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Onderwerp: Re: Total Number of Gothic Chess Positions
More on the pawn count...
Originally I had the non-captured pawn permutaion count at 774,468,423,574,600,034,220 which, as Thad pointed out, seems a little high. When using the concept of the "rammed pawns" constrained to a rank, there are actually 30 different configurations possible per file.
You can have an unmoved pawn in the a-file on a2, and the black pawn can be one of 5 different squares in the same file, a7,a6,a5,a4 or a3. If the white pawn were on a3, then there are 4 squares for the black pawn, etc.
There are always 5-r permutations for the black pawn for each rank of displacement, r, the white pawn has moved.
So, there are 5+4+3+2+1 = 30 possible configurations per file. The total number of permutations is therefore 30^10, which is 590,490,000,000,000. This is only 590 trillion, a lot less than 774 quintillion!
You can see that the BrainPawn section was hit the hardest, since most made new IDs to participate in this event (which was fine) but now their population has been cut in half. Some people may not even remember all of the IDs they made just for this event, so I am thinking about scrapping it altogether.
Despite the recent tragedy, the very strong 1800+ Gothic Chess Tournament concluded recently. There was a major upending of ratings as a result of the strong fighting it out with the strong. ChessCarpenter gained the most points, scoring a stunning 6 out of 8 and nearly getting a draw with me. My own personal adversary, nstre (who always plays me tough) managed only 2 out of 8, and Fencer was blanked!
I hope to run some more strong events such as this more often. Those who are in the top 10 that would like to participate in such an event, please let me know.
Strictly a chess variant is played with standard chess men and board, in this catagory there exists suicide chess which has been played at least once by almost every young player. Your game uses a different board and pieces putting it in the same catagory as games like Mak Ruk, Janngi, Shogi and Tsiang Ki, games with tens of millions of regular players.
A chess variant is any variation on the game of chess. Shogi is considered a stand alone game by itself. I have played Gothic Chess face to face with the world's strongest occidental Shogi player, Chess International Master Larry Kaufman.
He does not consider Gothic Chess and Shogi to be in the same category.
Considered by whom? Larry Kaufman has never been considered to be clearly the strongest occidental shogi player, Glyndon Townend was considered stronger in the eighties and in the nineties the likes of Grimbergen were at least his equal. Tsiang Ki is of course a lot more popular than Shogi, do you also have that as a "stand alone"?
I am just relaying the message. I interviewed Larry for Gothic Chess review, the quarterly magazine. Larry told me he was the highest rated Shogi player that was not Asian. I do not know if that was a "current" statement at the time of the interview, or if it reflected a previous accolade.
I cannot speak of Tsiang Ki since I am unaware of these Asian variants. I can only relay what I have been told by a formidabe player.
I sold Gothic Chess sets in every state of the USA, every province and territory in Canada, and about 47 other countries at last count. I have post cards from people from all over the world who tell me how much they like the game.
I have a postcard from a U.S. soldier in Iraq saying he saw his supply Seargant playing Gothic Chess, and that he would order one when he returned from active duty.
A scientist at the South Pole Observatory also has a Gothic Chess set.
These are not one-time players, these are zealots who are strong advocates of the game. I have also played suicide chess once or twice, does that mean I am counted in the popularity index? I played it, gave it a try, and don't particularly care for it.
There are many different metrics you can use to gauge something as intangible as "popularity", and I think unsolicited testimonials from many different corners of the globe is a fair measure.
Let's start with a more tangible one. Is there a Suicide Chess Federation?
You consider the existence of a "federation" to demonstrate proof of popularity? There is a federation of Gogo shogi, the first time I ever played the game was in a match for the world championship such is the paucity of players. A federation demonstrates some manner of commitment by the practitioners, it has nothing to do with popularity.
I just checked online, found some links for Suicide Chess, but no federation or other governing body.
So let's look at some details.
First, we are focusing on the "popularity" of variants, a bit nebulous, but I think we both can agree on some common ground.
I guess my first question is, how many people play Suicide Chess? Is there a way to estimate this? I am not sure "tens of millions" is a viable answer for this variant.
Surely if there were "tens of millions", even if 1% of these players banded together to duke it out regularly we might expect to see a federation formed with some multiple of 100,000 players.
Or can something be very popular and yet have no centralized governing body? I don't think there is a World Jogging Federation, although groups such as the New York Road Runners' Club exist.
I am not sure there is a universal answer. I can quantify sales. I can quanitify interest in the form of email contact and other communications. I can attest to people feeling very strongly about the game of Gothic Chess.
I would think such a combination would allow me to say that this is a very popular variant of chess.
Okay, so you no longer claim that it's the world's most popular chess variant. I guess you'd be happy to admit that the statement previously displayed on your profile was an exaggeration if you dont want to go as far as calling it an absurdity.
I know for a fact the USCF has a balance sheet of -$2,000,000. I spoke with Grant Perks (can you imagine that is the name of a person seated in the Finance Committee of a failing non-profit??) about the situation, and I recently (one month ago) met with Stan Booz, one of the CPA's working with the USCF. We went over the books of the USCF and he identified the key areas that were the cause of all of its strife.
They spun off the Products & Services sector, an annual $3,000,000 revenue stream, to the highest of 10 sealed bids. They needed about $300,000 immediately in order to get their "Christmas Inventory" in place, which is why I was meeting with Stan.
Stan told me 17 people were let go to reduce the cost of the payroll, some waste/fraud/abuse was discovered by some former high-level officers who are no longer involved. And the "relocation project" where the headquarters was moving was a real nightmare, I will not get into that.
I thought it said "One of the most popular variants of chess in the world" in my profile. I don't recall ever changing it to explicitly state it was the best variant in the world, because there is no real way to measure this.
I think you have both missed the point. There are, I would suggest, three types of variants:
1. Alternative Rules Where a standard, or near standard board is used but the rules are changed which usually emphasises one or more aspects of traditional chess ... examples are suicide chess, atomic chess, extinction chess and loop chess. These result in a limitation of the current strategies and tactics.
2. Alternate Starting Arrangements Using traditional rules but with different starting positions ... examples are Fortress chess and Corner Chess. These result in alternate strategies and tactics.
3. Alternate Boards and/or Pieces These alternatives attempt to expand on the basic tenets of traditional chess ... examples are Gothic Chess, Janus Chess, Grand Chess and Shogi (although a Shogi player may well consider our traditional chess to be the variant!). If main-stream chess is to change it will be into one (or a combination) from this group as they offer teh opportunity to expand the strategies and tactics of the game.
In the end, they all add to our experiences of war gaming with little pieces on a generally chequered board. Chess has always been in a state of change although there have been few changes in recent times. As more people play I think all types of variants will increase in popularity as they explore the bounds of their experience ... and each person will have their favourite(s). If traditional chess is to change it will be a gradual process which may take many generations before it is like gothic or janus
me how to play Gothic Chess?? I believe I am getting some free time in my busy schedy.. and would agree to a venture for a variation of Chess.. I am a fairly decent player.. Not a Master but, I put up a good challenge..
discussed chess variants, suggesting there are three types ...
1. Alternative rules which might emphasis one (or more) particular aspects of traditional chess which has the effect or limiting chess.
2. Alternative starting arrangements lke fortress and corner chess, which only provides alternative strategies and tactics without expnading the game.
3. Alternative boards and/or pieces, such as Gothic, Janus, Grand and Shogi which work to expand Chess.
Further, the argument over suicide vs Gothic was not a real one as they are different types. I think the first type will always be around as they can be used to hone strengths and weakenesses, the second will come and go as they really offer little except the burning of opening books, and the third will always be the largest group where many will come and go but few will remain. The ones which remain are more likely to be established as an independant game (such as Shogi ... here with some discussion over which is the actual variant Shogi or traditional chess) or contribute to the gradual change which does happen within chess over generations.
Very well said! I was grappling for the concept in trying to stratify the Gothic and Suicide variants, but I just did not summarize it as well as you did.
Interesting to note that there are two forms of the #3 item. There are those variants that bloom and become a different stand alone game, and there are those that become so dominant that they took over and the previous iteration of the game withers and dies.
GothicI: RE your last comment, not being a chess history buff I don't know, but I wonder if it was not more a process of assimilation than replacement. Take for instance the en passant move or the double move of the pawn from the 2nd rank.
In the historical framework, the en passant move was really the French's "pet peeve". Even while Paul Morphy was still playing, en passant was not universally agreed upon, although most players did play this way. Howard Staunton was instrumental in getting the rules and standards written down, and I think it was 1881 that the official description on en passant made its way into "chess law."
The most interesting evolution I think was that concerning castling. The Italian players wanted the king to move ANY two squares, with the ability to place the rook next to wherever the king landed! Now that would be confusing! I think it took 80 years for the "freeformers" to be tamed to just horizontal movements of the king.
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