(V): If I'm the President, I hire and independent firm to substantiate the claims in the videos and then I put up a few billion in tax money to fun production of these things. (if it's true).

I suspect that hidden in the secrets of science are a vast number of ways to produce clean energy (or cleaner energy) and we ought to be exploring some of these claims on a grand scale.

I also suspect that the big oil lobby is working hard to squelch such and idea.

Iamon lyme: No they are not enough... But with other stuff, they can reduce our reliance on it. When you see your countrymen fitting hydrogen converters to their cars, which are powered by water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nld6HzEjM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUgUF5M3FTI

Iamon lyme: Wrong...

http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/5615

"As Jaffe explains, the commonly heard phase “air pollution knows no boundaries” takes on a new meaning when we start to understand how pollution is travelling around the globe. The pollutants pumped out into the air never disappear into thin air, as we might like to believe.

Typical westerly wind flows across the mid-latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere mean air pollution from China is often carried over the Pacific Ocean. If the weather conditions are right, contaminants including mercury, ozone, sulphur and nitrogen oxides, black carbon and desert dust, can reach the west coast of the US within days.

The most visible recent examples were the giant dust storms originating from the Gobi desert in 1998 and 2001, which carried significant levels of pollutants across to the US. At the time, researchers feared this could be the start of an era of Chinese pollution dumping itself on the US. However, a similar large event has not occurred since, although smaller dust storms are still frequent.

Far more common, says Jaffe, have been the ozone events. These are not visible in the same way as giant dust storms, so haven´t garnered the same level of interest, but have proven to be damaging to public health and air quality standards. Levels of ozone detected at the mountaintop research centre have been "creeping up" over the past decade, according to data collected at the site, a result linked to, among factors, rapidly increasing vehicle emissions from Asia."

..........."Ironically, the US could also be contributing to its own mercury pollution too if it pushes through plans to scale up the export of coal to China.

US coal is already being exported to China through Canada. Just south of the west coast port city of Vancouver, the Westshore Coal Terminal ships 22 million tonnes of coal a year, of which 59% goes to China. There are now plans to build dozens of new terminals in the states of Washington and Oregon, on the west coast of the US, and export 150 million tonnes of coal a year to Asia.

"It's a classic jobs versus environment," says Jaffe, who lives in Washington state, which is phasing out its only coal-burning power station. "It's a dumb idea. We ship coal to China, they burn it and we get the pollution back.""

(V): "No they are not, you are just using '''liberals''' as a scapegoat for everything that you think is wrong with the USA."


I wasn't talking about "everything". They are responsible for most of the goofy ideas we Americans are treated to on an almost daily basis. I was also talking about the game liberals play when it comes to oil...

They approach it from an environmental angle. This gives them their excuse for limiting oil production and refining. They push for "energy alternatives" for two reasons. They say it's better for the environment. And it will reduce our dependence on foreign oil... which is a crock, because if they hadn't been working so diligently to limit our production of oil, which includes not allowing the Alaskan pipeline to be finished, then dependence on foreign oil wouldn't be an issue. But if oil production has been rising all this time (according to you and the New York times) then apparently liberals have been lying about our dependence on foreign oil.

Whenever the US goes to war in a country that has oil, they automatically assume the reason for that war is to get control of their oil. This is also a crock, and for the same reason liberals push for energy alternatives. They claim it would reduce our dependence on foreign oil, and then we wouldn't have to invade other countries to get their oil... I think some of them have been smoking weed for so long anything they dream up seems reasonable to them.

Anyway, solar panels and windmills and electric cars aren't enough to replace everything we get from oil. But even if I assume liberals are correct about the US going to war for oil, they can't avoid the obvious... they are the ones who created the conditions that led to those wars. It's fascinating how their reasoning process works... they see themselves as blameless, but even in their fantasies they can't avoid pointing the same finger back at themselves.

The claim that wars are fought over oil is not related to their efforts to limit our oil production, it just happens to be a convenient complaint they are able to tie to our lack of adequate domestic oil... and who can we thank for that?

(V): The Chinese pollution problem is easy enough to fix, we'll just send our presently unoccupied occupy wall street protesters over to disrupt operations in China. And I will personally sent a strongly worded letter of protest. That alone should be enough to get results, but we should still send the protesters. The Chinese and the US manufacturers in China will have no choice but to shut down their manufacturing operations... permanently.

(V): By the time that pollution reaches the west coast most of it is gone... dissipated in the air and washed from the sky into the pacific ocean. The only "pollution" we've had to deal with lately is debris from last years Japanese tsunami.

I saw something in the news about dust from a Chinese dust storm reaching the west coast... which is pretty remarkable, since dust from our own dust bowl disaster (before I was born) only made it as far as a few miles past the atlantic coastline.

Iamon lyme: More to the point. Your air quality.... or is it just yours.... Asian pollution is impacting on your West coast, much of that pollution is from manufacturing plants contracted (as the labour is cheaper and regs less bothersome) to make your stuff for you... so, added onto your own home grown crap is stuff from Asia.

There is a nice island of plastic forming in the Pacific ocean.

(V): "Seriously, that was just an avoidance answer."

Look who's talking. Avoid this... who is in control of air/water standards in China? The US, or China?

Correction...

"No they are not, you are just using '''liberals''' as a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in the USA."

Should read...

"No they are not, you are just using '''liberals''' as a scapegoat for everything that you think is wrong with the USA.

Iamon lyme: It is?? The New York Times says any such increase is temporary and that US domestic production is up 10%

"No it isn't."

Yes it is. You think all those toppled governments by the CIA were just for the good of the people whose country it was?

"Yes they are."

No they are not, you are just using '''liberals''' as a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in the USA.

"Yeah, and the US is also responsible for everything that happens in the UK. Seriously, grow up."

Seriously, that was just an avoidance answer. 0 points for that. I'll give points if you can tell me what new man made island exists? Or what state is reporting pollutants from China via the Jet Stream?

(V): "You didn't at the time."

"at the time" we had enough. Now we have more than enough. As we find more oil, our dependence on foreign oil increases... any thoughts as to why?


"It is true."

No it isn't.

"Are they?"

Yes they are.


"The US has one of the best if not the best records for clean air and water standards of any other nation."

[ Do you? Including or excluding pollution from China based firms manufacturing goods for American companies to sell to the world?? ]

Yeah, and the US is also responsible for everything that happens in the UK. Seriously, grow up.

Iamon lyme: You didn't at the time.

"We don't go to war to gain control over someone elses oil, but just for the sake of argument let's assume this is true."

It is true.

"what is the liberal's explanation for effectively making us dependent on foreign oil? Liberals in this country are responsible for stopping oil companies from drilling."

Are they?

"The US has one of the best if not the best records for clean air and water standards of any other nation."

Do you? Including or excluding pollution from China based firms manufacturing goods for American companies to sell to the world??

"We weren't arguing about religion... we were laughing at liberals."

I was laughing at both conservatives and liberals in the USA on this one... It's just alll stoooopid imo. :)

(V): "I think you guys need to stop arguing about religion so much in the USA."

Who's arguing about religion?

A boy was suspended from school for nibbling a pop tart in the shape of a gun. The size of soft drinks have been limited in New York because the mayor is concerned about how much sugar people get. Football players won't be allowed to drop their heads anymore when rushing down the field, because they might hurt someone... with their heads. Apparently it's better if their heads are vulnerable when rushing down the field. Can't play dodge ball anymore??? I played dodge ball when I was a kid, it was a blast. How can you get hurt by a soft rubber ball? I think schools should ban pencils, and compasses with their sharp metal points... no one can stab you with a soft rubber ball.

The list goes on and on and on. Liberals take all of their silly ideas very seriously, including what we should and shouldn't say. We shouldn't say Merry Christmas, we should say Happy Holidays. AD pointed out that the word holiday (probably the origin of the word) means Holy day, so we shouldn't be surprised if one day liberals decide we must stop saying 'holiday'.

We weren't arguing about religion... we were laughing at liberals.

(V): I don't get this "for the sake of oil" argument. If liberals are so distraught over what they say is US effort to grab oil from other countries, then why do they resist US efforts to access it's own oil?

This is a contradiction for which I have never heard a reasonable explanation. How can anyone justify saying we want someone elses oil when we have more than enough of our own?

We don't want control over 'their' oil, we want control over OUR oil. The most recent estimates show our own sources at least matches (and might exceed) how much middle eastern oil is available.

We don't go to war to gain control over someone elses oil, but just for the sake of argument let's assume this is true... what is the liberal's explanation for effectively making us dependent on foreign oil? Liberals in this country are responsible for stopping oil companies from drilling, and have resisted the building of new refineries, so if anyone is responsible for what they call a 'war for oil' it would be be them.

If they think the US goes to war just to get control over someone elses oil, then I can't think of a better way to solve that problem than by allowing the US to access it's own oil. Liberals may be able to have it both ways (restrict drilling and claim war for oil) but they can't adequately explain any of this away with so called environmental concerns... that's BS. The US has one of the best if not the best records for clean air and water standards of any other nation. So if a clean environment is what they are really concerned about, they should go grip about it to countries who don't care how much pollutant they pile into the air.

To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
From: Tomas Young

I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.

I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to “liberate” Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq’s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.

I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.

I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, Mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a Christian. But isn’t lying a sin? Isn’t murder a sin? Aren’t theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a Christian. But I believe in the Christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.

My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness.

Artful Dodger: I think you guys need to stop arguing about religion so much in the USA.

It's like a long Greek tragedy, where at stake is the answer to the question of the current position of the electrons around a single molecule of water held on the end of a feather balanced on the end of a pin in a vacuum, under a glass dome.

Artful Dodger: Yeah... What would Iran be like if the Imperial forces of the west (in this case the USA and UK) hadn't deposed a democratically elected good guy and placed their puppet the Shah of Persia in his place... for the sake of oil that was not theirs.

But someone had signed a piece of paper that it was, and not the people of Iran.

60 years on and people of Iran are still getting killed over this decision.

Is it because BP is British you say Liberals screw everything.. Iran.. The Gulf of Mexico.

After all... they are defined as being people too, companies that is... to be correct an artificial person. Not a Natural person though... that is reserved for humans only.

__ __
( o) ( 0)


<><<

Artful Dodger: shhhhhhh, don't tell them what it means! Big brother might be watching.

<><<

(V): We have Spring Break, and Easter here as well. Or if your in New York, it's Spring Break and Spring Holiday (they forgot that Holiday mean Holy Day)

rod03801: Liberals in America ruin everything.

(V): So often the powers go overboard without considering the unintended consequences.

Hot Cross Bun anyone?

.... and there you have a contradiction.

The UK is supposed to be more 'liberal' and/or 'socialist'.... Yet everyone says "Happy Easter"... schools.. no problem. Displays... no problem. Churches advertising Easter service or activities thereof to help keep the kids entertained.... no problem.

And it's Easter Holiday and end of the spring term at the same time Art here!! ;P

Artful Dodger: Yup that dodge ball thing is here in New Hampshire. There is currently a petition going around to overturn the new rule.

Our state used to be reasonable until all the libs started moving in.

Artful Dodger: ... A school in the UK banned triangular shaped flapjack after a kid got hit in the eye during a food fight. They say that it's point is more dangerous than the corners on square or rectangular flapjack.

..... what everyone else is saying.. don't be ridiculous, and maybe you should look at how this food fight was allowed to start instead of blaming the injury on triangular flapjack.

A company spokesman declared that it cannot communicate with a regional office in the matter of transferring paperwork.

.... they were reminded that there is a postal service in the UK, soon after the paperwork appeared.

.... Honey, has a best before date.

(V): I try! In New York (at some school) you can't say "Easter" as in Easter Bunny or Easter break or Easter eggs. It's Spring Break (I'm ok with that) and Spring Bunny (WTH????) And Spring Eggs????

Stupid school administrators.

In another school, dodge ball has been banned because 5 parents complained. I say put the parents in the middle of the dodge ball circle and pummel the (beep) out of them with the dodge balls. Head shots permitted (since they aren't using them anyway).

Here's a solution for those that don't like the game dodge ball: don't play.l

Iamon lyme: Well..... I don't see you doing anything than making straw man arguments.

(V): "Meaningless."

LOL

Iamon lyme: Meaningless.

(V): Why stop with Reagan and Bush? Lincoln trampled over the rights of law abiding slave owners, and Washington defied the king when he fought against British troops. It all started in 1,000,000 BC when Ogg took Ugh as his mate from a neighboring clan, thinking it would end strife between the two clans. But the plan backfired, and it only worked to create more resentment and greater animosity between the two clans. So Ogg took Pew as another mate from a smaller third clan, to shore up his strength if the two major clans ever came to blows. This too was a mistake, because the third lesser clan decided to align itself with Oggs enemy.

Ogg traveled many days to reach the largest clan in recorded prehistoric history, and took Ick as a mate after striking a deal with that clans leader... Icks father. But Ogg never received any support from him after Ogg came home with Ick... he called and left messages, but Icks father never got back to him. Before it was all over the political landscape was a mess, and Ogg had seven mates fighting among themselves for his attention...
Oh well, pooka happens.

Iamon lyme: meaningless.

(V): Yes.

Obama takes first prize. Carter and Clinton combined did less damage than Obama can take credit for, and he's not done yet.

Artful Dodger: No. But you can stand upto it.

Iamon lyme: No.

"I always know when I've scored points when you decide to take a walk down memory lane."

I know (if it's all about point scoring as you state) that such an answer means you have no answer. You can't justify Bush crushing Americans First Amendment rights.

Ok... I can understand that. He was a Conservative, and Conservatives don't do that.

Right??

Artful Dodger: []_ [[]] []_

Sounds like something I would make up, just to be funny... what is even funnier is that it could all be true! I can't tell the difference anymore. Whenever I think something is just made up nonsense it often turns out to be true... LOL

(V): "How many presidents do you think we have?"

[ One at a time. ]

So which one do you think I was talking about?


[ Bush was quite willing to have demonstrators against the Iraq invasion 'escorted' to zones away from the eye of the 'press''. Isn't that a breach of your rights in the USA? When Raygun and other US governments supported terrorists isn't that a breach of American Law? ]

Irrelevant. I'm talking about the current president. I always know when I've scored points when you decide to take a walk down memory lane.

[ Them being responsible rather than need 'government' to tell them. I thought you were for that!! ]

Sure, but no one needs to make self serving and essentially meaningless proclamations in order to do that. In a perfect world, everyone would behave responsibly whether there were acts and statutes or not.

[ People having bought off the 'councils', I mentioned it earlier. That building projects now tend to be more 'general' not 'projects'. ]

You mean corruption still exists? Oh well... so much for the power of wishing a perfect world into existence, eh?

Happy Easter or as they say in New York, Happy Spring!

I met an owl once and told her she was the prettiest animal on the planet.

She didn't give a hoot.

Iamon lyme: Three of the occupy Wall Street group got jobs (at McDonalds) and that cut their numbers significantly so they disbanded. One became a CEO of his own company! He opened a koolaid stand in front of him mom's house. The city shut it down though claiming a zoning violation. So now he's back to sleeping all day and getting drunk all night. One of the Occupy girls decided to go into prostitution but she refused to have sex with strangers so that didn't work out either. All in all I'd say the movement was successful in that it demonstrated to the world what a person can do if they leave their mind out of it. Also, as a social experiment, the Occupy movements have gone a long way to proving the adage: You can't fix stupid.

Iamon lyme: People having bought off the 'councils', I mentioned it earlier. That building projects now tend to be more 'general' not 'projects'.

"How many presidents do you think we have?"

One at a time. Bush was quite willing to have demonstrators against the Iraq invasion 'escorted' to zones away from the eye of the 'press''.

Isn't that a breach of your rights in the USA? When Raygun and other US governments supported terrorists isn't that a breach of American Law?

"Errant banks and phone hacking scandals and rich people with offshore accounts."

And a big company called UK.plc

"And if those people decided they too will no longer stand under any acts or statutes... do you see where I'm going with this?"

Them being responsible rather than need 'government' to tell them. I thought you were for that!!

What happened to the occupy wall street crowd?

Good news, the fraudulent prediction charges were subsequently dropped.

(V): [ Including the mix that happens? As 'estates' as such are disappearing. ]

The mix? Disappearing 'estates'? Well, I can't argue with that...

What the #@&% are you talking about?


"Over here we have a president, fully supported by his party, who has been ignoring our constitutional rights from the day he stepped into office."

[ And you think the Republicans don't? ]

How many presidents do you think we have?


"You have much more important issues to fight and moan over."

[ ??? ]

Errant banks and phone hacking scandals and rich people with offshore accounts.


"It appears he has given himself permission to ignore any of those acts or statutes if he so chooses."

[ You don't get it. If people were not ignoring common law, none of these statutes would be needed...]

And if those people decided they too will no longer stand under any acts or statutes... do you see where I'm going with this? If those acts and statutes were not needed, there wouldn't be any acts or statutes. And if one person says he only recognizes common law and does not stand under any acts or statutes, what's to stop everyone else from making the same claim? He is fantasizing about a perfect world where everyone respects "common law", making any other rule or act or statute or law unnecessary. Either that or he's doing it for his allotted 15 minutes of fame.

Iamon lyme: Including the mix that happens? As 'estates' as such are disappearing.

"We have guys like that over here too. But they tend to keep to themselves and collect weapons"

Not the same.

"I see, so he wanted to remind the government of those rights in case they forgot or were tempted to ignore them."

No.

"Over here we have a president, fully supported by his party, who has been ignoring our constitutional rights from the day he stepped into office."

And you think the Republicans don't?

"You have much more important issues to fight and moan over."

???

"It appears he has given himself permission to ignore any of those acts or statutes if he so chooses."

You don't get it. If people were not ignoring common law, none of these statutes would be needed... or as a buffer to stop so many companies and 'persons' ending up in court on criminal charges.... for things like 'food safety'.

Artful Dodger: "Why is it government never learns? They keep making the same mistakes over and over."

It's not easy to come up with a short answer to that. When government is made up of too many individuals who only work for personal political gain, then anything can happen. A lot of time and effort goes into securing votes and gaining control... so there's not a lot of time left over for actually doing their jobs.

There are short term political strategies, like pressuring banks into making risky home loans to curry favor (i.e., votes) among poorer working class people. We all know how well that worked out.

And then there are long term strategies, like rejecting tort reform so that problems with the health care industry would lead to a government take over... we will know before too long how well that works out.

Iamon lyme:

The gorgeous mens farting board welcomes your comments and opinions.

Iamon lyme: A few corrections:

If our media misrepresents anything, it usually falls on the side of favoring governmental actions and covering UP as best it can government misdeeds.


"By that law we are all equal, no one has rights above the other. He was free but made sure the government knew he knew he was free."

I see, so he wanted to remind the government he was free... just in case they forgot or were tempted to ignore that little detail. (?)



One other point I failed to mention... you said: "One guy just sent a 15 page statement to the PM stating he does not stand under any acts or statutes... "

It appears he has given himself permission to ignore any of those acts or statutes if he so chooses.