Artful Dodger: and I agree with you as she did have one other child, who was eventually brought up by his catholic grandmother...such a sad case

Bernice:  I would always opt to save the life of the mother in those cases.  Without exception.  That is the predominate view of most protestant churches. 

Artful Dodger: ***I'm unclear as to what extent the law would go with regard to the health of the mother***

Well I do know from personal experience (albeit 40 plus years ago and my SIL) the Catholic Church would sacrifice the mother to save the child.

She was allowed to die to save the child. At the time I was married to the brother of a priest (catholic) and he said because Alison was a convert the child was Gods child and Alison wasn't...or words to that effect....it was so long ago....I no longer belong to that church so don't know if their policies might have changed, so please don;'t jump on my case......

it illustrates well the range of reasons a person may have when it comes to having an abortion.  When it comes to the "health" of the mother, I want to know what is meant by that.  What exactly is the acceptable range of health concerns?   Why is that such a troubling question to answer?

Social Reasons (given as primary reason)     
       - Feels unready for child/responsibility     25%
       - Feels she can't afford baby     23%
       - Has all the children she wants/Other family responsibilities     19%
       - Relationship problem/Single motherhood     8%
       - Feels she isn't mature enough     7%
       - Interference with education/career plans     4%
       - Parents/Partner wants abortion     <1%
       - Other reasons     <6.5%
     TOTAL:     93%
(Approx.)

Bernice:  Gee, and I thought I was asking a fair question too. 

Hey isnt it wonderful to at least know that people are STILL reading this page even if they don't comment (until it suits them of course)


There is always something that will make a child eat his vegies LOL

Artful Dodger: of course you would

anastasia:  I'm unclear as to what extent the law would go with regard to the health of the mother.  What exactly does that mean?  I think some clarification would be nice. 

Artful Dodger: I was going to stay off this board because,well,you guys annoy the crap out of me with your right winged,left thight middle foot crap you blab about all the time but this one AD

(like being fat is unhealthy and I don't wanna be fat and unhealthy so I want an abortion). I'm not clear on this and neither are many others.
If you are seriuosly SO unclear on that,that you would think getting fat would fall under this,then maybe you shouldn't be a teacher...THAT is just ignorance.....

Czuch:  Yeah, it's hard to find an unbiased source of info on this anywhere.

coan.net:  The problem with the law (as in so many of these kinds of laws) is that there are ambiguous phrases.  Here's how the law reads.

"A government may not (1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to
choose - (A) to bear a child; (B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to
viability; or (C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where
termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or
(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in
paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities,
services, or information.

In item C, what does it mean exactly the "life" or "health" of a mother.  Protect in what way?  From death?  Or from other things (like being fat is unhealthy and I don't wanna be fat and unhealthy so I want an abortion).  I'm not clear on this and neither are many others. 

"[The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA)] would sweep away hundreds of anti-abortion laws, policies" - National Organization of Women web site.See Here

This can't be a good thing. 

" Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, joined
pro-choice members of Congress and activists at a Capitol Hill press
conference to introduce legislation that would codify Roe v. Wade into law and guarantee a woman's right to choose in all 50 states. " - NARAL

It seems that this law would remove states rights.  I thought the US was in favor of States Rights???

If FOCA is passed, it would automatically overturn

• State abortion reporting requirements in all 50 states
• Forty-four states' laws concerning parental involvement
• Forty states' laws on restricting later-term abortions
• Forty-six states' conscience protection laws for individual health care providers
• Twenty-seven states' conscience protection laws for institutions
• Thirty-eight states' bans on partial-birth abortion
• Thirty-three states' laws on requiring counseling before an abortion
• Twenty-eight states' laws requiring a waiting period before an abortion, and
• Sixteen states' laws concerning ultrasounds before an abortion

see here

I think there's a lot more to this law than people think.  It will be a sad day for the pro life movement and unborn children (and parental rights) if this becomes the law of the land.  There will be a huge fight over this one and if Obama succeeds, the next Republican president will overturn it.

coan.net: okay, thanks, I am sure the information I got was at least somewhat biased, since it came from a Catholic nun cousin of mine...

Czuch: I don't want to debate for or against anything, but did want to post this:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/choice.asp

Just in case what you posted gives someone the wrong information.

Czuch: well that wont win him many friends

Czuch:   Exactly right.  And partial birth abortion is nothing short of genocide on babies.   He needs to rethink that position.  I certainly don't want my tax money funding such things.

Czuch: I mean.... I have a right to plaster myself with tattoos too, or plaster myself with booze, or even plaster my walls..... but does the government give me money to do it??????

President Obama is planning to sign the FREEDOM OF CHOICE ACT. (FOCA)
This is something he promised to do if he got elected.

Very briefly, FOCA would:
- Eliminate any regulations that currently protect women from unsafe abortion clinics.
- Force American taxpayers to fund abortions.
- Force every state to allow partial-birth abortions. (They are not forbidden.)
- Oversee the conscience rights of doctors, nurses and hospitals that oppose abortion.
- Strip parents of their right to be involved in their minor daughter's abortion decision.


Many people believe that abortion is murder..... and even though the laws say that a woman has a right to choose abortion as an option, where do we(our government) get off saying that people who oppose this should be forced to contribute money towards it????

Artful Dodger: Yeah before you get in trouble on here. Nite

Foxy Lady:  ratts, I gotta go to bed.  Just when it was getting fun.  :)  

Artful Dodger:

Foxy Lady:  Gotta keep you guys up on the latest stuff  

Bernice:  Laughter is good medicine.  I can't believe how funny politicans can be.  Al Gore actually appeared before congress and ask for some money from the <span>economic stimulus package to assist with global warming research.  global warming and economic stimulus?  Oh yeah, I see the connection.  

Artful Dodger: I guess you do.

Foxy Lady:  I subscribe to lots of blogs.  lol

Artful Dodger: Where do you all these articles?

Artful Dodger: oh my gawd.....my sides are sore from laughing

Guess what Brazil did that the US has been refusing to do?  Look for oil!  And they found a ton of it.  Well, a lot more than a ton.  Meanwhile, the US is looking for solar powered vehicles (these will be sold in Alaska) and battery powered vehicles too (long extension chords are in massive production as we speak)  

Bernice:  Just a little  ;)

Foxy Lady:  all of it uphill    I'd rather work with little kids.  

Artful Dodger: do I detect a little bit of sarcasm here

Artful Dodger: Obama has a long hard road ahead of him.

Foxy Lady:  Yeah cept if you told me to jump, I'd probably ask how high.    Did you know that Obama is against unreasonable gun control?  He's being accused of being a "centrist."  That's a good thing for those of us on the right.  Pelosi wants him to move left but she really wants him to do her bidding.  Obama won't do that.  He's a smart politican in many ways.  I hope he works with the republicans on this "stimulus" / pork spending package.

Artful Dodger: HAHAHAHHA.....you silly buggar :)

Artful Dodger: Ok but i'm sure i'll need Bernice's help.

Foxy Lady:  Yeah, he can take it too.  She's our number one blog subscriber.  Wanna join the AD/Czuch fan club here?  All ya gotta do is listen to us ramble, and then disagree with us, and then sit back and watch us dismantle your arguments point by point.  Then Bernice comes on and puts us in our place and we start all over again.   It's great fun!  

Artful Dodger: I love it when Bernice lets Chucky have it.

Foxy Lady:  You got it right.  ;)  Yeah politics can be light fun as well as tense.  I like it both ways. ;)

Dark Vamp:Hmmmmm guess i got brain fog

Foxy Lady: Nope

Artful Dodger: This board is getting entertaining. Did i spell that right?

Artful Dodger: yes but you are a smart-ass

Bernice:  I knew what he meant. 

Czuch: i stand corrected LOL

Bernice: I use the word broke not to mean monetarily broke, but broken, as in it doesnt work anymore... that our system itself is fine, a blimp on the radar doesnt mean we need any radical changes like socialism will bring.

Czuch: what you mean is YOUare not broke, and as long as you have the "I'm alright Jack" mentality you don't really care of others.

I was a little disappointed with the 3-D commercials, I thought more things would fly out at you

Bernice: ..Im only trying to stir him up because Ive found over the years it don't take too much

damn, I fall for it evrye time too!

Bernice: i hardly care... someone else mentioned they didnt like it to me, and I thought a bit about it, and just wondered if anyone else had felt like that... then I thought about the canadian anthem, which is the next most familiar to me, and i ddnt recall it ever being anything than the stoic version we all know...

I dont mind change either, but I like the saying " if it isnt broke, dont fix it" the US has come a long way on the back of capitalism and free markets, with many ups and downs along the way, whats the point in changing that? I dont mind a tweak here and there, changing times and technology etc, but socialism isnt a tweak, its a radically different direction... we are not broke even close to that bad, IMO!

Bernice:Are you sure it's not me you're talking about? 

Artful Dodger: rofl....Im only trying to stir him up because Ive found over the years it don't take too much