday: We also get Al-Jazeera, the for English version. I've got BBC, Sky and Al-Jazeera in our favs.

Czuch: Partially, some of his foreign policies were making waves, and on the otherside the price of oil went through the roof and oil companies saw that as an excuse to rip off people and make huge profits... Also the energy companies saw the same excuse.

Czuch: Um no, your gun policy is a state thing, otherwise how can a bank get away with giving out free rifles for opening an account!!

No... I have realism. I've seen how loopholes can be used and how serial killers and child abusers (from watching stuff that probes such people) on how a face can be put on. I've also seen people who've past their driving test drink drive, or drive so dangerously that they kill or maim others.

A driving test pass means you can drive, it's no guarantee you'll be a good driver though.

rod03801: Sorry, but with the way certain services designed to stop bad bad parents have .. um.. mucked up, such a system just could not work. There is no way you can be sure of what the future may bring to the chosen ones, how an incident may cause one to go bananas.

And how are you going to persuade millions of people to under go temporary 'sterilisation', plus the factor that you are limiting the gene pool is dangerous. Plus the revolts would cause civil war in America, even within republican groups due to certain bits of the Bible celebrating what marriage is about.

....... More money to child protection services and better training would be better. Better education at school over birth control and STI's, free condoms to teenagers, plus other plans to show the FACTS about unprotected sex in adverts would be better.

The Chinese have a system based on fines for families that have over 2 (I think) children. But that is over population control, to stop the Chinese people out growing their country.

Czuch: It's not just Bush, it was the government he had as well. Theydidn't think before they acted. As they say "A good warrior wins first then goes to battle, while a bad one goes to battle and hopes to win."

OPEC was a factor out of Carter's control, just like everyone else found. They were a uncontrollable factor that through only talk could the situation be resolved.... Just like with every other country affected by the oil crises. It was a global event!!

Czuch: Gas wasn't Carters fault. It was OPEC that created that problem, we got hit the same time, so did everyone else. 4 day working weeks we had here, sometimes 3 to save energy.

Czuch: Exactly... sit back and see if he's got it right. If he doesn't... then he won't get re-elected. If he really mucks up. He'll be impeached or resign.

Czuch: I'm not bashing your Pres as he's not shown yet to be an idiot like Bush. If he mucks up through stupid mistakes like Bush I'll make comments.

Charles Martel: Nixon, JFK, etc, etc. I think sometimes people expect your Pres will be like an angel.

Czuch: It's not intended to last forever, just long enough to help your country recover.

Economists will always argue, It's good for job numbers

Czuch: Yes, but if like what has happened now, this slump occurred from people basically relying on a economic 'boom' to go on for ever based on crazy credit and greedy and as descibed "crazy mistakes that you'd only expect from someone who doesn't know what they are doing"... Boom periods based on credit never last. It's an economic fact. The Bubble will burst and not nicely.

This is not doom and Gloom, this is reality. Fact.

But the question is, knowing that such systems have been used in the past and gone "POP", why on earth are were they still allowed to be used?

Thatcher used the "BOOM and BUST" economic system and it went BANG, so now aka Titanic style (lifeboats) rules are being put in place. People are being called to account for their actions.

It's not your people's fault, they are not to blame.. They are taught the American way and fell in love with a dream that ended in a nightmare by marketing pressure, and certain amount of 'tradition' and peer pressure.

The democrats can't save you. you have to save you by believing in your country again, and rediscovering some wisdom over what is allowed and some learning over 'bad mistakes' by bosses of big corporations. Not poor people, but rich men and women.

And FIX that lobbying system of yours!!

Czuch: Oh I was listening and those who were talking wanted him to fail. I think they are miffed at him being a democrat and President. Bad losing basically

Well we over here have had our Government save banks rather then let them go under and put peoples savings at risk. Certain other steps are being done, to prevent 'this' happening again. It's cost the UK people billions, but the alternative..... ....

And what is wrong at making savings and creating jobs? There are areas you full well know that are inefficient... Is sorting them out wrong, as in the long term the investment will pay off.

I look at it like a doctor faced by a patient who has an illness that has to run it's natural course as no cure is available. He/She does his/her best to make the patient as comfortable and pain free as possible, care and concern are part of the oath they took.

The voters thought your President's ideas were better. And as commentated by those who watched him speak..... They felt hope at last.

Czuch: No. I'd say it was more Rupert Murdoch who made Fox news the way it is now. He is well known for creating conservative media with a bias that can leave details out, or play with reality.

Czuch: You are talking like you expect a perfect world... It ain't.

.... well, it is, but that's do with something else, but at the same time it's recognised it isn't perfect as well.

Tuesday: Only know one reason, experiance and education.

But this says more....

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_forty.htm

The Usurper: ... Fox news it appears, or at least the 'editorial' shows would like your President to fail in his plans.

.... But that would mean the USA would end up in such a state that it would make the great depression look like a boom period.

... Funny they want the USA to be on the brink of total economic ruin.

The Usurper: There is the old saying "Life begins at 40"... why... because of an old problem that the Jewish faith found that a certain amount of living is required before certain aspects of Judaism can be taught. For to try to teach before hand would be like planting a seed in barren soil.

Czuch: Are you saying that only the rich should have babies? Are you proposing a somewhat big brother approach to having families where only approved parents can have children and any poor people who have babies are to be prosecuted and jailed?

Liberals rely on the poor and uneducated and the elderly????

Can you explain that? As it seems some capitalists rely on the poor being poor, some parties rely on their voters being 'uneducated' and 'uninformed' to get their votes, and what has the elderly got to do with it?

As for the downtrodden, why are people treading on them? Are some people that empty they need to tread on people to feel good about themselves, or would a gradual process of tackling the problem(s) be a better and greater idea.

The Usurper: Dangerously socialist!!!!!!!! Each country elects their own government, from many party's. Right, left, central and oddball!!

Since we changed our digital services provider I can now see what you mean, as we get to see Fox News (owned and run by conservatives) ... The editorials are certainly and talk bits are certainly.... lacking.