Übergeek 바둑이: No. It's because of how low they went. Hacking politicians and celebs.. they live and die in the press to a certain degree.

But hacking phones of Dead soldiers families, 7/7 and those of girls who whose murders were under investigation is a step to far.

"Isn't eavesdropping on people what police and intelligence agencies have been doing for the last 200 years?"

Yes. Unfortunately we have people that are actively engaged in anti-social activities such as murder and war.

"The reality is that the media, the police, intelligence agencies and politicians play a game that is well integrated...."

I'm not so sure on that. They have been fouling up alot and getting noticed.

Justaminute: If he does. That now is not a done deal. It is yet to be seen how deep and how far the responsibility will have to go. .... ie how many heads will roll. Rebekah Brooks has offered to commit 'seppuku' (resign) but that has been refused at the moment. It is said she will be sacrificed if James Murdoch comes up as having his hands dirty in this affair.

The News International Boss (owns Fox News)

Staff at the News of the World have reacted with shock to news that it will be closed after this Sunday's edition.

The 168-year-old tabloid is accused of hacking into phones of crime victims, celebrities and politicians. Police have identified 4,000 possible targets. The Guardian reports that Andy Coulson, formerly David Cameron's director of communications and a former NoW editor, will be arrested later.

It says Mr Coulson will be arrested on suspicion that he knew about, or had direct involvement in, the hacking of mobile phones during his time as editor, between 2003 and 2007. He has insisted he knew nothing about the practice.

Staff said they were stunned after News International chairman James Murdoch announced on Thursday the NoW would shut, after days of increasingly damaging allegations. The paper's editor Colin Myler said the news was "the saddest day of my professional career". Mr Wooding, who joined the NoW 18 months ago, said the paper was "fantastic" and "decent, hard-working, distinguished journalists were all carrying the can for the sins of a previous regime".

But Labour MP Chris Bryant, who believes his phone was hacked, said the decision to close was "a really cynical move". He told the BBC: "What the Murdochs have been doing in the last few weeks is chucking people over the side in a desperate attempt to keep the ship afloat.

"But it's really unfair that [it is] the staff at the newspaper who are losing their jobs rather than the people at the top...if Rebekah Brooks had a single shred of decency in her, if only because Milly Dowler's phone was hacked on her watch, she should resign."

In a statement made to staff, Mr Murdoch said the good things the paper did "have been sullied by behaviour that was wrong - indeed, if recent allegations are true, it was inhuman and has no place in our company". "The News of the World is in the business of holding others to account. But it failed when it came to itself."

The suspicion is that dumping the paper is an attempt to save Rupert MurDoch's buying of BskyB. That the Sun (sister paper) is to start a Sunday edition......!!

The police have been covering up their supplying of NoW with information for cash, and indeed trying to cover the depth of the amount they knew about the phone hacking.

Politicians it seems have been bullied by Rupert Murdoch, by threatening to 'diss' such politicians. eg...
.............."you scratch my back and I won't use my papers to print bad stories about you before the election."

... Advertisers are already cancelling contracts with the Rupert Murdoch owned paper, just like with Glenn Beck.

David Cameron has promised to set up a public inquiry into phone hacking at the News of the World.

The UK prime minister said claims that the voicemail of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler had been hacked, with some messages deleted, were "disgusting".

But he told MPs an inquiry could not take place until police investigations were concluded.....

Rupert Murdoch, chairman and chief executive of News Corporation, the parent company of the News of the World, said allegations that staff had hacked phones and paid police were "deplorable and unacceptable".

He added that he was "committed to addressing these issues fully".

It is claimed that 13-year-old Milly Dowler's voicemail was hacked by an investigator working for the News of the World after she disappeared near her home in Surrey in 2002 .

This follows allegations that dozens of politicians and celebrities, including actor Hugh Grant and former Deputy Prime Minister Lord Prescott, were also targeted.

***************************

"said allegations that staff had hacked phones and paid police were "deplorable and unacceptable".

But they have already paid out to various celebs, etc. People working for the NOTW paper found guilty and jailed. But as much, the attitude of the public over celebs and politicians phones being hacked wasn't big.


............... But to hack the phone of a missing child and then delete messages listened to in order to hide the hacking, leading to the parents of the child to believe she was still alive and thus hinder a countrywide search for the girl is....

...."disgusting".

Artful Dodger: There was by all accounts an agreement with Stalin by FDR (and Churchill) over how much territory the Soviet Union would be able to keep at the end of WWII.

See the Yalta Conference.

Then there is .... Bhopal: the Union Carbide gas leak.

http://www.lenntech.com/environmental-disasters.htm

The cause of the accident has been researched after the disaster. Apparently water ended up in MIC storage tanks, causing an exothermal reaction that released an amount of poisonous gas large enough to open the safety valves. Normally scrubbers would intercept escaping gas, but these were temporarily out of order for repair.
Research showed that factory personnel neglected a number of safety procedures. There were no valves to prevent water from entering the storage tanks. The cooling installation of the tanks and the flaring installation that might have flared the gas that was released were out of order (fig. 1).
Safety was very low in this factory of Union Carbide, compared to its other locations. The safety procedures were neglected because of budget cuts......

...In 2001 Dow Chemical Company took control of Union Carbide. These take-overs led to a discussion on responsibility for cleaning up the tons of poisonous waste that are still present in the environment consequential to the 1984 disaster. Environmental activists are trying to convince Dow Chemical Company to clean up this potential minefield of toxic chemicals. These could cause nervous system failure, liver and kidney disease and possibly cancer for many years to come.
Today, the location is still polluted with thousands of tons of toxic chemicals, such as hexachlorobenzene and mercury. These chemicals are stored in open barrels. Rainfall causes rinsing out of pollution to local drinking water sources. According to BBC research, some wells even contain up to 500 times the legal limit of these toxins. Local residents still suffer from a number of diseases, which appear to be very uncommon among people that do not live in the disaster area.

*******************

Nice.

Tuesday: .... you can tell by his posts he doesn't

Artful Dodger: Dan... I wasn't referring to oil companies as such, but of the many companies that have and still (such as BP) knowingly crap on others just to notch up a few more points on the stock market.

Like the companies today who are exporting illegally e-waste to India, despite signing 'promises' that they would dispose of it at home. Like the Health companies in America refusing to pay up for medical care... and their use of people paid on commission to deny procedures that can cure a person or stop them dying.

You could read this....
http://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2

You might also wanna check out Dow Chemicals and the Monsanto Corporation. But... that is mixed up with the Federal government and the use of Agent Orange. What in hindsight was chemical warfare... .... ...

Artful Dodger: Even if they knowingly cause the death, mutilation, mutation and pollution of an area or people.. including innocent women and children.

You know they do you know.

I'd thought being "legitimate and legal" would make that more disgusting.

Artful Dodger: Please... to those in Europe that was 1914-1918 rather than 1917-1918. Other factors such as the development of the tank had just as much importance. Imho if you Americans hadn't entered in, the allies would have won but just later.

As for WWII.. If the UK had fallen, would America been able to fight. The tech you and the Russians nicked would still have been in German hands as possibly the UK's nuclear boffins.

You saved yourselves.

rod03801: We didn't lose them.

We formed a Commonwealth that has 54 member states. Isn't that more states than the USA?

Iamon lyme: Nahhhhhhh. It was only one of many a country we ruled.

Up the British... Down with the Colonials.

We'd won if it were not for the French!!

Artful Dodger: It's thought they might support..

"Gerges said the election "utterly discredited" claims that the Brotherhood has moved away from being an al-Qaida style political and religious organisation. He is wrong. The election proves that it is not an organisation of the "al-Qaida variety". How many organisations in the Middle East hold internal elections? Al-Qaida doesn't.

Certainly, commentators are worried that with Badie in charge the youth success and reform push of recent times will be put on hold.

Abdelrahman Ayyash, one of the leading MB bloggers, told me he fears a return to the politics of Sayyid Qutb. Badie has been linked to this radical ideology.

But grassroots reformist can still make an impact if they try hard enough. In October, a group of Brotherhood bloggers issued a statement that argued point by point the pitfalls they saw within the movement. Unsurprisingly, conservatives were upset.

Meanwhile, Badie faces a number of challenges. He is positioned between the reformists – who call for an opening of the structure of the Brotherhood to allow more debate and participation within the group – and the conservatives – who want to maintain their stranglehold on the politics of yesterday.

Khalil al-Anani, a political Islam expert who understands the Muslim Brotherhood better than most, said he believes the main challenges for Badie "will be how to balance between reformists and conservatives and how to engage [the] young Brotherhood".

This is the crux of the matter. The youth movement within the Brotherhood is growing and becoming the main face of the group abroad, but it doesn't have any real power in decision-making.

This is the last stand for the conservatives – members who espouse an ideology that lies in the politics of the 1960s and 1970s – and it is only a matter of time before the younger generation has a greater say.

Reformists, such as the popular Guidance Bureau member, Abdel Moneim Aboul Fotouh – who talks of tolerance, understanding and democracy and is widely looked up to by the youth, should not sulk after the conservatives' victory but try to demonstrate the past few years were not an abnormality."

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=23222&ref=search.php

Why is it the Conservatives that always want war and death??

Iamon lyme: Not as much CO2 as they absorb.. they use it to grow and lock it into their chemistry. If they didn't .... we would not be here, as plants are the reason for the decrease in CO2 levels/increase O2 that allowed animals to live on land.

Iamon lyme: Yes.. but ice that is locked in glaciers and the like is land based and not in the sea.. unless it breaks off or melts and then adds to the sea. Certain low island already are disappearing.

"More rays are deflected with a heavier veil, therefore over time less and less heat is produced."

Interesting, but I thought that our atmosphere extended way beyond the usual water vapour range. Or it maybe I'm just remembering the problem we had with CFC's and ozone... I thought water vapour is usually invisible.. it's in the air we breath yet we do not 'see' it. If it was sulphur.. different matter, that reflects.

"but that the extremes really aren't so extreme"... it's the % of more extreme weather that is the problem. eg our UK crops are having problems due to an extremely rare dry and hot April. Food production from this season (wheat and other cereals) will be lower.

Artful Dodger: Are you speaking of Obama, or.........???

rod03801: It's a reasonable request if you make 'claims'. I like to see if you know your stuff or are just quoting political hogwash.

"This is NOT the floor of congress, and I don't even know you."

Amnesia?

As to your article, it goes some way but is to general. Your rich? (I say it as this due to differences in exchange rates and what we consider rich in the UK) already pay less than they ever have. That your top percentage earners pay less isn't stopping loopholes and haven use. The deregulation that has caused the mess with the banks only has shown to make them rich quicker.

And all because big business can buy politicians.. especially Raygun and the Bush's.

Iamon lyme: you mean

"But here's one even easier to debunk. more vegetation produces more CO2."

It's called photosynthesis. Sunlight+CO2 = plant growth+O2

It's why the boffins have all looked at using plant matter as a means of long term O2 production on long space flights.

rod03801: Do they? As every real look at tax income and who it comes from that I see of the USA. Says NO THEY DON'T.

So. I'd like to see proof (official notes/docs/site)

As it seems now as a percentage of actual taxes collected re what percentage they pay in relation to income.... THEY DON'T.

loopholes, havens.

"We aren't the UK. We fought not to be over 200 years ago. "

And at the moment do you think with all the lobbyists greasing government (local/state/federal) you actually have real representation?

Iamon lyme: Human waste makes good gas. It's a nice recycling of all those nasty McD's

Francis Fukuyama summarized these concepts: "Prior to the 1980s, conservatives were fiscally conservative— that is, they were unwilling to spend more than they collected in taxes. But Reaganomics introduced the idea that virtually any tax cut would so stimulate growth that the government would end up taking in more revenue in the end (the so-called Laffer curve). In fact, the traditional view was correct: if you cut taxes without cutting spending, you end up with a damaging deficit. Thus the Reagan tax cuts of the 1980s produced a big deficit; the Clinton tax increases of the 1990s produced a surplus; and the Bush tax cuts of the early 21st century produced an even larger deficit."[19]

Economist Bruce Bartlett wrote in 2009 that without benefit cuts in Medicare and Social Security, federal taxes would have to increase by 8.1% of GDP now and forever to cover estimated program shortfalls, while avoiding debt increases.[20] The 30-year historical average federal tax receipts are 18.4% of GDP, so this would represent a substantial increase in tax receipts as a share of GDP relative to historical levels in the United States. However, such an increase would still leave tax revenues relative to GDP substantially lower than other developed nations like France and Germany (see: List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP).


............. In comparing corporate taxes, the Congressional Budget Office found in 2005 that the top statutory tax rate was the third highest among OECD countries behind Japan and Germany. However, the U.S. ranked 27th lowest of 30 OECD countries in its collection of corporate taxes relative to GDP, at 1.8% vs. the average 2.5%.[27] Bruce Bartlett wrote in May 2011: "...one almost never hears that total revenues are at their lowest level in two or three generations as a share of G.D.P. or that corporate tax revenues as a share of G.D.P. are the lowest among all major countries. One hears only that the statutory corporate tax rate in the United States is high compared with other countries, which is true but not necessarily relevant. The economic importance of statutory tax rates is blown far out of proportion by Republicans looking for ways to make taxes look high when they are quite low.


In other words the Republicans get paid by lobbyists to make stocks look good at the expense of the USA....

It must be KFC gravy!!

rod03801: as you said upto Reagan. Raygun gave America more debt than the previous 200 years of American government.

"FORCED cuts in spending are VITAL."

Ok.. so why is the Republicans against raising taxes a little? Here in the UK VAT has been increased so everyone pays. The more you spend, the more you pay.

What's a percent or two to someone with $10 million+ in their account? One less bottle of champers??

It started before Bush with Raygun... The tax breaks he gave the rich the American economy has never benefited from and ham stringed the economy. The amount of money Raygun spent to make things look better, was more than any President ever. The rich get Richer and the average or poor Joe gets to foot the bill.

The Capitalist American Dream. Robin hood reversed!!

Artful Dodger: By your standards. Raygun did worse... by most standards, he is the worst..... ever.

Texas have done big look at geothermal.. Including reusing old oil and gas wells. Seeing as the State has already a great deal of info recorded on what is beneath them.....

It's looking good!!

Artful Dodger: Why? They seem to be happy to tap into geothermal and use solar.

"The production and transportation of steel are both expensive and energy-intensive."

.... and how much is used in a refinery or coal burning plant... let's not forget the concrete!!

"Obviously these are ballpark figures"

ie.... made up figures??

A SOUTH Tyneside scientist has helped proved the region once basked like the Bahamas.

Professor Paul Younger, from Hebburn, is part of a team which has spent the past four months looking for a geothermal energy source.

And yesterday researchers struck hot water.

Their discovery aptly came on one of the hottest days of the year so far, with temperatures on South Tyneside soaring – although the heavens opened later in the afternoon. During the early hours, the giant drill hit a hot-water source 2,000m below the earth’s surface at the Science City site.

The £900,000 project, which began four months ago, marks the first deep excavation in the UK since the 1980s and the scientists now plan to pump the water back up to the surface so that it can heat local buildings.

Prof Younger, from Newcastle University, said: “This hot water could be available 24/7 because it doesn’t depend on the weather. It is as cheap and as low-carbon as it comes.”

The drill also went through a coal seam at a depth of 660m that nobody knew existed and uncovered fossils thousands of years old. Newcastle University geology student Laura Armstrong has been examining fossils that were discovered in a block of limestone more than 1,000m below the ground. “It is one of the most exciting things we’ve found,” she said. “These shells and corals suggest that Newcastle was once a tropical environment, like offshore Bahamas.”

The next step is for scientists to run tests on the sandstone, which acts as an insulator for the hot water.

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/scientists_happy_to_be_in_hot_water_1_3521295

They plan to drill another hole, the two would provide enough power for the Uni and 11,000 homes.

Green might not at current tech meet all our needs. But with more investment we get cheap renewable energy. Planning permission seems to be the problem... causing delays to which certain energy farms although approved are yet to be complete.


I must say in the USA.. wouldn't small towns in the sunnier regions prefer to be virtually self reliant, and perhaps even sell energy off to the grid??

Yes we laugh at such paranoia.

Iamon lyme: Are you sure.... I understand that water vapour (actual percentage between 36% and 85%) lasts just for a few days, while CO2 can go for centuries.

Maybe people need to check more the validity of those they read saying nay to our impact on this world. So many big businesses are just interested in the next few years of profit and not the long term effect on our planet and our descendants.

Oh well. money is more important than the planet, it's just one planet in billions.

Blimey.... people that think our Planet can't be upset by our existence. Maybe they should remember Castle Bravo and the Bikini islands.

Oh.. The islands have been deemed uninhabitable due to radiation poisoning. Maybe the radiation dosage was a little high.

I mean... a few extra billion tons of CO2 or other chemicals (agent Orange for one) have no effect on us at all...... N' if you believe that then you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny.

Tuesday: Aye.. I thought it very much a hollywooooood excursion. I've also watched "The Life of Brian", "Dogma", "The Last Temptation of Jesus Christ", and many other serious and non serious spoofs on Christ and Christianity in film, on TV and in books. I suppose in the UK we tend to laugh more at ourselves and our relationship with religion then you guys in the USA.

Tuesday: No, members of the Jewish priestly hierarchy had Pontius Pilate kill Jesus. The story is they rigged the crowd to make Pilate crucify Christ. As to the crucifixion...... If there was no 'death', there is no 'rising'. I thought Christ knew what was going to happen and let it happen.

Tuesday: I don't think that is a fair assessment. Jesus did not fulfil all of the prophecies that were said to be completed as the Jewish Messiah. I believe that someone else did that (or as near as ) if I remember my history on that matter correctly.

Also, if it wasn't for the Romans the establishment of Christianity would be different. It became a state church, just like when Henry VIII formed the Church of England.. but that was so he could divorce his wife.

Artful Dodger: Per person??

Arthur Brooks made quite a splash a few years ago in his book Who Really Cares. He argued that religious conservatives were far more likely to give than liberals. In fact, if you campare religious conservatives with secular liberals, he is right. Indeed, one third of secularists give nothing to charity. Of the most religious in the country 94% give to charity. And of those who give, the religious give on average at least three times more than those who are not religious. Moreover, the figures bear out that religious conservatives are far more likely to give to non-religious causes than are the non-religious.

Brooks turns out to be far off base, however, in contending that religious conservatives give more often and give more than religious liberals. Basically, he failed to adjust for church attendance. If you adjust for church attendance there is no difference that favors conservatives over liberals. Indeed, religious liberals volunteer more often to help the sick, the needy, and neighborhood and civic groups. For an excellent discussion of this, see chapter 13 of American Grace by Putnam and Campbell.

Tuesday: I heard it was about making God available for the Gentiles without the need to live by 613 commandments as well as things like eye for an eye.

lizrising: Aye.. The words that to me make that 'connection', I don't use except in prayer.

Tuesday: The old ways.. Define old ways?

Tuesday: Christ would have known Judaism... And that would have reflected in his words.

Tuesday: The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Hei-Vav-Hei (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Hei-Yod-Hei (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Hei), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Hei-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord").

The first Name used for God in scripture is Elohim. In form, the word is a masculine plural of a word that looks feminine in the singular (Eloha). The same word (or, according to Rambam, a homonym of it) is used to refer to princes, judges, other gods, and other powerful beings. This Name is used in scripture when emphasizing God's might, His creative power, and his attributes of justice and rulership. Variations on this name include El, Eloha, Elohai (my God) and Elohaynu (our God).

God is also known as El Shaddai. This Name is usually translated as "God Almighty," however, the derivation of the word "Shaddai" is not known. According to some views, it is derived from the root meaning "to heap benefits." According a Midrash, it means, "The One who said 'dai'" ("dai" meaning enough or sufficient) and comes from the fact that when God created the universe, it expanded until He said "DAI!" (perhaps the first recorded theory of an expanding universe?). The name Shaddai is the one written on the mezuzah scroll. Some note that Shaddai is an acronym of Shomer Daltot Yisrael, Guardian of the Doors of Israel.

Another significant Name of God is YHVH Tzva'ot. This Name is normally translated as "Lord of Hosts." The word "tzva'ot" means "hosts" in the sense of a military grouping or an organized array. The Name refers to God's leadership and sovereignty. Interestingly, this Name is rarely used in scripture. It never appears in the Torah (i.e., the first five books). It appears primarily in the prophetic books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi, as well as many times in the Psalms.
Writing the Name of God

Jews do not casually write any Name of God. This practice does not come from the commandment not to take the Lord's Name in vain, as many suppose. In Jewish thought, that commandment refers solely to oath-taking, and is a prohibition against swearing by God's Name falsely or frivolously (the word normally translated as "in vain" literally means "for falsehood"). .................

With the Temple destroyed and the prohibition on pronouncing The Name outside of the Temple, pronunciation of the Name fell into disuse. Scholars passed down knowledge of the correct pronunciation of YHVH for many generations, but eventually the correct pronunciation was lost, and we no longer know it with any certainty. We do not know what vowels were used, or even whether the Vav in the Name was a vowel or a consonant. See Hebrew Alphabet for more information about the difficulties in pronouncing Hebrew. Some religious scholars suggest that the Name was pronounced "Yahweh," but others do not find this pronunciation particularly persuasive.

Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH, and the name stuck.

http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm

It's just a best guess name.

Artful Dodger: Christians went out and did the killing. Why didn't they say "No Jesus/God says it's wrong"?

Tuesday: Considering that the Lord appeared many a time in the OT.... what was his/her name back then?

Seeing as the OT translation of "Lord" is more a case of the "I am" derived From "I am what I am" (he who is).

Artful Dodger: Wrong. Any honest Christian knows that other Christians do use the OT as a means to justify their beliefs. Eg .... Genesis. The Ten Commandments, commentaries on sexuality ... and as such the writings proclaiming the coming of a Messiah. It is also the same God that as written told the Jews to kill, maim and slaughter who is our God.

"However, the Koran is full of such teachings of hate and killing. As are the other authoritative writings in Islam. And Muhammad's life, as an example, clearly shows a history of violence, war, and aggression."

It's the history of the formation and wars that came about from other tribes... Just like in the OT re the Israelites.

FYI the guys killing the early Muslims had no rules.

Bernice:


"I do all my bargaining face to face."

I do both. Online and face to face. But that the same item can vary (eg pool) by about £35 shows the reliance some shops on people being lazy with money. And that is not generally part of the British psyche. I've noticed that there are seasons to the prices on some items, which suggests that at 'peak' season time... we are being ripped off. Especially after the bank situation...

I object to that.

Artful Dodger: A percentage to give depth to "some" would be better.

As to Islam being evil. If that is based on acts, then what is good? We sided with them against the Russians and called them 'freedom fighters'. Then they were the 'good guys'.

Artful Dodger: Really.

"The main reason for Wilders's acquittal lies in his choice of words and oratory skills rather than his motives. The court held that Wilders's statements (including the movie Fitna) were about Islam (a religion, or, as Wilders has it, an ideology) and not Muslims (as individuals or as a group) and, hence, these remarks are not discriminatory or insulting. Nor did they incite hatred. It is about facts – what has been said. Motives are less relevant to the question of guilt. A strict interpretation of selected facts seems to justify the verdict. So it is OK to rant and rave against Islam, even though the subtext suggests that the ranting and raving is geared towards Muslims. As subtexts have no place in law it is back to politics again: there, subtext and intention is all that matters. But how best to resist Wilders and the populist mob?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/23/geert-wilders-acquitted-incitement-hatred

Now... He got off for saying Muslims are ok as individuals, and Islam is eViL as an ideology.

So.. you are agreeing that Muslims are ok?

Artful Dodger: I'm sure you can find more details on him on the web... rather than the neo con website you read.

But hey... in the end how you perceive him is a matter of choice. To the average UK resident.. he's just another Nick Griffin.

Tuesday: Price differences can vary so much. The rip-offs that some shops try and get away with is shocking!!