Artful Dodger: []_ [[]] []_

"Nature's Most Irritating Mistake". So, it's nature's fault is it? Well, at least it's not Bush's fault so I guess I can live with that. But seeing as how I don't believe in evolution, then why would a loving and caring God create them? LOL

( forgive me Lord, I couldn't resist the temptation )

Artful Dodger: [ And also they are under the mistaken notion that I'm one of a kind! ]

Oh pshaw! In todays relativistic world who's to say that two guys cannot be one of a kind?

hmmmm... that sounded like something you would say. Sounds like something I would say too.


hmmmmmm....

Artful Dodger: [ I used the word "ignorant" freely. But only as a descriptor. ]

Oh, well, that's different. Using ignorant as a descriptor is always an appropriate utilization of that word... or could be, if I knew what a descriptor was.

Have you heard of Amos and Ig? Of course not, because I just now made them up... they are inventions of my mind, and only (V) can tell you that it sounds almost exactly like something he's heard before.

Anywho, Amos was always telling Ig that he didn't know what he was talking about, and then Ig would shoot back that Amos was a spiteful no-nothing [epletive] polecat. Fact is, neither Ig nor Amos knew what he was talking about.

Artful Dodger: [ You shouldn't answer my questions ]

oops, I forgot to switch over to your identity. Sorry about that... ??



Hey, wait a sec, hold the phone... why am I appologizing to myself?

MissDelish: [ What is Pharicidic? ]

Pharisee. He was a religious zealot.

Artful Dodger: [ They speak fluent insult. ]

They also speak fluent double speak. When they say ignorant they want us to believe it's meant as a point in fact. But when we say it they believe it's meant as an insult.

By the way, I wasn't the first to cast stones. I never call anyone ignorant unless that word is first directed toward me. So the complaint is less than worthless... it is hypocritical for anyone to complain that someone is tossing the very same word they use back to them.

(V): [ I do when you CAN'T REMEMBER THE DETAILS. ]

You need a detailed (all encompassing) description (explanation) of what a lame (limping) duck (quack) presidency means (entails) ? (question mark)

When someone has been re-elected (for a second term [four years] as president [executive leader] ), it means they can't (are not allowed to) run (campaign) for president (executive leader) again (repeating previous action) after the next (following) 4 (1, 2, 3, 4) more (in addition to the previous) years has expired (croaked) . (period, end of sentence)

(V): [Iamon lyme: So that's where the 'knickers in twist' troll got to!! Sorry.. someone tried to eradicate the Hogs Father... caused chaos ]



~*~ $ ~~o.o~~ FIC ~ TION ~ AL ~~o.o~~ $ ~*~

Artful Dodger: Master maze builder my smelly #@%!! Who would be stupid enough to follow a cost of wedding path? (millions are not trillions)

Artful Dodger: (V) wrote... [ Stop trying to use lame economics and selective history!! ]

Yeah AD!! Do you have any proof from scholars historians or archaeologists that can confirm your theory of what took place in the distant past? Can you prove Bill Clinton actually existed... Or how about the past 4 years? The story of Obama the Unknowable is so bizarre and full of impossible scenarios that it couldn't have possibly happened...



...please tell me it didn't happen. I don't WANT for it to have happened. Tell me a NICE bed time story, one that won't get my knickers all in twist.

Iamon lyme: ~ coffee... need drink more coffee ~ reboot brain in 4, 3, 2, 1, ...

I meant to say [ I've also looked at what some former atheists who set out to... ]

...and [ Time travel is not something I can help you with.. ]

Übergeek 바둑이: [ But I WANT to know. ]

So did I, that's why I did not limit my search by refusing to look at what Christian (or impartial) scholars historians and archaeologists had to show. I've also looked at what some former atheists who set to disprove Biblical claims have said.

I don't know why you are unable to access the same information I had found, but I suspect nothing short of a functional time machine can satisfy your thirst for knowledge. Time travel is not something I can not help you with... so my guess is you are happily out of luck finding any proof that may contradict your claim.

Artful Dodger: Romney's biggest problem right now is the press. If the press took a neutral approach to reporting, instead of covering for Obama while attacking Romney, then I think most Americans wouldn't have a problem seeing Romney as the better choice. The press does have the power to make or break a candidate, especially when polling indicates the race is close.

Actually, polling is another one of those tools used by some in the press to give misleading impressions. I heard of a recent poll giving Obama a slight edge, but then learned Democrats were being over polled by as much as 10%. If Republicans and Democrats were equally represented, that slight edge would disapear... just one more piece of evidence that the press seems to think its their job is to convince the voters who they should vote for. If I'm remembering correctly I believe the press has been called the fourth estate, because they have taken on the role of "king maker".

Marshmud: Just because Romney isn't another Reagan doesn't mean he can't start to turn things around. And Art is correct when he says anyone would be better than Obama. If Obama is re-elected (it could happen) my hope would be that he spends all of his time playing golf and flying off to one place or another, and if not that then just sitting in the Oval office tossing crumpled up pieces of paper into the waste paper basket or chatting with Oprah or playing with his kids... anyway, you get the picture.

I would like for things to rapidly turn around, but I know that won't happen with any next new leader. The problems we have are too big for anything resembling a quick fix, but frankly I think the worst we could expect from Romney is that he could stop the bleeding... right now that's good enough for me. Stop the bleeding, and let the country start to recover.

Bwild: Uber said he didn't want to read any books by Christian scholars. If he includes truly impartial scholars along with them, then I'm not surprised he has found no evidence to support what is written about people and events chronicled in the Bible.

I'm not telling you what sources you should or shouldn't look at, but relying on information from people who have already made up their minds is what it is. It is selective ignorance... selectively ignoring anything that contradicts a predermined conclusion.

mckinley: [ I've hung out with riff raff. Doesn't mean I did what they did ;) They are more interesting. ]

I've worked around people who make riff raff look very appealing. Some of them were fresh out of prison and acted like they couldn't wait to go back... apparently doing what it takes to maintain their freedom was too much to ask of them.

There are enough riff raff here for you to be entertained, and it's definitely safer hanging out with them here.

Vikings: This is actually very easy to explain. There are two Barack Obamas, one is good and the other is evil. They are identical twins, born at the same time and given the same name. One was born in Hawaii and other in Kenya (don't ask me how that happened, I don't know)

You're right about it being the qoute of the century... I didn't have a clue as to who said that until I came to the end of the quote. Seeing Barack Obamas name was like seeing the punchline to a joke.

Bwild: [ so please...just 1 FACT that Proves Jesus of Nazareth truley existed. I would like to see it,because I've spent many years off and on..(one whole year exclusively) trying to find just ONE fact. ]

If you've put in that much time and effort and found nothing then for you the issue should be settled, shouldn't it? I think it's interesting that critics can make broad sweeping statements with nothing to back it up, but then insist I do the research and collect the information they are unable to find.

I asked Uber not to insult my intelligence by asking me where evidence can be found, because he has the same access to information as I do. He asked anyway, and so have you. As for your comments on hypocrisy and asking not to be belittled, do you think I don't know what you meant by "Bible thumpers"?

Artful Dodger: LOL Yeah, no kidding! Someone really did a bang up job of getting the funding (tax dollars?) for building radio dishes and installing monitoring equipment and paying salaries to people to monitor the monitoring equipment and etc etc and computer experts and etc etc and Joe the janitor/handyman/toilet unplugger/ window washer and etc etc... Hey, come on, it takes money to run ANY kind of operation!

Where was I? Oh yeah, and all of this for the sake of maybe picking up intelligently designed (what, intelligent design?) signals from an alien race some scientists are hoping exists. So you see, even hope costs money. You didn't really think all that hope and change crap was going to save you any money, did you? Foolish peons! Money doesn't just grow on trees ya know.

If we want to find those aliens, we had better darn well be ready to spend the money for it. We can't assume the aliens will come to us... who do we think we are, anyway? If we are going to find the aliens, any aliens, even the stupid and technologically primitive ones, then we might have to be the ones who go looking for them.

So as you can see, this has been money well spent.

Artful Dodger: [ read this book then make your points... ]

There's load of evidence verifying Old Testament people and events as well. Documentation in the form of clay tablets and cylinders recording the local history of peoples and events count as documentation, as well as corroborating documentation (verification) found in nearby cultures and localities. Evidence of cities previously thought nonexistent have been unearthed within the last few years... more and more evidence in various forms are unearthed as time goes on.

It's been convenient to say in the absence of any evidence that something didn't happen or a place didn't exist, until that place or some recorded history is found. And then after evidence is found, ignoring it is what it is... willful ignorance.

By the way, the word "ignorant" is another one of those magic words liberals love to toss out... it's intended to have the same effect as words like "birther" or "conspiracy nut". Personally, I like the term "double standard"... that pretty much says it all.

I've been through a debating cycle at least twice within that last 10 years for this particular topic, and for evolution as well. Both cycles lasted for months, during which time I did a lot of research and accumulated loads of information. I don't have that information at my fingertips now, and I certainly don't have the time or interest (or desire) to repeat another cycle. Life is too short to spend trying to convince someone of something they don't want to know.

Talking straight politics is depressing. I'll come back after the heat dies down and people here start getting goofy again. I give you know who about 1/2 day to give me a reason to jump back in... shouldn't take much longer than that.

(Go ahead, make my day!)

Artful Dodger: Right now I'm "effectively" retired, but I prefer to say that I'm unemployed. Depending on the outcome of the presidential election, I'll know whether or not to call myself retired or unemployed.

I think the same is true with other people. Some doctors have already retired sooner than they had planned, thanks to the added headaches of Obamacare... and some people who were thinking of going into medicine are having second thoughts. Remember reading about the so called "brain drain" during the middle of the last century? Brains were "draining" out of Europe and finding their way to the US. We may be facing our own brain drain soon... either going overseas, or essentially being redirected and absorbed (in other words, effectively lost) in our own economy.

Artful Dodger: I've heard the equivalent of $5 US per gallon is the norm in Europe. And our unemployment norm appears to be approaching or has already reached Europe's normal (average) percentage. Depending on how things go in the next few years, unemployment here may hover at 8 to 11 percent, if we can hold it there... I don't think it will be coming down anytime soon. However, that currently estimated 8 to 11 percent may just be wishful thinking... it could be higher than that.

Artful Dodger: [ <---ok now I'm ready ]

On second thought imitating (V) would be exhausting. Building mazes with false and misleading pathways is not something that comes naturally for me. And boozing it up doesn't work for me either... I would be the icon who is always falling down.

No, in order to pull off a good imitation of how he talks would require even more coffee than I'm accustomed to drinking, along with enough Nyquil to knock out a horse for several hours. I think using a master maze builder template is the best way to go... on the other hand, intentionally whiplashing our brains from one side to the other could cause permanent damage.

So I think V may have a point... we must conceed a point to the undisputed pettifogery champion.

Artful Dodger: [ PS....stop making sense. You're scaring me. ]

I have a deliciously delightful idea... let's both start talking like (V)

Artful Dodger: [ What???? Seriously???? Crap. There goes my day. PS....stop making sense. You're scaring me. ]

Huh? What? Are you implying that up until now I haven't been making sense?

Oh crap, your'e right again! My identity is supposed to be wild and impulsive, and yours the sensible one. However, as I am only a figment of your imagination I need not take any responsibility for anything I say, because anything I say is on you. Or Bush, take your pick.

PS, are you sure the conspiracy nuts are still at it? I don't want to keep this up if everyone has figured out I'm actually just me.

mckinley: LOL Well, anyone who knows anything about Christianity can tell you (or the bank teller) that Christians aren't perfect.

If we were perfect we wouldn't need to be forgiven for anything. And Christ himself had a clever reply to his critics when they accused him of socializing with sinners. He said he came to save sinners, not the righteous... because the righteous don't need saving. Not only was that logical, but it had to sting the consciences of his critics... because even his critics knew they were not blameless and without sin.

I wouldn't worry over what the bank teller thought about it. For all you know the teller doesn't even know you, but if he/she does know you and condemns you for not being perfect, then he/she knows nothing about your faith.

Group Think Microchip technology is just around the corner!

(another utopian wetdream?)

Übergeek 바둑이: [ One thing is certain, Mohammad was a historical figure whose existence can be proven. ]

So?

[ All of the main characters of the Old Testament have no historicity to them. In other words, nobody can prove their existence beyond what is stated in the Old Testament. The same is true of Jesus. There is no proof of Jesus' existence outside the New Testament, and the Gospels date to about 75 to 120 AD depending on what scholars intepret as the original documents and oral tradition that they were based upon. ]

LOL (selective ignorance?) There is an abundance of historical documentation to prove otherwise. And please don't insult my intelligence by asking where... you have the same access to information as I do.

Übergeek 바둑이: [ Of course he is referring to Islam. No offense but denying that Islam is an Abrahamic religion is rather ignorant. ]

No offense taken. I've been called worse... but I'm not familiar with the term "Abrahamic religion". Abraham was an individual who had a relationship with God, which to my knowledge (or in my ignorance) was never characterized as Judiasm or Christianity or Islamic... because none of those religions yet existed.

The connection between Arabs and Jews is genetic. Abraham was the literal father of both. There is no genetic connection between Abraham and Islam, other than the fact that it was conceived and embraced by a distant offspring of Ishmael. Islam is a religion conceived by a dessert pirate (not my opinion, historical fact) who started off wanting to be accepted by the Jews, was rejected, and as they say the rest is history.

Artful Dodger: [ Maybe I'll takes a stab at the question just the same: "What is forbidden in all 3 Abraham based religions" ]

Is he saying there is only one common forbidden among the three?

The other puzzling thing is he talks about the Old Testament and New Testament as though they have nothing to do with one another... as though the two parts of the Bible have nothing to do with one another. Even orthodox Jews who do not recognise Yeshua as their messiah know the two are connected, even if they do not believe the New Testament to have any validity. But (V) talks about it as though they are two entirely different religions. I can't assume the third Abrahamic religion he refers to is Islam, because there is no connection between Abraham and that religion except through the son of the woman who was not his wife. But it probably is the religion he is refering to.



As the good book says... forever learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

(V): [ Right, they were not. It is not consistent with Christ's teachings... yet an eye for an eye is there in the Bible. Yes, I know it could be said that it is a phrase in the OT, and Christ is of the NT. ]

Not just a phrase, but as AD pointed out it was a way for people to deal with people who would harm other people. Disincentives for commiting crime does work... criminals are immoral, not stupid. Just like anyone else, if they feel it's not worth the effort then chances are they won't do it.

The New testament marks the beginning of the New covenent. Until Christ came along, God delt with the people as the people changed. It started with one simple rule, then the rules progressively became more complicated as the people became more unruly.

[ Yet the OT is part and is relied on to 'authorise' certain NT matters.. such as the coming of a Messiah, much regarding being 'gay' and the big argument over evolution. All gone with no OT. Which contains the oral history of the Jewish people, written down. Including their wars, some notable geographic events and massacres done by the Jews. .. The same God that Christ is of ordered, or did these massacres according to the OT. That cannot be denied as written.. debatable if it was actually 'God'. It might just have been their justification for it all. ]

Spoken like a true atheist. On other occasions you've spoken of God as an invention of man, to control people or simply make them behave themselves. Either you believe in some other sentient being with the power of a god, or you don't believe in any god or gods. You still haven't explained or demonstrated how it is you are not an atheist... nothing you have said indicates a belief in anything resembling a god or gods. If it's a secret you don't want to share, that's fine with me. I'll accept your belief in The Unknown and Unproclaimed God as proof of your not being an atheist. I'll assume you are not lying, but that you just want to keep your undefined deity a secret.

Your secret is safe with me. shhhhhhhhh.....

Artful Dodger: And... and what if the him and/or her person on the camel is NOT the owner of said preganat camel regardless of whether the person is pregnant or not? Huh? Yeah! What then?

Awww crap, now I'm starting to sound like (V)!

Is that what happened to him? I mean, was he okay until he started talking at this board?

Artful Dodger: GAzooKs, you're right! Double jeopardy... double the trouble for the unwary foot traveler.

But wait, what if the pregnant driver was texting or distracted by talking on a cell phone?! Legally speaking, would it still be considered Bush's fault by left leaning liberals and the mainstreaming media and Oprah and pregnant camels? Does Obama intend to avoid taking responsibilty for this as well?

Artful Dodger: Awww crap!

I think I pulled a tendon (and/or ligament) in my brain.

Artful Dodger: Oh, well, that's a horse of a different color.

If the camel is pregnant then the charges are modified, because obviously the mother to be is having hormonal issues and cannot be held responsible for her actions, so in the case of no rider and/or non ownership the victim of said accident is fartfully out of luck.

However, in the case of a driver of a pregnant camel being directed by driver is said to be responsible for operating not only one, but two camels at the time of accident. So the victim has the choice of running over the driver with one camel of equal weight to camel pregnant with baby camel or two camels whose combined weight equals but shall exceed total weight of pregnant camel plus rider plus any and all other items having weight and are therefore subject to the laws of gravity.

Artful Dodger: [ (V): ??? ]

I'll interpret for you: If you were legally crossing or traveling upon a dirt path and a camel bearing a rider ran over you, you had the right to run over the passenger of said camel utilizing a camel of similiar size and weight to the camel the aforementioned passenger was in control of at the time of the accident.

Accidents involving camels not carrying riders are exempt from the eye for an eye statute but require restitution from owner of said camel. Camels whose ownership cannot be established or proven must be given to victim of accident to be property of victim, at which time aforementioned said camel of questionable ownership status must relinquish all rights and privileges afforded without exception to all and any camels not previously bound by terms of ownership and/or contract.

Artful Dodger: [ I speak flatulance! ]

Okay, but do you speak fluid flatulence? No no, I meant fluent flatulence!

I can fart in eleven different languages.

[ Not sure about Iamon lyme ]

I can flatulate with the best of them. Proving it is another matter.

Artful Dodger: [ Stop it! Now you're sounding like me again ]

I'm done with that. But you reminded me of something... I've been toying with the idea of intentionally sounding like you, but then I'd have to wait until you tell me if the conspiracy nuts, er, I mean theorists, are at it again. I still haven't seen much evidence of that at this board, mostly some vague references that could as easily mean something else. Oh well, I'll take what I can get.

heh heh heh *fart* heh heh heh heh... *belch*

Bwild: [ the 10 commandments are a tough act to follow,imo. ]

Not just your opinion. It's also the opinion of most teachers and ministers and Bible scholars. And they would go a step further to say that it isn't just a tough act to follow, but impossible. No one can reach adulthood or the age of accountability without breaking the 10 commandments.

[ bible thumping hypocrits are everywhere. ]

So? Hypocrites can be found anywhere and everywhere, including critics of Christianity. Did you read my messages, or are you only skimming through them to find grist for your mill? There are hypocrites who thump on bible thumpers, so what exactly is your point? If I seem perturbed it may be because you've managed to ignore most of what I've said and are starting over again.

Seriously, if you are only commited to thumping on bible thumpers, then there is nothing else for me to say.

No one could pay me enough to be a diplomat to, or even simply visit, a predominantly Islamic country. First of all I don't like to travel... if you offered me an all expense trip around the world, I might try talking you into giving me something else, but I wouldn't take the free trip. There are places in the US I wouldn't want to visit either. But I know that I would be safer anyplace in the US than in a country where I might find myself being persuaded to say a few recorded words before getting my head sliced off.

I don't have full blown aspergers, didn't even know I had it until a few years ago because it's barely detectable. That's part of the reason for my not wanting to go anywhere else. I have a hard enough time dealing with familiar surroundings, without finding myself in some hell hole with murderous thugs hungry to get get their hands on an American... and apparently any American will do.

Anyway, today I started to write a song in my head to illustrate this aversion I have to traveling... it's to the tune of "Fly Me to the Moon".


Do not fly me to the moon
I do not want to go up there
All there is are rocks and dust
No palm trees and no air

And that is allllllllll
I want to sayyyyyy
There is no more
so go away....






No, not you! You can stay.

Bwild: It's all very simple. And you can believe it or not believe it... and believe it or not, not believing IS one of the options.

The old testament is consistent with the new testament because both talk about the same God. You are given a choice of which two entities you can serve. If you lie you serve the liar, if you deceive or are willfully misled by deceit then you serve the deceiver, and if you live to only serve yourself then you serve the entity that only serves himself. And like I said, you can choose to not believe in any of this.

What other religion gives anyone this kind of freedom to believe or not believe? Certainly not the Islamic religion. I think after more than 10 years of looking at it we have become more than well informed on their beliefs, intentions, and practices.

Bwild: [ but...since we're talkin religion...not many "true" Christians out there. ]

How can you possibly know that? Even if you don't believe in God, then by definition alone it can only be true that God knows how many true Christians there are. Even if you polled everyone in the world, and they all gave honest answers, you still wouldn't know. Who is qualified to judge all of the hearts and minds and actions of everyone?

Not everyone who calls themselves Christian are saved for Him, and not everyone who do not call themselves Christian are not saved. It's all explained in a book I think you may have heard of...

It's amazing that there are critics of the Bible, who have read it all the way through, and yet they still don't know what the Bible teaches. This isn't hypocrisy, but I can't at the moment think of what to call this. Willful ignorance?

And it doesn't matter if the source for any information on numbers is pro or con, no one but God can know this.

Bwild: Hypocrisy is not limited to religion. Christianity points out that hypocrisy is wrong, but that doesn't mean you won't find hypocrites who call themselves Christians. And it certainly doesn't mean you can't find hypocrites anywhere else. Hypocrisy one of those weird contradictory behaviors that seem to afflict almost everyone.

The only time I can remember Jesus calling someone a hypocrit was when he told the religious leaders of his day that they were putting burdons on the people they themselves will not carry...
Sound familiar? When I think of what liberal politicians want from us, the definition Jesus gave of a hypocrit always seems to come to mind.

Artful Dodger: [ So you think this story is representative of the majority of Christian churches across America? ]

I think in V's mind it's either utopia or nothing. Either he doesn't understand that God is not a tyrant, and therefore will not interfer with our decisions, or he actually believes being a tyrant and enforcing what HE thinks is right is more desirable.

One of the main reasons for the rioting by Islamists is that they believe the US government actually sanctions and promotes insulting films and cartoons. Most of them live in countries where you can't make a move or say anything without the government's permission, so they literally don't understand the kind of freedom of speech allowed here in our country... they have lived so long under their own government's thumbs they can't imagine what it's like living any way else. Because of this it's only natural for them to assume that the US government is to blame... it's the only frame of reference they have to work with.

Artful Dodger: [ BTW, that film has been on YouTube for months. ]

I was curious about the timing, when the clip came out in relation to when the violence erupted. It's clear from everything I've heard and read that whoever put this out there fully intended to start something.

If you know a particular group of people will react like mad dogs if you taunt them, then there is no excuse for inciting them. Taunting Christians doesn't result in this kind of reaction, but I have to wonder if self disicpline as taught by the Bible is something the Islamic religion teaches. When the Bible says the meek will inherit the earth, it's not saying passive people will be in charge... that's not what meek means. It means exercising the kind of self disicpline most good parents want to see their children develop.

I think the person (or people) who funded and put that clip on youtube fully intended for it to have the sort of reaction that has now erupted. I read on this board someone saying $5 mil went into making it. Is that right? If so that tells me someone went to the trouble and expense of trying to set off a 'mad dog' reaction, fully knowing and intending for this to happen.

Artful Dodger: [ And the media is covering fer him ]

I sometimes wonder what is going on with the media. With the loss of reader and viewership (which in the real world means loss of revenue) you would think they might want to get back to basic principles of journalism... because simply telling the truth actually sells papers and draws in viewers (and listeners).

Whether they like what the news is telling them or not, some people actually want to know what is happening. Even people who prefer to hear what they want to hear are better served knowing.

Politicians don't kid themselves about what is true or not, even if some of them aren't telling us the truth. But there's no reason for someone like me to not want to know... the only thing I can do with a fantasy is to daydream. Fantasies have no other practical purpose.

Artful Dodger: [ Obama's Connecticut Social Security Number ]

This is one of the funniest duck cover and hide jobs I've ever seen... correction, it IS the funniest. And not just the social security number, I mean all of it. Like the girl he once dated that didn't exist. He needed a birth certificate (oops, clerical error) to get a social security number (oops, another clerical error). Reality just doesn't seem to like Mr Obama, because facts keep popping up to rear their ugly heads. Oh, and some women he dated are actually all one woman... or is it the other way around? (uh, um, eh, clerical error?). This guy has a numbers and facts problem. Seriously, how many "clerical" errors is a person allowed to claim in one lifetime? LOL

It's like all three of the stooges are wrapped up into and represented by one guy. It's amazing to see how this is unfolding.

Obama will have nowhere to hide when his presidency is over, but I'll bet he won't have to face any significant consequences. Clinton has already proven how convenient being the president can be... as Mel Brooks said in one of his movies, "It's good to be the king."

Nooooooooo kidding!?

Artful Dodger: Second law of thermal underware? What's the first law?

No, wait... never mind. If it doesn't itch that's all I need to know.

(V): [ BIG ONES!! ]

Women, dresses, or pictures?