Of course that would only be for membership prizes. Lets say for other prizes (lets say if I wanted to give away a T-shirt, or DVD or something), that would not be something to send to Fencer ahead of time......

...... but then again, I've only seen membership prizes (and a couple cash prizes).

Tournament Listing

On BK2.0, there will be a column that will show how much time is left to sign up (and it is sorted by that time). Tournaments will also start at that time automaticly (witout the creator having to worry about it anymore)

You will also be able to filter the tournament listing by game type I believe.

Actually if you scroll down, I wrote a VERY long post about the "BK Stairs" which never got a reply from him. I had to bring that subject back up to him elsewhere to get a response from him - so don't think he is just ignoring you or others.... he ignores us all at times! <grin>

If Fencer took time to reply to every request or post, he would have time to do nothing else. (And he also likes to try to enjoy the site he build by playing games and chatting at time also.)

I think someone said below it would have been nice even with a quick yes or no. Well with just about anything he post, someone will not be happy. Heck, he tried to simply say there was not going to be auto-passing, and see how much more we posted and complained about that! :-)

IMCK - AGAIN, I'm not against the idea - I just think that there are easier ways to solve the problem. Idea's are great - they help make the site grow. You know me, I'll give advantages and disadvantages for each system. There was a lot giving "advantages" to the system, I pointed out disadvantages to teh system. If you don't agree with them, fine. But please stop trying to put words and thoughts in my mouth. You know I hate when you do that... which is why I think you do it.

HUH? I know you are just trying to bait me again, so I'll try to make this my last post.

Please read below - you and others posted many times about how some tournaments are held up by one player who is playing (within the rules), yet playing too slow for your liking. You don't like to play these people, correct?

Why would it be more taxing on the servers? Well right now the site servers are being taxed to their fullist, and to start making a calculation after every move for every players, and do those calculations against the last time played, how much time is left, and how long the time limit is left for every players on every move - well I have been a system administrator for over 6 years, so I yes - i'm just "guessing" that all those extra calculations would tax the server even more. So maybe Fencer has some "special" server that I've never heard of which could handle all those extra calculations without taxing the servers anymore, and if so - I appoligize. (Even though i don't think Fencer has any magical servers - that is just my opinion)

The calculation for the BKR's do tax the servers a little, but those only happen at the end of every game, so that would be a lot less then after every turn of every game! (again, just my guessing using simple math).

IMCK: Why do I think it is OK to list fast playing players and not make a list of people who play within the time limit? Because you will upset people if you make a "slow" player list, and I do not think it would upset many people to be included in a "fast" player list.

And yes, I will defend any persons right to play within the time limit of the rules. I understand that you and others don't like this, which is why I'm trying to make some "EASY" suggestions on ways to help.

IMCK - You said somewhere below that you liked the idea of a fellowship for the "Fast players who like to play in long-time limit games", but expressed that pawns would not be able to be a part of it.

My suggestion is to start making a list within that fellowship of the pawns which are "Fast Players with long time limit" users. That way once one of you find some pawns which play the way you like, you add them to the list and you know of people who you can invite to games (or even tournaments). NOTE: I would discourage any of the "slow player" list since that would only bring negative thoughts about the fellowship, but as long as everything was kept positive, I think a Fellowship would be a good idea.

IMCK - There is your porblem - You keep thinking I'm saying "DON'T DO THE RATING THING" - I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that I believe there are better solutions then to calculate ratings. Everything else is just made up in the mind of yours - you know, the one where you know little detail about people but still try to catigorize everyone in to catigories.

yes, you hit a nerve - it is the same thing that you do on Uncensored Debate. You know a few datails, and then believe you know everything about me and what I think.

IMCK - I swear you just like to cause trouble and don't read a darn thing! (Same old IMCK)

You are the only one here thinking I don't want to be listed for some privacy issue. If that was the reason, I would be the first to post it!

I understand what you are all saying, but it is still my opinion to solve the problem of playing slow players is to play in faster games. To solve the problem of "unforseen problems", an "emergincy vacation" would solve that.

A suggestion which I'm surprised has not happen before - Why not make a fellowship dedicated to "fast players" - you could have your own tournaments, and invite only the fast players you know of. NOTE: I would strongly discourage it becoming a place to be anti-slow players (listing slow players, etc..), and a pro-fast players - list fast players and such.

So what is the problem again? Is the true problem is that you don't want to play slow players? Or is the problem still that you don't want to play fast games because you might time out because of unforseen events?

As a rook, you already get 30 vacation days - that 1 month! (Add weekends, you already could stay away for about 2 months without playing a game)

If you trully have an emergancy that you may time out on a game, then 1 vacation day probable would not matter to you that much.

Also, possible make it an option where it will not take automatic vacation days for you in case a person does want to time out.

... And if it is something you think you might do often, then I would suggest that you are already playing games with too little time limit, and you should play some with longer time limits.

It's not that I'm against it, but I just think there are easier ways to solve the given problem then to start calculated every users moves and time limits on a server which can barly keep up with what is on it.

The Given problem: "Fast" users don't like players "slow" users. "Fast" users do not want to pick low-time limit games (like 1 day per move, or 2 days per move) in case something happens, and they are not able to play.

Solution: I believe it would just be so much easier to impliment something like auto-vacation day if a time limit is near, then to do all the extra calculations. (I still have not heard that this solution would not work from anyone.)

Rogue - What do you think about the automatic vacation to solve the problem that you have?

Also, I know for myself, and possible others - when my opponents are on-line, I'll sometimes play many many moves in just a few of my games while they are on-line, while not moving in others. Things like that would also give your "false" stats since it could easly look like I move (1 move per day), where in fact I move (many moves per day in a few games), and a lot longer in others.

Anyway, with the problem you said you have - I believe automatic vacations would solve it.

I just don't think many systems would work.

For example, like grenv said - You may make 100 moves a day, but if you have 200 games, that is not a lot. Then again, you may only make 5 moves per day - and if you only have 5 games, well then that is a lot. But the stats would not show it that way.

Time taken to make a move - that could easly be thrown off also. Lets say I come, move in all my games every day at 12:00. Lets say 90% of my opponenets make their moves at 12:01. Well then it may look like I take a lot of time to move.

I think beter suggestion would be to get a vacation system up that will automaticly put you on vacation if you are about to time out. (Limit a week of automatic vacation at a time). That way, for when Rogue or others put extra days as "just in case time - but not really want to move in that time frame", then they could start playing games at the time frame that they want, plus still have the security there for "unforseen circumstances".

Trying to come up with a system to figure out how fast/slow a player plays would never be accurate, and too much trouble to mess with... in my opinion! :-)

I would not like to see a "moves per day per game per game type", since no matter how it is set up, the information would not be very helpful. I think the best system is make it so you can choose the time limit on each game, and play games with lower/higher time limits based on what your schedule will allow.

OK, I took all the examples of "ladders" from the different sources, and came up with a plan for BrainKing which I think would work great - taking some of the best from each system, mixing them all together, and making something that BrainKing can call it's own. And the name of this is:

BrainKing Stairs

Here are the details of the BrainKing Stairs (Still a work in progress):
===========================

* Step 1 - Lowest step (rung) - everyone starts at Step 1

* Multiply players can be on the same step

* You are allowed up to 2 games at a time
--- 1 game where you challenge
--- 1 game where someone challenges you

* You can ONLY challenge someone on the same step or within 3 lower as you. (And has not already accepted a challenge from someone else.) Since some better players will be at a higher step then everyone else, they are also allowed to challenge within 3 steps of themselves. (so if they are on step 6, they can challenge anyone from step 6, 5, 4, and 3 only.)

* You can not play the same person for at least 10 days has passed.

* If you win, you move up 1 step

* If you lose, you move down 1 step

* If you draw, you stay of the same step

--- NOTE: Since up to 2 games can be played at the same time, it is possible to end up playing with someone on a different step. The same win/lose rules apply - You move up 1 step for a win, move down 1 step for a lose. (Does not matter if the other person is multiply steps away from you once the game is complete)

* Since it is possible that some people will make it up to a very high step with possible many empty steps in between players, once a month a process will run to “remove” steps which have no players. So if someone is on step 8, and step 7 is empty. Step 7 will be “removed”, and the players on step 8 will now be on step 7.


===========================
BrainKing Rules:

* All games are 3 day games. (If enough interest, at a later date make different BK stairs for faster/slower players?)

* All games are 2 point matches (one of each color)

* Pawns are allowed to enter only 1 BK Stair. (2 games DO count towards the 20 game limit.)

* Knights are allowed to enter 7 BK Stairs. (Games DO count towards the total game limit.)

* Rooks are allowed to enter unlimited BK Stairs.

===========================
Retirement Rules:

* Sometimes you want to take a break from games, and you don't want to start back at the bottom step. This is where Retirement can be used.

* You can "retire" from the stairs.

* When you retire, you still have to finish any current games (win/lose still count)

* Your step position will be HIDDEN from public view.

* You must stay retired for AT LEAST 1 WEEK

* You may come out of retirement and resume the same step on the stairs as when you left. Once you come back, you will not be able to retire again for at least another week.

* If you membership lowers, you will automatically be put into retirement on some ladders to get you down to your limit. You will still be able to finish any current games, and your step value will be kept hidden in case you renew your membership, where you will be able to start where you left off from.

* Possible make an option to complete quit a ladder also, but if they were to ever rejoin, they will have to start at step 1 again.

= = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = =

OK, that is all for now - my 1st draft of the BK Stairs. Please feel free to give me any comments/suggestions either here, or in my private message box.
… My 2nd draft was done October 2005 when I updated and changed a couple of things.

Rogue - For us not in the Chess Club, could you share how the ladder's work for you?

"Time to renew" - It will be on your main page - Above your games so you can't miss it.

I like how GT (Gold Token) Game site does their ladders also.

First - when you join a ladder, you start on the bottom rung (Called Rung 1) Every night, people who are not playing a game are randomly paired up to play each other.

At the end of a game, the winner moves up a run, and loser moves down a rung (unless you are already at the bottom rung 1, then you stay there.)

So the winner will move up to rung 2. Even night, the system checks to see if there are available players on each rung - if at least 2 players are on rung 2, they will be matched up. Winner of the match will move up to rung 3, loser will move down to rung 1.

Sooner or later, you will get the best people very high up on the rung.

Other minor rules are:

1) Every couple of months or so, they remove any rungs which are empty, and drop the high rungs down. (So if 1 player is in rung 9, 0 players in rung 8 - rung 8 will disapear, and player in rung 9 will drop to rung 8)

I think there is a rule where you can not play the same player twice in a row. Each person has to at least play someone else before they play each other again.

Tournament that would only let a person with (lets say 50 or less games) in is not really a solution - since I know players who have 200+ games, and play very very fast. I know some who have 10 games, and play very very slow.

Suggestion:

I would like to see tournaments where you can choose it to be a "SPEEDY" tournament - that is no vacations, and no weekend days are allowed. That way, 2 days means 2 days.

So Caissus - you would rather no games be played, then some games be played?

I know for myself, i come to this game site to have fun. And if I know after I get off work, I'll be going hot-air ballooning or something, I'll put myself on a vacation day. I will still try to log on while at work, or possible after ballooning - that way i can still enjoy a few games.

A vacation day is a vacation day. it is meant to be used any way you want. And if you want to spend part of your "vacation" on the computer playing games, well it is your vacation do what you like. :-)

Sometimes if I know I can't make many moves in one day, but still would like to come here and make a few moves for about 10 minutes before I have to leave - I would hate to not be able to.

Either way, a vacation day would be used. It would just be a bonus for the people who want games played faster if games can be played while on vacation.

Fellowships - For the most part, they are a group of people with a similar interest. Take for example my Backgammon fellowship, called The Gammon Cube. What you would find there if you joined was a group of other people that is also interested in (back)gammon games. I host montly tournaments just for the fellowship members. Also included is a discussion board that can only be accessed by members of the fellowship. Also if you wanted, you could join a team. Teams don't do much right now, but some day the teams will be able to have challenge matches with other fellowship teams.

A fellowship like the debate club, and some others are mostly there just for the discussion board only. (I think the debate club had a fun backgammon tournament you can join, but it is mostly just for the private discussion board.)

ALSO, you can leave at any time. So feel free to check some fellowships out. If you find you don't like them, you can leave at any time.

Debate club is a fellowship - can be found here where you can request a membership: HERE

Plus there is also a fellowship called Unvensored Debate, which can be found: H E R E

I accept that there will not be any auto-pass - I just disagree that there are many people who don't want it... just a few - very very few as long as it was done correctly so users don't get "lost" during the auto-passing process. (my last post on the subject.) :-)

harley - where was it discussed at? I've searched through this whole discussion board at one time, and remember when Fencer's decision was made.... I didn't remember anyone who disagreed with it..... (as long as it was done correctly)

Andersp - Yes, I know - that is my point. This is Fencer's game site, and if he does not want an option, then it will not be here.

My point was that below, someone made it sound like there were many people against auto-passing, where in fact there are very few who are against it. (As long as it is done correctly - and still lets users see all the "passed" moves if they don't want to get "lost")

I always believe it is Fencer's finaly decision....

But, you keep saying people are split on the issue. Actually, I don't think I have seen 1 person who thinks auto-pass (if done correctly) would not be a good thing.

The "Bulls-eye" will be very helpfull once Battleboats PLUS is added to the site (where you have multiply shots each turn) - since it would be easy to confuse multiply boxes with outlines on it.

I just posted a suggestion on a "Super Horde Chess" game in the Horde Chess board - as a suggestion to make the game more even.

I won't repeat the full post here, but if you are interested and would like to comment on it more - Check out the Horde Chess Discussion Board.

I believe with the new version of BK, Fencer is planning on "orginizing" the tournament page.

I'm not sure exactly how it will be orginized, but hopefully it will include a way to "show off" the prize tournaments a little more.

How about turning the "Brains" into more of a game itself.

For example - How about a reward of 1 brain for each tournament game win, and also give brains as reward for winning a tournament (more brains for bigger tournaments). Or also when you have site tournaments offer extra brains to the winners.

Then instead of having brains buy memberships - have a whole "store" of things that can be bought for brains. (And when I say "store", mostly fun things that will not cost BK anything)

For example, some of the things that could be in the store: (Again, just examples - and example amounts)

10 Brains - You can make a post in a different color

10 brains - the background of a post can be in a different color

20 brains - lets you do both background & font different colors

50 brains - You can turn in for an extra vacation day

100 brains - You can turn in to get an APPROVED picture added to your profile

200 brains - you can get your rook membership expanded by 1 month (2 month Knight)

1000 brains - Let you post an APPROVED message to system news to stay for everyone to read for 2 days.

etc... etc...

The only down side would be that some people who be more prone to cheat to get more "brains" - but would be a cool extra feature.

Also - for Paid Members only - giving pawns another reason to join!

I like how it is now - I know in the past when I was overwelmed with many games, and a slow game site - I would put myself on vacation while still trying to play the few games that I could so I could keep up and not time out.

... plus as someone else mentioned, if I know I have a big hot air ballooning event over the weekend - I will put myself on vacation since I don't know exactly how much time I would have to play. Sometimes I can get on and still play some games, sometimes I don't.

It would be nice to have the option on either having the "Frinds on-line" in the colume on the left, or have the "opponents on-line" in the column on the left.

In the Privacy Page, it says this: "If you want to increase your privacy when playing a game, you can check "Private game" checkbox in game definition page."

Why not also have an option that a player can check to play on this site in "Private Play" mode. I mean if you see that by hiding a game board increasing a persons privacy, you must see that being left off the "spy list" also can increase a persons privacy!

Well as I understand it, Fencer does not have much consern with user privacy - so this would be a great addition to let people know what others in our "gaming community" are doing.

I personally would like to see an option where people can have more privacy here. I have not seen any other person agree with me, so I have started to take the attitued of "when in Rome...."

So now I would like things to be fair to everyone - why just let the users who are on be able to "spy" on what others are doing. If a "log" could be kept - say the last 2 days of activity, then you don't have to be on at the same time to be able to do your spying.

Again, I would like to see an option where people could play game in peace and privacy, but I also know when I'm on the losing end of a battle. :-) (That is until I win the lottery and can make my own game site!)

.. I mean we can already track what a user does while we are on, this would be a way to track a user while we are off!

Beter yet, why not keep lets say 2 days of "What a person is doing" log that people can actually see everything a person has done for the past 2 days!

(NOTE: I'm normally against privacy issues like this, but since it seems like I'm in the minority here... well lets just go all out then - lets not limit people tracking others to just while they are on - lets give everyone an equal chance to track each other.)

... about getting a "return reciept" on a message sent to a user - actually no, it could come in useful - for example I'm waiting on 1 person to enter a couple of the "fast start chapionship" tournament, which I sent them a seperate message to ask if they were interested or not, they have been on but they have not signed up or answered. Since this person has actually qualified for this tournament, I don't want to start it without them (unless they don't want to play.) But as right now, I'm not sure if they don't want to play so they are ignoring the message, or if they are the type of person that just does not read their message box very often.

Or are you talking about the "Deleted message" post - not joking about that either - it would be nice to know if post get deleted (or even edited) - it's annoying to see a post which is a reply to another post which is now gone.

That is a good suggestion.

When someone deletes a message, instead of actually getting rid of it, have everything in it removed but leave the words *Message removed by XXXX* - that way you also know who removed a message.

How about letting paid members be able to track messages - that is see when another person has read a message.

Since I don't have the time to keep track of a user and what a user is doing - but I sent them a message but I don't know if they have actually read it yet, or if they are one of the people who does not read their message box very often. If there was a way to get a "Person A read your message at XX:XX:XX time" would be a cool way to keep track of people!

When a player is removed from a tournament that you create, you get a message telling you which people were removed. Would it be easy to make that list of people linkable to their profile?

I sometimes like to take a look at the persons profile, and would be easier to just click on thier name then to have to go the the players list and search on the names.

Fencer - I know you are still working on it, and I'm not complaining or anything - just curious. How close is BK2.0 to being ready to test/use? Days, weeks, or still months?

Actually that option is still there - Fencer just "hid" the buttons! So if you know how the site works, you can still ban and hide a user. (until Fencer reads this and then he actually turns off the option) :-)

My original feature request of making an option for paid members to play in stealth mode still stands. I mean like Fencer has said, this is a game site - and to have a current NON-GAME "feature" that actually hurts some players game play just does not make since. This is a game site, not a person tracking site! I will be happy to debate/discuss this more with anyone in the debate club.

Again ughaibu, I agree that it is a feature that should not be removed.

All I'm saying is that there be an option for the few that it is an intrusion of privacy and used against them so this great site is less enjoyable - to be able to toggle that option off for them would only bring more enjoyment to this site. - that is be in a "stealth mode". - and possible just an option for the members who contribute to this site, like buying a membership.

The option should not be removed because I agree, a lot of users do like it. But for others, it brings down their enjoyment of this site - and this site is a great site, and to have an option which has NOTHING to do with game playing that HURTS some players game playing experiance is just stupid, in my opinion.

... and if I person always wanted to stay hidden, I think that would be their choice. Some people leave their house door unlocked, others lock it. Some leave their window shades up, some have them down. Everyone is different, and not everyone likes this "feature".

I'm not saying to take it away since that would upset the people who like it, but to give users an option to use it or not would please most everyone.

Midnight - I had another user basicly follow me and post crapping messages about me even after I asked them to stop.

Why can't I just play games, read the board, and enjoy this great game site in peace?