gambler104: Number 435152 is well known at IYT for posting nonsense.Just because he likes Topalov,he thinks Kramnik is not as good.

435152: I don't see how you can claim that the better player did not win. Kramnik won despite the fact that he forfeited a game. I think he deserved to win.

Kiry:
your man won the wwc title.
i am disappointed that a better player did not win.
i should quit in this chess discussion board.

swordswisher: Not sure if this has gone to air yet but the intended games (if they eventuate) would be of a 10x8 chess variant not of "standard" chess. The one trying to organise this tournament has been around this site over the years but less so of late. If you hear more of this torunament please post it in the 10x8 forum.

WQ :)

435152:
www.VESELINTOPALOV.net simply supports the player it is devided to and I think sponsored by.

according to www.veselintopalov.net Topalov was not treated equally
The day before game 12
.....last night the six guards of Veselin Topalov's villa have been found sleeping while being on duty. The guards have been caught by a patrol car. The news was reported by Zhivko Ginchev for the Bulgarian website topsport.bg. At the same time the villa of Kramnik is guarded by three times more professional guards from the Russian army.
other news
Presidential airplane not allowed by Russian authorities:
On Wednesday Bulargian president Georgi Parvanov chartered a flight for Veselin Topalov. The plane was to take off for Bulgaria immediately after the championship finished, reported focus-sport.net. Authorities, however, did not allow the plane to enter Russian territory. No reason was given.
" This is a scandal," Mr. Silvio Danailov said,"nobody explained why the plane was not allowed to land in Russia." At the same time, a plane will come for Vladimir Kramnik and is granted full access to the airport in Elista.

swordswisher:
it is hard to believe that Fischer will play Karpov, both are over the peak chess player, Fischer didnot play him when he was at his peak, and forfeited the match to Karpov, after more than 30 years later they are willing to sit down face each other on the chess board? what is prize fund for this match? who is the sponsor?

Followed some links on rec.chess looks like Fischer-Kaprov will be on chess.fm tonight!

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/browse_thread/thread/0cf23977299e6b1f/274063715e1311bd#274063715e1311bd

http://www.chessclub.com/chessfm

435152:
Fisher can say many different things. Not all of them is truth.
The 12 game is draw. So on board 3:2 Kramnik wins.
But due to unfair decisions of the first appeals committee the score is equal.
If doping test will show nothing, i think that Kramnik has all reasons to say:
"I will not recognize Mr Topalov as World Champion under these conditions" as he promissed to do after game 11.

Kiry:
Fischer also once said that Kasparov is a liar.
lets talk about the WCC match, now the last (12) game is under way, i look into the position Black is in a better position to win.
it is funny that all 12 games are played with d4, and most of the time, Kramnik was playing defensive, i will say it is the pawn pushing game, Topalov pushed pawns forward and Kramnik just kept his pawns at the last 3 ranks on the board.

435152:
Fisher has his own opinion:
"all the Russain chess players are not trustfull"
I want to say that it's only Fisher's opinion,
not truth in the last instance.
And Kasparov did not agree with it, as I think he does not approve 911.

according to www.veselintopalov.net
The day before game 11(updated).Oct 9,06:58PM
......At the same time not much informatio has been released about Kramnik's rest day. However, strange news was reported by Zhivko Ginchev. He said that Kramnik refused to make a doping test after game 9. The test has been requested by the chief of the medical commission Iana Belin, as reported by topsport.bg. "Everything here is very strange, but what can we do about it," commented Silvio Danailov for the Bulgarian newspaper Novinar. From the Bulgarian delegation also find it strange that such a test comes after the two consecutive victories of Topalov.

also from the Press conference game 11- Oct10,05:25PM
...............
................
- Veselin, are you disappointed by today's result? This was your last White...
- The result is okay. Of course, I always want to win, but the result is appropriate. I did not have sufficient advantage to talk about winning seriously.

-Now you have to play your last game as Black...
-There is a rest day, and I will be preparing for the game 12. Right now I am happy to have passed the doping test easily! I'll start thinking about the final game tomorrow...
----------------------------------------
Kramnik also passed his doping test? i do not know

I have not seen any open letter supporting FIDE Champion Topalov published on ChessBase.Com until today, there are two open letters on Topalov side , one from the " famous Bulgarian grandmasters" the other one is from the President of Bulgaria

first read what the ChessBase.com try to defend that their position was neutral.
from Chessbase.com:
"...We did not leave a single letter written by grandmaster or title chess player in support of Topalov unpublished. Below, incidentally, is the first we found-and it took some trouble locating it"

from "famous Bulgarian grandmasters" open letter called "Hand off from the World Champion!"
.....the high point of this dirty aggression was reached with the open letter of Russian grandmasters Peter Svidler and Evgeny Bareev. What a moral position do they represent, since they are demonstrably part of the Challenger's staff? of what do you, dear sirs, accuse Topalov ? That he fights and does it openly and honestly?
from the President of Bulgaria:
"... It is no secret the representatives of the match organizing nation often have certain advantages, I firmly stand the idea that political games must not influence situation on the board...."

Kiry:
Fischer has his own opinion about the 911, think it this way, if all women are beautiful there will be no beautiful woman.

I think that the rules of all serious tournaments should be restricted.
1. Drag test for all players.
2. Players should be isolated from other people during the game.
It is strange that under the screen that isolates players from spectators Topalov does not shows his famouse tactic abilities.

435152:
I agree with Kasparov's opinion.
For example Fisher approved Trade Centre attacks on september 11. I think only strange man can do that.

Kasparov was interviewed in the Wall Street Journal:
" Mr. Fischer may have been difficult and unstable, but he was a sportman whose complaints were based on principle and a sincere desire to improve the standards of the chess world. Tournament conditions and prize funds improved immeasurably thanks to his efforts."
Kasparov does not understand Fischer who always accuses the Russian chess players cheating.

Fischer will request an urine test. he never trust the Russian chess players.

i still believe an urine test from both players is the right thing to do.
Kramnik is a suspect to take drug, people are talking about just computer assistant cheating.

Kramnik won't continue the tie-break match then FIDE has a decision to make, who is the champion?

From later games we know that Topalov is a very strong tactic player. But in the match with Kramnik he does not see mate in two in second, makes loosing move in tenth.
What is the cause of this mistakes?

435152:
I think that Fisher made a mistake.
Korchnoy have said the same things
20 years ago, and now he is sending
letter to support Kramnik.

435152:
I think that people and sportsmans from
other countries would behave themselfs
the same way in the same position.

WhisperzQ:
Ok, let's try without "personal attacks".
But I don't think that moderated letters
(except one, sorry) contain them...

I have deleted a few posts are they are considered personal attacks and do not add substance to the debate. They have not been copied to their owners. If this goes the same way again ability to post will be retricted (and for some withdrawn).

This is an interesting debate, please keep it there.

WhisperzQ

the first time i learnt about chess is the famous Fischer-Spassky match in 1972, at that time, the player could seal his move inside an envelop to adjourn the game, and left the work for his second to analyze the position of the unfinished game, the player just continue to play the moves next day that his second provided for him. i also notice that the player could walk away from the playing board anytime he wanted.
as a chinese chess player, i was very surprised that this kind of action would be allowed in chess match, it is 100% prohibited in chinese chess match.
now the " sealing move inside an envelop after 40 moves" is no more a rule.

Kiry:
accoding to Fischer, all the Russain chess players are not trustful, if you read Fischer's book, you know about it.

Bareev and Svidler, 2 friends, colleagues and former seconds of Kramnik, they sent open letter to suport
the Russian.

two Russian grandmasters and former chess world champions, Boris Spassky (now he is a French citizen) and Kasparov (now he is a politician also the classical world champion creator) expressed their opinions in public on the Topalov-Kramnik match, they claimed that Fischer is not Topalov, Fischer's complaint was to the organizor about playing condition but not to his opponent, the question is: will Fischer complain if he was in Topalov position?
the answer is Fischer will do the same thing, he will protest Kramnik's strange behaviour to visit toilet frequently for suspecting the Russian is cheating, please remember that Fischer always accused the Russian cheating.
now Karpov, another ex-world champion,(Fischer forfeited the whole match to him) and Krochloi(3 times challenge to Karpov's world title) they also sending letters to Chessbase.com to support Kramnik, ha, these two are also Russian or Russian original.

pawnme: Here here! Good point.

Maybe it's a smart strategy; everyone's concentrating on why Kramnik is on the toilet instead of analyzing the game.

Maybe he had crib sheets from computer analysis that he was referring to.

Topalov won the game 9 with white, now Topalov is leading 5:4
what Kramnik was doing? he was playing for a draw, his play is very passive that is his style.
it looks like Kramnik is finished at this stage.
Topalov is the better player should win the match.
should Kramnik sue the FIDE if he lost by two games?

kramnik visited the toilet 25 times in one game and 18 times in another, in the first 2 games, in 1 and half hour, 11 or 12 times.
the explanation of Kramnik's team is that Kramnik uses the toilet space for walking. According to the opinion of the Appeals Committee, this explanation is unsatisfactory, as Kramnik was staying each time 1 or 2 minutes in the toilet.

Topalov won the game 8 with black, now the score is 4:4
i heard about Topalov showed his confidence and well preparation for the game by moving very very fast.
this just kept his opponent sitting on his chair and Kramnik got no time to visit his loved toilet as frequently as he wanted.
very good idea indeed by Topalov's team!

435152:
1. Topalov(with his team) stronger than Kramnik(with his team). The team is the result of the player's work and so on... Once more:
Topalov little bit stronger than Kramnik.
2. Happened so that in this match Kramnik was leader.
3. Topalov uses unfair methods.
4. I don't like it.

435152:
1,2. I would say that chances of Topalov are better.
3. As for me, I prefer classical match under
FIDE control.
4. I prefer fair strong play, and don't like unfair very strong play.

Kiry:
my choice: Topalov 2813>2743
how you get your rating? is your rating unfair?

Kiry:
1. if Topalov lost this match he would be the challenger the next time.
2. if Kramnik lost he will never be the challenger again because of his playing style.
3. the next world chese championship should be played as classical or under FIDE world champion system?

One point of view.
1. Topalov is playing better than Kramnik.
a. Begin of the game Topalov > Kramnik
b. Middle of the game Topalov >= Kramnik
c. End of the game Topalov <= Kramnik
2. Does Kramnik use drugs or cheating nobody knows.
3. Does Topalov use drugs or cheating nobody knows.
4. Topalov(his team) uses unfair methods.

Results:
1 Kramnik - very strong player with rating 2743.
2 Topalov - very strong unfair player with rating 2813.
Make Your choice.

bengood24: That's probably the best argument against cheating. He could have lost the first game and should have done no better than drawn it and in game two, he was just dead lost.

Nightstorm: Ritilan and speed are actually the same drug. The difference is quantity and Ritilan is never laced with any kind of cycotropic to give you the holucinations.

I've played plenty of games where my moves are almost all recommended by the computer. It's not that uncommon in some types of positions. The computer usage thing has a lot to do with the time spent on the move also. It's clear to me that he's not cheating. He should have been down 1/2 to 1 1/2 after game 2 instead of up 2-0. I think Topalov's manager is more of a problem here than Topalov himself. I figure he probably made a comment that Kramnik was going to the toilet a lot and Danailov just made a big mess out of it.

Kramnik is more than 70% computer, and less than 30% human. according to Topalov's team, a protest was filed to FIDE that all the first 6 games Kramnik played almost 70% of the moves matched the first recommandation of a computer program called "xxxxxx9".

now the seventh game of the world chess championship is ended with a victory for Topalov with black, the score is tied at 3:3. my prediction was right that i predict Topalov will not lose this match even he was behind Kramnik by one point. please read my post on 1 October 2006,23:25:30

Kramnik forfeited his 5th game under protest, and FIDE decided to give the point to Topalov, the championship match continue with the score 3-2 for Kramnik, and Kramnik is playing under protest, he threatened to sue the FIDE after the match concluded.
another forfeited world championship game is the famous Fischer vs Spassky in 1972, the match was played also under the FIDE and the forfeited game was counted in Spassky's favour, and Fischer forfeited the 2nd under protest, the only different is Fischer was behind by 1-0.

in my opinion the foefeited game should be counted.
and KRAMNIK'S threaten to sue is very bad for the whole chess world. who is going to be the next sponsor?

now the world chess is became very politics,Garry Kasparov is a politician in Russian, and he is the one created the so-called classical world champion, Karspavov and Short broke away from the FIDE to play their world championship match.
now there are many grandmasters sending letters to support Kramnik and critize the FIDE and the FIDE presendent llyumzhinov, and those grandmasters are always not not llyumzhinov's supporters.

both players are using computer to do home preparation for this match, and both are d4 players.(from first game to the latest game)
Topalov is not FISCHER who always played the first move e4 before the match against Spassky but he did not play a single e4 game during the whole match. also FISCHER is the one who forfeited the 2nd game.
one more thing, FISCHER was playing against the mighty Russan team, and he always accused the Russan was cheating.

Beren the 32nd:

yes, one thing Topalov should do is every time when Kramnik get up from his chair going to his restroom, Topapov get ready to punch the clock.

Walter Montego: You asked "Does your clock run while you're in the restroom and it's your turn?". Yes it does, from chess at the highest level, right down to local tournament level.