Hexis: After d4xd6xd8 it is possible by rules to jump to f8 as a pawn and it then it becames to a queen. So through g8 it is impossible. However, I tried it too.

takjas: We found the reason of this bug! Exactly the same happened in the test game Dameo (Jaak vs. takjas)
Here black get a queen in E1 and cannot capture neither to C1 nor to G1, also cannot finish the move with a queen in E1. As a donkey dying of hunger between two haystacks!
Remember that it was correct with one "haystack": Dameo (Jaak vs. takjas)
Fencer , if you have time to solve this systematic bug then also Dameo (Jaak vs. takjas) is very good for testing while we have thinking time.
It's strange that the posts Checkers variants (8x8) (takjas, 2018-09-26 09:22:46) and Checkers variants (8x8) (Hexis, 2018-10-22 20:10:27) are not in this thread.

Jaak: Hello, as there should be the quantity rule present, how about trying d4xd6xd8xg8xg6xc6xc4xa4?

takjas: The bug repeated in the position Dameo (Jaak vs. takjas) . If I click my pawn d4, it jumps to d8 and becomes a queen. I cannot continue jumping neither to b8 nor to f8. I see red text "Finish the move by clicking on one of submit buttons. You can write a message for your opponent." but if I click the button "Move", I get the GameList and the move is NOT done.
We saw that in other test games it was all correct but what can be the reason here?
Maybe two ways after d8 - b8 and f8.
Maybe there is conflict rules: white have a queen but cannot finish the move as a queen neither d8xb8xb3 nor d8xg8xg6xg3 - they are incorrect moves.

takjas: In Dameo (takjas vs. Good Luck :)FLR) I want jump to D4xD6xD8xF8

rabbitoid: We played some test games.
In the final position Dameo (Jaak vs. takjas) there is black queen in G1. Perfect!
Dameo (Jaak vs. takjas) there is black queen in E1 and pawn G2 didn't made the move wrong. Excellent!
So I see that Dameo rules are right in BrainKing. However possible that in Dameo (takjas vs. Good Luck :)FLR) the pawn B4 made this bug. White get queen but cannot finish the move as a queen. We try more test games too.

Jaak: try to isolate the problem: make a position with possible jump like d4-d6-d8-b8 but without a pawn on e8, and without a continued jump from b8. Would that work?

Again, this is all just curiosity. There is a bug, yes, but there is no one on brainking to correct bugs.

takjas: Yes, all is understanding.
We played a test game. In the position Dameo (Jaak vs. takjas) followed
5. d4xd6xb6xb8xd8xd6 c5xc3xc1xe1xg1xg3
There are white pawn in d6 and black pawn in f3. It is correct here. By the same rule in Dameo (takjas vs. Good Luck :)FLR) it must get white queen in b8 or f8.

In the position Dameo (takjas vs. Good Luck :)FLR) if I click my pawn d4 it jumps immediately to d8 and becames a queen (no choice to jump 21.d4xd6xf6). I cannot continue jumping neither to b8 nor to f8. Look https://gyazo.com/368253e87bc36b5abffba361aa02a879
There is red text "Finish the move..." but if i click the button "Move" then I get Main page and the move is not done.

I long time ago write him but not answer

You can try to contact Fencer. If he's in a good mood he may do something about it. Otherwise just resign. So Dameo is one more game with an unsolved bug. Too bad.

rabbitoid:
Nowhere emerge hand. I can not do nothing

rabbitoid:
Nowhere emerge hand. I can not do nothing

takjas: Try something: move d4-d6-d8, then move your cursor over each square on the board to see if the arrow becomes a hand. It could be a square which doesn't make sense. If it becomes a hand just go there.

Anyway it's probably just a bug in the game, which is too bad because Fencer no longer corrects them. You'd better resign, otherwise this game will just eat away your vacation days.

takjas: Hi all. You should be able to play D4xB8 or D4xF8. For me these are the correct moves. However, if you can't play them, please try D4xB3 or D4xB2 or D4xB1 through D4xD6xD8xB8xB3 or B2 or B1. 

rabbitoid:
I can not do nothing. only move d4*d8

Maybe the pawn is promoted directly to queen? then yon can move d8-g8-g6-....

No other ideas, sorry

rabbitoid:
I cannot finish my move neither in d8 neither in b8 neither in f8

rabbitoid: Thanks for your responce!
I read the rules carefully but I see a contradiction.
In Dameo a pawn can reach the last row while jumping only vertically - then the next jump backwards is the same way and a piece is jumped twice - it is impossible.
May be in BrainKing Dameo games after jump to the last row it cannot continue jumping horizontally, but then this "However..." is nonsence.
Then in this position the promoted Queen must stop in d8. We cannot change it and it is very difficult to Fencer too.
Inventor of the game Christian Freeling wrote else:
"If a man ends its move on the opponent's back row, it is promoted to king. A man passing the back row in a capture, but not ending on it, does not promote."
http://mindsports.nl/index.php/arena/dameo/65-rules
I understand that in ArenA it can continue jumping horizontally.

Jaak: no

Look at the rules, section Dameo:
When a pawn reaches the last row, it promotes to a queen. However, if a pawn reaches the last row while jumping and can jump more pieces backwards, it does not promote and continues jumping as a pawn.

So no d8-f8 or d8-b8.

takjas: I understand it is mandatory to capture 21. d4xd6xd8xb8 or d4xd6xd8xf8. Do you say it is not possible?

I can not finish my move.
Dameo (takjas vs. Good Luck :)FLR)
my only move is d4*d8 and then is nothing can do

Currently looking for serious game players who play checkers and variants to join Brian's 1971 Pub. Starting March 14th, we will have the following checkers tournaments begin in my fellowship...Checkers, Czech checkers, Italian Checkers and Corner checkers. Please request membership to play in any of these tournaments. Thank you.

Please checkers players join my fellowship, Brian's 1971 Pub to participate in checkers games tournaments beginning march 15th.

rabbitoid: Thanks, I see it now.

Justaminute: Game rules -> Dameo. The page lists all the quirks for particular variants of checkers. For Dameo (the last) "Pawns can jump backwards" is checked, so yes, for this particular variant they do.

In playing a game of Dameo the site allowed, in fact insisted that I make a backwards capture of a pawn with a pawn. I playing white had a pawn on a5, my opponent moved to a4 and i had to take it moving to a3. Is this a bug or a valid move? It isnt clear to me that pawns can move backward, it doesnt normally happen in checkers.

Gabriel Almeida: P.S. - it was a Draw at Your move 35. All other moves are unusefull.

joshi tm: undertaker is obviously right, And i even say more: any good player would accepted that Draw a long time ago!

joshi tm: It's draw. Your opponent cannot win you, because, like you said, you control the diagonal.

In this game: Braziliaans Dammen (Perin - joshi tm) my opponent has 3 queens and I have only one. Of course I cannot win, but as long as I control the diagonal, my opponent can't also win, right? Can I force a draw or have I lost the game already?

I think Jump Checkers has pretty deep strategy. Between deciding to split jump or force your your way to the King Row, it can be pretty tough in the early going. When it gets near to being all Kings is when you find yourself checking far to make sure before making it all Kings.

Lightbug: Well, I prefer portuguese draughts. You can find a lot of literature about the game, because it is more predictable. So, studying makes you stronger, what is grateful for any player. However, I know much better portuguese than brasilian draughts, and I (of course) accept a different opinion!

Which variation of 8x8 Checkers do you guys find to have the deepest strategy? Being able to capture backwards on 8x8 does seem to make it more interesting, but does the long range king or queen make the game better also? If it does, then perhaps playing 8x8 Draughts with the Polish or International Draught rules might be the best. 10x10 seems so large that I start to lose interest. Brazilian Draughts has the same rule set as Polish Draughts but for 8x8, but does the game have a following? Or does not being able to capture backwards better for 8x8 in Portugese Draughts?

furbster: Hi furbster. Of course, it's possible. El Cid cannot make more mores, so you're the winner. Happen the same with all checkers variants, but it's an unusual endgame.

furbster: I don't know, but... WOW... really strange! Should give you an achievment!

is it common for a game to end with nto one piece being taken?
Dameo (furbster vs. El Cid)

Bernice: thats nice....pictures would really help but this really gives me a new outlook and a place to start!

Czuch: there are no pics but here is the words.....

Anti Checkers by Fernando Ferreira:


Introduction:
I decided to write this article for two reasons, the first one was that almost all games have some tips and strategies so that people who start playing it can have some idea of what they are doing and I guess anti checkers was in need of the same, as I never done something like that I guess this would be a challenge for me even because I’m not writing in my main language which makes this the second reason . If someone who is reading this see any mistake I made please say something.
I’m going to use some anti checkers matches as an example so I hope people won’t mind. I used Cake Manchester to allow me to set up the board so I could give some examples.

Rules:
The rules of this game are exactly the same as checkers but the goal is to loose the game ,pretty simple ? maybe not!

Basic Strategy:
The strategy of an huge majority of people who start playing this game is trying to give as many pieces away as possible, that’s the WORST strategy and will not give you any win.
The best strategy, even if it is hard to manage, is try to have more pieces than your opponent and only give them away when you can give all, in anti chess they use the expression “loosing machine” to say when a player will be forced to jump all his opponent’s pieces and I liked that so maybe I use it or it’s initial “LM” . This strategy has some exceptions which I will talk about later.

Starting the game:
I could write two pages about this part without saying everything I wanted to say so let’s keep it simple. First thing is never allow your opponent to trap you in the “Dead Corner” as shown in the image 1 unless you have a pretty good reason for it, it’s going to be hard to get it out of there before you get caught in a “LM”.


Dead Corner

Always be careful with the pieces you have in row 2, 4, 6. A piece in line 1 has only the potential to jump up to 3 pieces as once row 7 is reached it can’t jump any more. On the other hand a piece in any of the row’s mentioned is enough to jump all pieces in board.
Finding wins is one really hard part of the game to master (Even me after so many games loose a lot because I just didn’t see it) so I’m going to leave some here has exercise (2 of them were some top player games and they both missed it) . They will have different types of difficulty, the first type is mainly the basic victories in anti checkers, and the hard ones will be a challenge even for the most experienced players.
In the middle game the strategy remains the same.




Black to move and win -easy



Black to move and win-easy
As I said a piece in row 4 (white row 4) can be forced to jump all pieces




Black to move and win-easy



Black to move and win-medium


Black to move and win-medium



White to move and win- pro



Black to move and win – pro




Black to move and win- Pro

------------//-------------------



White has just made this move! Let’s analyse it:
Most probably white is thinking: well if red jumps with the piece in 15 square he looses but he may miss it, if he jumps with the piece in 13 I am going to be in material advantage!
Even_if I invented this game I guess that is what white would be thinking :)! However by doing so white is putting itself in a loosing situation. I’m going to show it. After 2 move the game would be like this (the move not shown is black giving his piece in square 22 away):



Now whatever white moves red can win! I call that a “trapped king win”!
If white tries to take his king out of there black would make the move 1-5 and would easily win
If white tries to move 20 –15 then the game would end up like this:


White trapped and whatever it does it will loose.

So I end this part with some very good advice: Never let your opponent trap one of your kings even if it is not an immediate win!





Flawed wins:
Sometimes you almost see a win but your opponent has some way out. I consider a flawed win when you start giving the pieces away meaning putting yourself in disadvantage hoping that your opponent do not see his way out. I’m not going to show any example of this but I guess it would be good to talk about it.


End games
1vs1- always a win to the player who has the edge advantage

Player to move wins

1 vs. more than one- can be a win a draw or a loose to the player with 1 piece. Looses are the most common .I will post here the only possibility of a draw I can remember and some of the many possibilities of wining with that single piece.

Loosing situations against 1 piece:

White to move and no way out so loose.












White to move-draw position
Red to move –win position for red



2vs2 – Can either be a draw if your both pieces are together and in a “good position” or a win (loose...)I am going to show some “good positions” and some bad positions which would make you loose.

Both black and white in a good position -draw.


The arrows show the moves you need to do if you want to be certain you continue in a good position!

White to move and win:




2 vs. more than 2- 2 pieces if in a good position like the ones I showed before cannot be reached without putting yourself in a loosing situation so that would be a draw, unless you have more than 8 pieces then the endgame would be something has shown in this image. 2 pieces can also be in a winning position as any number of pieces can be. Of course 2 pieces could also loose.


8 vs. 2 win, when white in a “good” position

Exceptions:
Now that you have a deeper understanding of the game I am going to talk about those exceptions. There is a very important quality of your game, which I call “threatening” . For an example imagine this: your opponent has such a game that really restricts your moves, some will make you loose pieces, and some would make you get caught in a “LM”, now imagine you give one or two away and put one of your opponent’s pieces in the back of your game he will not be able to give all his pieces away in most cases will he? So you are not so afraid that he finds a win and then you will have more mobility and he will be in trouble because you the one who have a “threatening” game now.
I will list some exceptions as an example. I’m sure some players disagree with me at this point so I’m welcome to critics.


In this case even if white has two more pieces than black, white moves are clearly restricted! Of course if white finds a way out will be in advantage but now that only depends in the skill of both players! Curiosity: ( I was white and I lost this game vs. Yuri maybe now I would not but at the time I lost it.)


H-2 Square for black and A-8 Square for white is in many cases a good place to put one of your opponent pieces!


Any suggestion and comments (constructive ones) will be welcome! If you think that there is something I could write to this please say it and if I find it convenient I will add it here!


Fernando Ferreira
mailto:Fernas24@hotmail.com

Czuch: I think I have it somewhere in a Word document... I searched it now and couldn't find it, but I'll keep on trying.

Yes that link is no good anymore and nothing left in his profile....

Czuch: Bernice

Thank you! Some awesome advice...even you Nwrnice!

Gabriel Almeida: Unfortunately the graphics are invisible :(

Or you can see it in here! ;)

Czuch: Fernando Ferreira (Fernando F.) was one of the most impressive players in Brainking, in some games (if you forget the cheaters, of course... :)). He was a clean and amazing players of suiciders (anti-checkers), certainly the best ever, in BK. He wrote an article about the game. Learn everything in the article, and you'll be a pro! You can see it in his profile! :)

Czuch: more practice I guess :)

I cant win this game.... what is the secret?