There was alot of things said on checker solutions though AP!! Nemesis springs to mind if my memory serves me right.

Especially by people of the feminine persuasion. But the alarm bells go off when a mediocre player becomes a world beater overnight. Again, no names.

APolaris: I know one of the names you listed and was informed he was using a program. Because that's second hand info I won't say who but this person can very easily be distracted from play.

I don't know Whitey or Jess. My name there is Purple. Just because someone has a program doesnt mean they always use it.

I'd say some of the ones on the ladder are just humans at least as strong as I am, for the sheer fact that I've seen them lose games with mistakes no program would make. These include the maggot, jesse priest, jack kx, and whitey1939 in particular.

Would you like to play me? If you'll give me your IYT name, Purple, I'll issue a challenge to your name when I have one open, even if my ladder rank is above yours. That just doesn't mean much to me.

If APolaris is Perez he is a pretty good player. Number 14 on IYT ladder and looking at the one's ahead of him they are 90% programmers.

I ain't seen the name of Perez in Donkeys. Always telling Porkies, he was. A complete Richard the Third, you ask me.

The name Anthony Perez is well known in the checkers community. We are close on the IYT checker ladder as I went from 40 to 15 after beating Manbear. I won't last there long as I am losing to Esperanza.

Oh, I don't design programs. I'm just a guy who's been playing checkers for about 3 years and has yet to attend a live tournament, although my future plans lie in that direction. You might've seen me on itsyourturn.com as Anthony Perez or on msn gamezone as _xz_Lloyd_zx_

My purpose is just to play games for fun. Checkers isn't ALWAYS about business. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing the actual ability of WCC, but it's not the reason I asked about playing a game. I just like a challenge. Anyway, if you feel that way, you can accept the other end: just us as humans playing.

Oh, as for checker pieces instead of pawns... and numbers instead of chess notation... this seems to exist already. Just click next to (change) near the top right of the screen where it says "row-column" while you're playing a checkers game. It will give you the options you want.

In that case let's play a personal game, if you like. I'm looking for opponents anyway. And I would be willing to keep the games not private if you like. Or you can just use a downloadable version of WCC, although I'm sure it would be weaker than the full thing.

By the way, it would be nice to have 3-move games on this site. Does anyone else agree? If so, invite me to a game or something and declare a 3-move opening. Hopefully random and drawable. I don't mind playing the 12 newly approved ones since I've played those more than most other non-GAYP openings.

Yes, since I know Ed would be using the program he wouldn't be asking friends and others to view his games and suggest moves to him. This is the reason I keep games private: to prevent that.

I hope the games (if they are played) will not be private games so we checker fans can follow the moves.

I haven't played against WCC before. I was going strictly on results from postal games, mostly those from the ladder that used to be on Wyllie's site.

I have yet therefore to actually evaluate this more recent version of WCC. Would you like to invite me to play a few games with it, Ed?

When I play Chinook the return moves are instantaneous. This is all second hand knowlege but I understand that when you play against Nemesis as long a you make book moves it is very quick. If you go off book the program evaluates your moves and gives the operator a choice of replies and assigns each one a value which takes a bit longer. You can put the Nemesis on "deep study" in which it can take a lot of time or accept a move which is the result of a quick study. I have no doubt Ed's program is more state of the art and high tech. I believe he has said that the operator does make a differance, everything else being equal.

Its knowing your beat when players are on line and wont play more then 2 moves at a time. :)

It has come to my attention, the programers do not play the checker variations on this site..isn't that funny....

Many were one time friends and as much as I would like to drop a dime like they did I know that it would not be right. But some of them will tell you if you happen to get a game with them..and some will not.

I think this is the first time I have agreed with you mastermind.

Ok now im interested also.

Who are Nemesis users on here Bill?

On IYT, GT and here the Nemesis uses aren't taking any losses and their only draws are against each other.

I would keep it a bit hush hush on here that you think Nemisis is the best. LOL

BTW...Why private games??

I find nothing illegitimate about practicing with a computer to learn the game more strongly. Only with using one to make your moves for you in games.

As for Cake SS, it's ok. I'd rank it fourth among programs, behind WCC, Kingsrow (best free one) and Nemesis, the real best. My reason Cake isn't ranked top is its opening play has weaknesses, especially in the weaker 3-move openings and in some GAYP openings like the Souter, while Kingsrow really doesn't have many opening book weaknesses, and for the few it does contain, it never plays those lines. I've only beaten it in 3 drawable lines of play while I've beaten Cake SS on about 5.

Nope, I'm bothering Fencer with the Checkers graphics since two weeks (I know that this is a thema here since two years :-)) and he promised to change the graphics this weekend or at least in near future. We'll see...

Graphics seem to be being made for all these new games, some look pretty tricky yet checkers is always left behind and people are still being put off becoming members of BK because of the pawns.

I don t see any games of Checker.:(
must be the stupid checkers board.

There's nothing wrong with playing against a computer program to test ideas, and they're great when you want an opponent and don't have a human handy. Well, to a point, anyway.

I don't understand what you mean by not sporting, unless you're implying that people are using engines to decide their moves for them. That's not really what I'm talking about.

Another thing about game engines--there is the challenge involved with programming them. I haven't attempted an actual engine yet, but I've got an AI system designed that I plan to try out one day. Who knows, I might just use checkers and build an engine myself.

Not sporting? *shrug* I suppose it depends on the type of challenge you're looking for.

Oh yeah -- to answer your question about studying by myself with a checkerboard... well, the computer can point out things I may never see on my own. One doesn't sharpen iron against clay, and I can sharpen my mind a lot better against something that sees more than I do. That's the thinking, anyhow.

I do not understand about using checkers engines and such. Why not just buy a book and checker board and study your little heart out?? It may take a long time to do it and try to somewhat understand it, but using programs etc, is just not a sporting way of playing the game.

My thoughts anyway :oD

Thanks for the incite but saying the moves are simplistic is probably one of the biggest understatments I have heard about the game. It can take a lifetime to become a master and thats by studying for hours on end every week and you still wouldn't be even close to to knowing all the ins and outs of the game. You should delve deeper into the game and see how complex it actually is. :o)

Cake has always been a major program. It is excellent.

I know some of you guys like checkers engines. Cake sans Succi is one that I downloaded with Checker Board, a Windows interface. How does this it hold up to your favorites?

Checkers was boring. I mean, sure, I had three brothers and at least as many cousins (sometimes more) to play against. After a while, though, only one of them could beat me reliably. Checkers was too... easy. Then Dad taught me chess, and checkers went out the window. Chess was for adults, and I was growing up. Checkers was a child's game, right? Chess with training wheels?

Well, yes and no. It was a child's game only because children were playing it. I downloaded a checkers program this weekend, and after getting my butt kicked several times (I did win one game, out of about six), I remembered that my roommate mentioned liking checkers. So, I installed it on his computer and watched him get *his* butt kicked a few times. Then we started thinking. We switched to two-player mode and had a proper human versus human game. And you know what?

We discovered that checkers isn't quite the child's game that we remember from bygone years. It's every bit as full of tricks and traps as chess, even if a little simplistic in its move choices, even if a little weird with its forced jumps that enable you to draw your opponent's pieces out and force double and triple jumps. No, it ain't chess (my roommate is thankful for that), but somewhere, somehow--sometime when I wasn't looking--it grew up into a sophisticated game. It taunts you mercilessly, makes you think and then reconsider. It tests your powers of visualization and logic.

Checkers is an interesting game.

We could use one more person to make 4 in the My Fair Lady checker tournament. Please sign up if intereted.

I believe the advantage is a miniscule percentage point and really only comes into play at the masters/championship level. Some great players swear by white.

I would like to know why any colour can go first on here, but in a proper game black always goes first :o)

I have never heard of one nor seen one advertised. Pro-checkers (3 move openning) is not a variant and is covered by most checker programs.

Is there a program to play any of these checker variants?

Probably don't need queens or parachutes and the kings could have a little dot on them..for just straight checkers. The variants could be added later.

Except there are no kings, queens or parachutists with the halma graphics...

The Halma graphics make better checker pieces than the chess men we have now.

Feel free to draw the graphics, gooner. For Fencer to change the current graphics with new ones is a 3 minute or less job (moving and maybe renaming the images).

I am no expert on the subject but it shouldn't be hard to do

Would we have to wait for parachutists?

I don't think backgammon or five in a line have pieces for kings, queens, or parachutists.

I don't know - that's a good question. Maybe you could send him a message about it.

Why can't fencer use the pieces used for backgammon or five in a line???

You could ask him if he received them - and if he did, you could ask him why he didn't want to use them so maybe you (or someone else) could make better ones.