FRC 960 is introduced. It will make brainking.com more popular. I will feel homeless in that game, but I am sure it is fantastic for some uf us.

... reminds me to Janus where I am not good at all. Janus players appear mostly strong to me even if their rating is low. I don´t like the strong bishop arrow effects too much.

Stormerne: You left out a word in your quote of mine. "Well"
I said it's a lot harder to play this game well compared to regular Chess. I didn't mean to imply that it is any harder to learn how to play it. That's two different things. As an example, tic tac toe is only slightly easier to learn than 5 in line, but which game is harder to get good at?
I also know of games that are hard to learn, but are relatively easy to get good at. Cribbage comes to mind.

Walter Montego: Whoops, sorry Walter. I didn't mean to misquote you.

Yes, easy to learn and easy to do are indeed different things - I know since that's been part of my job for years!

Is Gothic Chess harder to learn to play well than regular chess? Probably yes. But, IMHO, only at the moment. But I don't think that's anything inherent in the game itself. The reason regular chess is so easy to learn to play well is that we're standing on the shoulders of giants, giants that have been publicised widely. I believe that once literature on Gothic Chess has been widely published and has been written about in many ways - by master strategists, wily tacticians, friendly starting-off tutors and the like - it will be as easy to learn as regular chess.

The first one who will post at
BrainKing.com discussion board and only there, the correct answers to the above 3 questions, will win a 6 Month Rook membership............

The 3 questions are here.


***If there are no answers or any correct one until the same day next week, there will be no winner.......
***In the extremely rare case when there will be 2 or more correct answers at the exactly same time, the winner will be the one whose post will appear first at the BrainKing.com discussion board.

I received an anonymous email from a moderator (probably "Stevie") claiming that Fencer will remove Gothic Chess from this site and I will be banned. Just thought you all should know.

EdTrice: Really? Now, then brainking will not be very attractive for me ...

But I do not believe it ...

Guess what arse? fencer agrees with me, have a
butchers!

Fencer (hide) 23. January 2005, 09:42:26 I don't
see anybody being unfairly moderated. Reply


Even better, now he is deleting your arse from BK and
your bloody game as well!! Mess with the mod and you
die!







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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:34:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: Hamlet Mill <hamlet_mill@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Outta here loser!
To: GothicChessInfo@aol.com
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We should write to Fencer to clarify this.........
If it's true then is one of the most dummy decisions he could make!!!! But even if it's true i think we can change his opinion.....

I strongly agree with you George. If one of the Mods is speaking out of place then perhaps he/she should be barred from BK. Fencer should have to answer to this.

What reason is there to believe the message was from a "mod"?

because it was "anonymous", rendering the identity absolutely correct to anyone who speculates about it.

I want you all to know that the matter of the insulting e-mail received by Ed Trice is under investigation. There is a player in the website with a user name similar to that of the sender of the e-mail. It is possible that these two individuals are one and the same. To my knowledge the individual in question is not a moderator. At this point it has been determined elsewhere that the sender of the e-mail was not Stevie. I wanted to clarify this, simply because it would be unfair to blame Stevie for something he did not do.

It's a peculiar mail. The use of "arse", "butchers" and "bloody" rather overdoes the Britishness, particularly as the expression "guess what arse" is quite un-British, as is the use of "loser" in the subject. One definitely senses some kind of put-up job.

gentlemen! the whole case and the discussion about it - please keep it in fellowships or in private messages, but not here in open boards! what would interested new players think???

The problem is that a user was openly blamed for it, and he did not do it. I merely seek to clarify that. In the moment Ed Trice mentioned somebody by name, as a moderator I have no choice but to make it clear that Stevie did not do it.

well said. schachmdmt, it was not Cerebro that started the public rumor, he was just attempting to squelch it and put it to rest.

redsales: of course the public rumour was not started by cerebro ... sorry if there is any misunderstandign!

Well since last time nobody succedded, i will increase the prize..... So here is your chance to win a one year membership here, with a lot of effort of course........

The first one who will post here at
Gothic Chess discussion board and only here, the correct answers to the above 4 questions, will win a 1 year Rook membership...........

The 4 questions are here.


***If there are no answers or any correct one until 10/02/2005, there will be no winner.......
***If someone posts more than 1 answer, then the accepted one, will be ONLY his last one. That means even if someone posts a correct answer before everyone, but posts another one later, not correct this time, he would not win as the accepted answer will be the last one. Even if anyone else hasn't answered correctly.......
***In the extremely rare case when there will be 2 or more correct answers at the exactly same time, the winner will be the one whose post will appear first at the Gothic Chess discussion board.
***I will post if there is a winner or not at 10/02/2005.

Chessmaster1000:

Q1:
part1:
1.e3 j5 2. Cd3 Rj6 3. Qf3 Rg6 4. Cf4 h6 5. Cxg6#

part2:
1. f3 a5 2. Cd3 Ra6 3. Cf4 Rg6 4. Ad4 h6 5. Ab3 f6 6. Cxg6#

Well, if you really want to win the 1 year, then you have to post both 4 questions at the same post. That means a post with question-1 and another post later with question-2 is pointless, as even if both q-1 and q-2 are correct they are not part of the same post.......

By the way, does anyone remember the Gothic Chess page of Schachmdmt? I don't remember the ending.... I try gothicchess.aus/ast but nothing works

Oh, forget it. I just looked at his profile.......the solution was one click away, but i have spent a century looking at Google......

Try http://www.gothicchess.at

Chessmaster1000:

Well, then I use this way, I don't think I can solve Q3, but I work on Q2.
Thanks for Q4, it was very exciting.

------------------------------------

Q1:
part1:
1.e3 j5 2. Cd3 Rj6 3. Qf3 Rg6 4. Cf4 h6 5. Cxg6#

part2:
1. f3 a5 2. Cd3 Ra6 3. Cf4 Rg6 4. Ad4 h6 5. Ab3 f6 6. Cxg6#
------------------------------------------
----
Q4:
1.Bc7 Qxc8 (1..,Nxc7 2.gxf7+ Kf8 3.Qxc7) 2.gxf7+ Kh8 (2..,Kf8 3.Bd6#) 3.Be5 (4.Ke7#) Qc5 [3..,h6(h5) 4.Kg6#; 3..,Qf8 4.Ke6+ Qg7 5.f8Q#; 3..,Qc6+ 4.Ke7+;3..Qb8 4.Bxb8; 3..Qd8+ 4.Ke6+ ; 3..Qa6 4.Ke7+; 3..,Qf5+ 4.Kxf5#]
4.Bb2 Nc7 5.Ba1 a4 6.Bb2 a3 7.Ba1 a2 8.Bb2 a1Q 9.Bxa1 Qa3 10.Kf5+ Qxa1 11.f8Q#

(9..,Qa5 10.f8Q#; 9..,h6(h5) 10.Kg6+ Qe5 11.Bxe5# ; 9..,Nd5+ 10.Ke6+ Nc3 11.Bxc3+ Qxc3 12.f8Q# ; 9..,Ne8+ 10.fxe8Q+ Qf8+ 11.Qxf8#; 9..,Qf2+ Ke7+ 10.Qf6 Bxf6#)

Q1:
part1:
1.e3 j5 2. Cd3 Rj6 3. Qf3 Rg6 4. Cf4 h6 5. Cxg6#

part2:
1. f3 a5 2. Cd3 Ra6 3. Cf4 Rg6 4. Ad4 h6 5. Ab3 f6 6. Cxg6#

----------------------------------------
----------------------------------
Q2:
1.Bb1 f5 2.Ka4 h5 3.Ka3 h4 4.Ka2 f4 5.Ka1 h2 6.Ba2 h3 7.Kb1 f5 8.Kc1 Ka8 9.Kd1 Kb7 10.Bb1 Ka8 11.Ke1 Kb7 12.Kf1 Ka8 13.Kf2 Kb7 14.Ke1 (the point is to make a triangle to lose a turn) Ka8 15.Kd1 Kb7 16.Kc1 Ka8 17.Ba2 Kb7 18.Kb1 Ka8 19.Ka1 Kb7 20.Bb1 Ka8 21.Ka2 Kb7 22.Ka3 Ka8 23.Ka4 Kb7 24.Ka5 Kc8 (24..,Ka8 25.Ka6 any 26.b7#) 25.Ka6 f2 26.b7+ Kd7 27.b8Q f1Q 28.Qxe5
I hope that black is in a mate trap eg: 28..,Qxh1 29.Qxf5+ Ke8 30.Qg6+ Kd8 31.Bb6+ Ke7 32.Bc5+ Kd8 33.Qd6+ Kc8 34.Qe6+ Kb8 35.Bd6+ Ka8 36.Qg8#
----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Q3:
1.Rd6
A)1..,Bxd6 2.exd6 (threat:3.Bxc5 and double attack to queen and king)
a1) 2..,Kd7 3.f5 Bh7 (or Bxf5) 4.Bxf7 Nf6 5.Bg5 (and 6.capturesN)
a2)2..,Qa7 (or Qd8) 3.f5 Bxf5(or Bh7 ) 4.Bxf7 Kxf7 5.Qc4 (and black loses king or knight or bishop in next move)
a3)2..,Qc6 3.Bb5
a4)2..Kd8 same as a1 but in last move it’s possible to play 5..,Nd7 6.BxK
a5)2..Kf8 3.f5 Bxf5 [3..,Bh7 4.Qxh5 5.QxB(or N)] 4.Bxf7 Nf6 (or Kxf7) 5.Qf3 and 6.QxB(or K or N)
a6)2..,Be4 3.Bxc5

B)1..,Rc6 2.Rxg6 (threat:3.Bxf7 Kxf7 4.Qc4 Re6 5.Bxc5 and 6.captures Q or B)
b1)2..,Rxg6 3.Bxc5 and 4.captures Q or B)
b2)2..,Kd7(d8) 3.Bxf7 and 4.captures N

C)1..,Qc7 2.Rxg6 (two threats: 3.Rxg7 Nh6 4.Qxh5 and 3.Bxf7 Kxf7 4.Qc4)
c1)2..,Bd8 3.Rxg7 Ne7 4.Rd1 and 5.captures N or Q or B
c2)2..Bf8 3.Bxc5 and 4.captures N or Q or B or K
c3)2..Bh4 3.g3 Bd8 4.Rd1 Be7 5.Bxf7 Kxf7 6.Qc4 and 7.captures K or N (the longest line)

D)1..Qa7 same as (C) but black queen doesn’t defend f7 after Bishop’s moves so one of two threats win.
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Q4:
1.Bc7 Qxc8 (1..,Nxc7 2.gxf7+ Kf8 3.Qxc7) 2.gxf7+ Kh8 (2..,Kf8 3.Bd6#) 3.Be5 (4.Ke7#) Qc5 [3..,h6(h5) 4.Kg6#; 3..,Qf8 4.Ke6+ Qg7 5.f8Q#; 3..,Qc6+ 4.Ke7+;3..Qb8 4.Bxb8; 3..Qd8+ 4.Ke6+ ; 3..Qa6 4.Ke7+; 3..,Qf5+ 4.Kxf5#]
4.Bb2 Nc7 5.Ba1 a4 6.Bb2 a3 7.Ba1 a2 8.Bb2 a1Q 9.Bxa1 Qa3 10.Kf5+ Qxa1 11.f8Q#

(9..,Qa5 10.f8Q#; 9..,h6(h5) 10.Kg6+ Qe5 11.Bxe5# ; 9..,Nd5+ 10.Ke6+ Nc3 11.Bxc3+ Qxc3 12.f8Q# ; 9..,Ne8+ 10.fxe8Q+ Qf8+ 11.Qxf8#; 9..,Qf2+ Ke7+ 10.Qf6 Bxf6#)

Thanks to chessmaster I discovered that I like extinction chess
Now I should sleep :-)

Fariborz2 you succedded in answering all questions correctly. I have communicated with Fencer to add a one year membership on you.......

The only semi-correct question was Q-2 since the line you gave was far from optimal for white (he could mate at the ending position much easier) and ESPECIALLY for black (he could delay mate MUCH longer, there were many more tricks he could do to just delay it...), but your whole idea-combination was correct so.......

Chessmaster1000:
Thanks for prize and the nice brain exercise

Well, my current games will be my last. I just gave away my B pawn (and my rook will follow) again.

I do not like this setup because when an opponent advances a pawn, it exposes a direct threat to my pieces. Chess does not have this flaw.

Thad: In that case Thad, may I invite you to a couple of games of Janus Chess? :)

Walter Montego: Is that an inside joke? Does Janus chess have the same flaw? I've never played it. ;-)

Thad: I'm not sure what you're saying is a flaw. The B pawn can be protected, surely? Could you elaborate?

Thad: I'm not sure what flaw it is that you're talking about. Do you mean a particular game that you're playing or Gothic Chess in general? In Janus Chess to Pawns are unguarded at the start of the game, but it's not a flaw at all. Janus Chess is a tough challenging game. Very simular to Gothic Chess. You get two Januses and the set up is like regular Chess. A Janus is the same piece as the Archbishop. Having two of them makes for trouble. They work together in ways that a Chancellor and Archbishop cannot. For some reason, it's taking me a long time to get better at Janus Chess than Gothic Chess, though that might be because I've played and lost a lot of games to Sumerian's Smirf program. I have a tough end game going with it right now. I'm learning. It's Bishop, Rook, and Pawns against Janus and Pawns.

In regualr chess, you must move a piece to use it in an attack. In Gothic, you can attack with the bishop without ever moving it, you only have to unblock it by moving a pawn. I suppose at the higher levels, this is just an annoyance, rather than a flaw, but for novices, I see this as a weakness in the layout.

Thad: I don't see that as much of a problem. It's caused from the board being rectangular instead of square. In Janus Chess the Bishops can do that too, though it's the Rook Pawns that they attack without moving and the diagonal isn't good as the one in Gothic Chess. Plus moving them Pawn isn't always a good thing to do early, especially moving them both. Try a few games and see.

You just need to be careful and in each case moving the pawns or more rightly The knights to h3 or c3 for White and h6 or c6 for Black usually will eliminate this bad play from happening. But even in regular chess bad mooves can lead to very Quick mates;or lost games. However in Gothic you can sometimes overcome these moves because of the extra pieces. Whereas in regular chess recovery is next to impossible.

I have heard a rumor that this game will be leaving this site due to the fact that Fencer and the guy who holds the patent rights in the US will not be renewing their agreement. Does anyone know if this is true and when their current agreement ends?

End of March. Not up to me.

I was wondering why this chess variant is called gothic chess? Why the term "gothic?"

Also, I am intrigued by it. Does anybody know the drawing percentages at these tournaments? Also, how many players on average play in them?

One last question. In standrd chess, opening theory is out of control. Shuffling the bank rank helps alleviate this. I am wondering if gothic chess will experinace this same fate since its bank rank is the same for each game? I do not believe so because the 2 added pieces makes it too complex. What are people's thoughts here?

Regards,
Mark Havrilla

How do I sign up for a gothic chess tournament? What is the name for the current one?

At present there are many tournaments open to sign up on BrainKing that include Gothic Chess, see http://brainking.com/game/Tournaments?trnst=0&tp=41&submit=Show

For official Gothic Chess Federation tournaments, see http://www.gothicchess.org/tournaments.html

As for the name "Gothic", it is intented to span generation gaps; Ed Trice once explained: "Younger people are familiar with the Gothic lifestyle (the wearing of dark colors, staying up extremely late, etc) and older people are familiar with Gothic architecture. So, in a very real sense, 'Gothic' could register as "something new" or "something old" depending on the focus group."

At BrainKing, Gothic Chess games have a drawing percentage of 2.39 %.

Thad: Until a holder of any American patent registers his/her patent at the European Patent Office or the Czech Patent Office, the subject of this patent can be used no matter whether the holder of the patent agrees with such usage or not. I.e., there's no agreement between Fencer and EdTrice needed so that Gothic Chess could be played here.

This issue of patent rights was discussed last year. You have to realize that any country that is part of the World Trade Organization is bound by the agreement to respect patent rights in other countries. All countries in the European Union are part of the WTO; therefore, the Gothic Chess patent is legally binding in those countries. In other words, the BK website has to renew the license before it can continue offering Gothic Chess to its members. Until we don't hear officially from the owners of the website, we cannot tell whether the license will be renewed or not. Speculating on the matter is of no use to anyone.

Is Gothic Chess still at cowplay.com?

Oh come on, Cerebro. You either don't know what you're talking about or you're a very bad lawyer. You say that any WTO member country has to respect any patents registered in other member countries??? That is such a nonsense. I have already recommended to Fencer not to renew the "license". It seems you have troubles differentiating between intellectual property law and patent law. I'd wish Trice sued Fencer, I would represent Fencer for free, if he wanted me.

In reality it all depends on how strong enforcement is in the Czech Republic and the European Union. However, the rights conferred to the holder of the patent and the conditions under which the patent can be used without licensing are all given in Section 5 of the Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). Article 1 of the TRIPS Agreement gives the member countries the ability to determine how the agreement will be enforced within their own legal systems. At this point it is where we reach the grey area. If a member country has made no provisions for enforcing the TRIPS Agreement, then patents and other forms of intellectual property can be left dangling in the air. There are examples in the Interpretations of the Agreement for cases where disputes have arisen but generally these involve countries rather than individuals. At least on paper member countries are supposed to enforce the agreement. Whether it happens in practice is a different story.

The cost to have the game here was $1. It is here for everyone's enjoyment and benevolence. Let us rest this patent argument.

BuilderQ: no, and it looks like a stupid discussion board issue was to blame...

WhiteTower: Unlike here, where it's weathered just about everything thrown at it and keeps on ticking. :) I imagine the game will be here in its present form, one way or the other. Seems to have a lot of lives.
What is cowplay, and what happened to the game there?

The International Patent was awarded 6 months ago.

CowPlay.com was in non-compliance with their license, having until December 31, 2004 to send me $1. I had filed for the international infringement case on December 30, "just in case". Gothic Chess was pulled from their site and they were fined $275 per day of non-compliance.

This lit up the discussion board at ChessVariants.org for a while

http://www.chessvariants.org/index/listcomments.php?itemid=GothicChess