(V): Ketchup is made from tomatos. The tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable.

Another option is the government could close down its free lunch program and provide every family with paper bags, bread, and peanut butter. At one point in my life I was making less money than people on welfare were getting, and I was still able to supply enough food for my kids sack lunches.There were people we knew on welfare who would come to us to "borrow" food, money and toilet paper (who 'lends' toilet paper?) One mother became angry when I tried to suggest how she could make her food allowance stretch out for the entire month. After that, we stopped "lending" to people who had more to work with than we did. You can't fix stupid, so why even try?

(V): Regan was joking. He was making fun of the fact that ketchup was already listed as a vegetable on a nutrition chart. Somehow it got turned around in news reports to say that Ragen thought it was vegetable. Typical news reporting, you can't say anything without someone trying to twist it around to mean something else. It worked though, most people still believe the lie.. including you.

Artful Dodger: lol Yes, this is the politics board, and the political implications of an alien take over are staggering. No one fears a chocolate take over. If Obama shames us into giving up our guns and our Bibles, we will be completely helpless. If shootin em don't work, we can always whack em over thar spongy little grey heads with our Bibles. That'll learn em.

rod03801: lol Hey Vern, it's Earnest! I hadn't thought of that, but you're right! They have to get through the debris field before even getting to earth. By now some of that debris isn't even from us, know what I mean? Them aliens think they can get past all our garbage got a another think coming. Human beans rule!

Artful Dodger: What I don't understand is why, with all of their superior technology able to travel through the dangerous vastness of space, when the aliens finally get here a lot of them crash land on earth. And they leave spaceship debris and bodies for us to find and spirit away to a secret site everyone knows about..

Iamon lyme: ..by "calling" us spacists. (Ungh.. this always happens if I don't look at what I wrote)

Artful Dodger: It seems it's okay to make fun of aliens (from outer space). No one has played the space card by called us spacists.. thus far.

Artful Dodger: "You know more stuff than I know."

I thought it was the other way around. You are smarter than I am, but if you say I know more stuff then who am I to argue.. heh heh heh heh heh..

I was discussing aliens with someone a few years ago, then someone else I knew walked up to us, so I asked him, "What do you think? What do the aliens want?" He said, "They want our jobs." I don't think he knew exactly what we were talking about, but maybe he stumbled onto to something.. Maybe the aliens (from outer space) do want our jobs.. and our women. I mean, look at them. How attractive could their own women be? I have a better theory though (don't we all?). I think earth is merely a rest stop on their way to somewhere else.. [ Next Rest Stop 11.5 Lightyears ]

Artful Dodger: Aw come on, we WANT him to believe we are same person.. don't we? I don't mind that he does, I think it's funny. Doesn't matter, he doesn't believe anything we, er, I mean I say anyway. heh heh heh heh heh..

(V): Of course you would say that (about global warming), but I doubt you are saying it for the same reason people closer to the top of the money chain are saying it. There's a lot of money to be made in the hope that enough people buy into the so called global warming "crises". I doubt you are part of that group hoping to personally gain from it, which begs the question,, just why are you so eager to believe almost anything you hear coming from your own masters, the left leaning profit mongers?

(V): I know you are, but what am I?

Artful Dodger: Don't they have activists in Afghanistan to stand up for the god given right to fart? The camels would surely protest.. how could they stop them? Oh, right.. corks!

Artful Dodger: The gas is always greener on the other side.. peeuw!

(V): ??? you want me to use google to answer a question you presumably know the answer to? In a "perfect" world no one would need to work to get what he needs or wants, he would only need to reach out and take it.. and I'll bet there would be people too lazy to do even that. Like you not even bothering to google it and find out for yourself. lol

(V): "So many types of socialism and you feel safe in such a broad statement?"

They were questions, so should I assume you are making a broad statement when you ask your question to answer mine? Okay, if there are many types of socialism, then what do they have in common that they can all be called socialism? What broad statement do you offer to answer this?

(V): It's well known that many liberal American Jews will side with whatever liberal cause is before them, even if it concerns Israel. It's because of their liberal bent that many of them have little regard for the safety and status of Israel itself, so it should come as no surprise that most of that criticism of Beck would would come from them. However, your point is well taken by anyone ignorant of this.

First of all, isn't socialism just a nicer form of communism? The expressed ideals and proposed outcome seem pretty much the same. But, if at least in theory, it's supposed to be about even distribution of resources, wouldn't that necessarily imply a two class system? A working class and ruling class. And within those two classes there would be many levels (clases) of power and responsibility. So what's the difference between what would have to work out be some sort of corporate monarchy ruling over everyone else, to insure even distribution of resources, and any other kind of monarchy, dictatorship, etc. Aside from the high ideals I'm accustomed to hearing about, what real motivation is there to avoid despots and wanna be despots from taking over? I've never understood why anyone would believe a 'perfect' system of governing is even possible, or desirable. In a perfect universe, all matter and energy would be evenly distributed. Never mind that nothing could live in that kind of universe, only the fact that it would be perfect is relevant..

???

..But the bunny trail was cold, and unused for nearly three years. Undaunted, our hero soon re-emerged and scampered away in search of the clever and elusive Easter Bunny killer bunny.. boing?!

Artful Dodger: Do you suppose they know that we know rabbit trails are for children to explore? The darnedest thing about this is that there are some (semi-) valid points they could be making, but don't. I feel relagated to playing the part of wiseguy here, but that gets old pretty quick.

Artful Dodger: lol That occurred to me too, but if you post rabbit trail comments he'll just point out that you are off topic.. they live in two separate realities at the same time.

Artful Dodger: Phobophobia is a medically recognised phobia.. I don't believe that, I think it's all in his head, but science says otherwise.

Übergeek 바둑이: "..rioting and looting to get what the middle class has.. is a side effect of anticommunism."

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression communism is fueled by resentment over what the middle and upper classes have. Without the coveting of what others have there is no motivation to 'divide the spoils'. Communism can only work when a small group of people are able to convince a majority that they are entitled to what someone else has worked for.

I'm not surprised by the 30% gun ownership figure, but it does sound a little misleading. I would expect a higher percentage in rural communities where a police response would not be as quick. That makes sense. But still I have to wonder how they arrived at what implies a nearly one out three gun ownership figure. It seems like an unusually high number. btw, one of the reasons we have a constituional right to own a weapon is to make sure that if our government ever does become totalitarian (the founding fathers were looking ahead) the average citizen would be able to protect himself against government sanctioned muggers.

Übergeek 바둑이: We've had protests here over different issues, including people getting killed by police for menacing, but nothing like the reaction in the UK. I suspect that something other than one mans death (whether justified or not) is at work.. some kind of tension has obviously been brewing for some time. btw are you sure about that 30% gun ownership in the US? I didn't see Artful dispute that, so I suppose it could be true. I was always more afraid of my wifes impressive stash of kitchen knives than I ever was over some armed bandits breaking in.. maybe they knew about her knives. I don't know.

I thought I was a liberal at one time, but now I don't think I ever really was. Went through the motions for a few years, but I asked too many questions.. like, what exactly is in that kool aid.. man?

I heard this a few weeks ago on the radio.. "A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged." It's easy to criticise someone who defends himself until you find yourself in that position. But what does it say about you if you aren't even willing to protect family members who depend on you?Judging from what I hear in the news, sometimes I think the only ones who really know what's going on are the criminals.

Übergeek 바둑이: I can see where this is going, so just as a heads up maybe I should explain what I mean. First of all, the term 'ignorant masses' isn't just insulting, it's usually used as a means to an end. If you agree with the premise (ignorant masses) you can then assume you are not a part of that group. Thought control is just another way of saying con job. It often works because it appeals to greed (whay you get out if), guilt (do it for the children), or to whatever values and ideals the con man believes is important to you. It doesn't matter if the term ignorant masses is accurate or not, all someone has to do to pursuade you to their way of thinking is to toss the term out and let you do the rest.. obviously, you are not a part of that group, you are part of the group who, whether you know it or not, has taken the first successful step to drawing you into their way of thinking. Being educated and informed is meaningless if all you are dealing with is raw facts and information.. besides, information is usually slanted and 'facts' seem to have little to do with what is true, and are subject to what a majority is willing to believe.

Übergeek 바둑이: ignorant masses.. now where have I heard that before? No one who talks about the 'ignorant masses' assumes they are part of that group. Self deception makes it easier for the so called thought manipulators to do their thing.

(V): Manipulating conscious and unconscious thought? You mean, like how you try telling me the workers and givers are greedy for wanting to impose limits on how much the takers and spenders can get? I know the difference between compulsory giving and giving of my own free will. If you fear being manipulated by conscious/unconscious attempts to persuade you, the remedy is easy.. decide for yourself, based on your own reasoning, if what you are being told is true or not. No one can manipulate your thoughts unless you allow it.

Iamon lyme: Our government could take in a lot more in taxes than they will get from overburdoning businesses by simply allowing, and yes maybe even encouraging, private enterprise to grow and expand. When more businesses are establised and currently running businesses are allowed to grow the net result is more taxable income is created. Government creating jobs compared to what a private ecomony is able to do when left alone is joke. I don't know any economist whos income isn't dependant on political concerns and is free to say exactly how this all works who doesn't understand this.. but then, I don't know any economists whos income isn't dependant on bla bla bla bla bla.

(V): Not so meaningless to someone who hasn't always enjoyed living in relative freedom, security, and prosperity. If these are simply abstract concepts for you, then you don't understand their importance. Private enterprise exists to provide goods and services to people who are willing (not coerced) to purchase, with money they have made working for some other enterprise. Are these the 'greedy' people you are talking to? Government exists on money they take from people who actually produce and provide the goods and services other people are willing to (not coerced into) paying for. When government becomes so powerful it can take more money than it needs to administer its duty to the people who support it, to the point where hard working people have difficulty supporting themselves because of that drain, then who exactly are you saying is being greedy for the money they didn't earn?

Übergeek 바둑이: No, it's not what you said, but even in your response it does seem to be what you are implying. The problem I have with liberalism is that it is anything but liberating. I used to be bothered by how the lefts story will change to benefit themselves in the short run, but now I'm more bothered by what that tactic actually implies.. it means they are more focused on party loyalty than on what it actually takes to insure freedom, security, and prosperity. Those are not givens, and just because most of us have grown up and benefited from those things doesn't mean they are universal principles or laws that just naturally occur. It took time and effort to get these things, but they can just easily be lost or thrown away. It's like the song that says, "You don't know what you got till it's gone." (V) says hey, it takes time for economic recovery to happen. Well, yeah, especially when governmental intervention actually causes economic recovery to stall out or even reverse itself.

Übergeek 바둑이: In a world without absolutes, you are absolutely correct. There is no difference between Obamas presidency and Bushes. It's all the same. No difference at all.

(V): lol Annoying, isn't it?

Iamon lyme: Scale really is a tricky one, but my guess is melting ice would be less of a problem for the earth than it would be for my tall glass of ice water. Less, or the same. As you can see, I care very deeply over the fate of my ice water, especially during periods of global warming..

lizrising: Good questions. Plants do throw off CO2 whenever they are not producing O. They make O when there is light, but at night they actually give off CO2. Obviously I'm not talking about dropping ice cubes into an already full glass of water, that would just be like adding more liquid water to the liquid water. My point about ice and water is mostly about how water contracts when it melts. Most (if not all) other substances will expand when going from solid to liquid. You are right about land based ice melting and adding it's volumn to ocean levels, but before it can even get there other factors are in play, such as evaporation, pooling into ponds and lakes, etc etc. I think maybe the scale of the ocean makes it difficult to believe it wouldn't be a big problem.. after all, it's a big ocean, and a very deep one.

(V): Sci-fi writers talked about using algae for long space flights long before we even tried getting to the moon.. Anyway, environmental alarmists have oversimplified natural global warming and cooling cycles and make it out to be something under our control. I remember the old joke that goes "Everyone complains about the weather but nobody does anything about it." The reason we don't need to worry about dramatically overflooded coastlines is because H2O contracts (instead of expanding) when going from solid to liquid. It has to do with the crystaline structure of ice.. the molecules are farther apart when H2O becomes a solid. Also, we probably see more ice above the waterline because there is more air trapped in the ice than you would see in a perfectly clear ice cube. I hadn't thought of this one before, but if the globe was a bit warmer, then there may be increased evaporation, leading to an even higher percentage of water vapor adding to the "greenhouse effect". But the greenhouse effect is only about trapping heat after the suns rays have already penetrated the veil and reached the ground. More rays are deflected with a heavier veil, therefore over time less and less heat is produced, which perhaps helps to usher in the next global cooling cycle. I'm speculating about a lot of this, but the evironmentalists are correct when they start out telling us how complex this system really is. What impresses me is not that it goes from warm to cool, but that the extremes really aren't so extreme. They don't come close to extinguishing all life on earth.

Artful Dodger: It's true. Warmer climate means more vegetation, more vegetation produces more CO2. But here's one even easier to debunk. I'd like to see this done on the show Myth Busters, but it's too easy and doesn't require blowing anything up.. melting ice would cause a significant rise in ocean water levels. it that was true, my half ice half water glass of liquid should always spill over when the ice melts. No matter how full the glass is, I've never seen that happen.

Artful Dodger: lol Yeah, the gas always greener on the other side.. ??? euwwww... green gas?

After we fix the CO2 crises, then we can take on the other gases. Water vapor alone accounts for about 95% of all (that's right, all) designated gasses attributed to causing the greenhouse effect (hence the name "greenhouse"), but I think maybe we should leave that one alone. However, it shouldn't take long to reduce the remaining trace gasses that have been giving so many ppl here the vapors.. pun intended.

Artful Dodger: Anytime I think ol' ma earth is actually speaking to me, I know it's probably time to up the dosage.. (I post, therefore I am on lyme)

Artful Dodger: We shouldn't pick on Mom like this. She's had a tough life. Earth is basically just a rock with stuff growing on it, but don't tell Ma earth that.. she's kinda gettin up there in years, and don't always know whats a going on.

Artful Dodger: Well, I post therefore I have nothing better to do. Except to come here and have ppl explain to me that pop rocks aren't really rocks, or that popcorn brain has nothing to do with corn. Did I say corn or.. yeah, I did say corn. (whew!)

Artful Dodger: Look, I'm sorry mother earth is going through global menapause right now, but I have my own problems to deal with.

Artful Dodger: I'm sorry that one of my messages to uber didn't make it to the board. I already know he doesn't believe in God by the way he talks about it. I wanted to point out that if people speculated over which version of uber really matters or not, or even if it did matter that perhaps he really doesn't exist except in our imaginations, uber would know right away if any of that was true or not. We can't control what people say or believe about us, but we at least know who we really are and if we even exist or not.

Bernice: gidday Bernice.. btw interesting pic you have up there. If a woman looked at me like that it would scare the (something) out of me. lol

Artful Dodger: As I'm sure you know, logic and reason are always welcomed by people who already agree with you, but not always by people who don't. If uber is laying claim to logic, then maybe it's time for me to confess that I'm actually a beautiful young woman posing as a grumpy old man.. oh, you shush now AD, don't you be spreading any stories now, you hear!!

Tuesday: Well, he actually said he didn't come to abolish (change) the law, but to fulfill it. As children growing up the rules appear to change, but it only appears that way because we begin to change. If it appears there are contradictions between old and new testament it's because we are slowing being brought along, just like a good parent is patient as their child slowly learns how to navigate life. Things changed within the book of Genesis alone, so we can't really say there was only one transistion, the one between OT and NT. Most of us can't see the bigger picture because frankly none of us are here long enough to see it. I don't either, but that's where faith necessarily enters in. I don't know if something that happens every day will happen today, but faith based on experience tells me it probably will.

does anyone really need to ask why?

(V): How old is Harold? He obviously intends on keeping this up until his own time is up, so I'm wondering how many more of these end of the world predictions we can expect to see from him. Last Sunday the pastor at my church said he went looking for his wife but couldn't find her anywhere.. uh oh! He was kidding of course. Even Jesus said he didn't know exactly when it (the rapture) was going to happen, and even then it won't be the end of world.

Maybe Trump and Obama should switch places. Obama can host Celebrity Apprentice and we can ask "What did Trump know, and when did he know it?"