anastasia: we take and never give back

Thats a pretty harsh assessment.... doesn't planting a new tree count towards "giving back"?

anastasia: Still looks pretty nice from where I sit...

"GERRY": You have something against pigs?

The Usurper: Do you happen to also believe in fairies???? Because you seem to believe the tales they tell

The Usurper: And my difference with conservatives is the same: they see the evil of Clinton, but not Bush, etc.


Problem with this statement, is it isnt accurate... the part about liberals and Bush is true, all liberals could talk about is how evil Bush was, but never anything on a substantive basis.....

But as far as conservatives and Clinton, aside from the part where he lied about an affair with an intern, conservatives simply disagreed with his policies and ideas, it was never about "he is evil and bad blah blah blah..."

Same for Bam.... we simply disagree with his and other liberals "collective" agenda, he is not stupid or evil, he is just misguided and wrong.

The Usurper: One word on why the buildings had to come down: "Shock and Awe"


Really??? Flying a plane or two into the WTC isnt enough shock and awe?? They had to also take the risk of implanting explosives???? Doesnt make any sense to me, had those buildings just burned to the ground, would have been enough, no need to blow them up on top of it all


Also, why "pretend" that a plane hit the pentagon, and instead fly a missile into it? and then hope that nobody notices when you make the plane just disappear?

and you never answered about the cell phone calls from the plane, all fake all part of the big master plan, to fool us all?

Artful Dodger: Sheeple.... (and no Tuesday its not anything to do with females)

Artful Dodger: GW is not the only one rolling over in his grave.... millions of our vets are too

Hey, I have a plan..... we dont like dealing with the idiots in Iran.... lets send a nuke into the heartland of the US, kill millions of people, then show some fake evidence that iran did it!!! Yeah, yeah, thats the ticket.... then we can blow the living crap out of Iran, and have the blessing of the whole world behind us, maybe even get someone else to do it for us! Brilliant!!

Czuch: and my point is that the US government did not have to use such an elaborate scheme to promote the fear and anger they needed to help implement more of their imperialistic urges...

really, just blow up one WTC, and blame some terror group from the middle east, that would have accomplished the same results, without near the risk of being caught at it as what they supposedly got away with

(V): No, your original point was that it was not needed except to promote more fear and terror....but not really necessary to win a war.

(V): Maybe it wasn't Bush

Well according to Usurper, it was not just Bush but most of the government and now including Obama, and how many more that are backing it and not one leak yet?

Its like the WMD... we know saddam had them because we saw he used them before.....

We saw 2 planes fly into the WTC buildings, but instead of flying a third one into the pentagon, they used a missile instead, and just used the third hijacked plane as a rouse, to throw us off their tracks, and then mysteriously ditched it in the ocean somewhere! Brilliant!

Then they used the fourth plane as a rouse to make us think they were also going to hit the white house, but they didnt want to ruin that building, like the pentagon, it was too valuable to ruin, so they faked a crash into Penn. and they even had people on the plane make phone calls to their loved ones saying how they were going to try to take over the plane, again another brilliant rouse thought up by Bush to make it seem even more realistic! Brilliant!

(V): It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed.


Okay, I see your point a bit more clearly now... but it still isnt relevant.

I am asking how, demolishing the WTC buildings with explosives after flying planes into them, put any more terror into the people of the US than simply flying the planes into them and not doing the demolition???



If the point of this day was for our government to create fear for the purpose of making it easier and more acceptable for them to perpetrate some other, more horrific actions in the name of imperialism, why take the extra risk of planting demolitions and exploding these buildings on top of flying planes into them??? For that matter, wouldnt it have been easier to just explode the buildings, without having to fly planes into them first? It wouldnt have been too hard to explain that as terrorism and get just the same results?

Bush had to be a genius to mastermind this whole plot, with the elaborate details of having these guys come here and take flight training classes, just as a distraction to the truth, and having Muslims enter the airport and leave "clues" behind in their cars etc ... pure genius... if nothing else, how you can call Bush a dolt and at the same time give him credit for such an act?

I think a significant percentage of the population has lost the faith. Why else would they have voted for Obama and the collectivists? 52% of the voters have declared they are not capable of achieving success on their own. 52% have offered up their freedom for the "wealth" of government handouts. 52% have declared their desire to confiscate the money of those that work and strive to better themselves.

I would say to these people, you do not deserve your freedom. You have traded freedom for the illusion of security. I would say other things to you, but Samuel Adams said it much better over 200 years ago:
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and my posterity forget that you were our countrymen." Samuel Adams

To the rest of us, including myself, I am not sure we deserve freedom either. The next few years will tell. Will we stand and fight the collectivists, or will we just allow ourselves to be swallowed up as the last remnants of a once great idea?

I don't know about you, but I think the 48% have a lot of fight left in us!

(V): Just an opinion though, but if I was Pres at the time I would have sent enough troops and resources to implement a take and hold policy in Afghanistan.



No, you wouldnt have, because you would have been up to your neck in a huge conspiracy and cover up, and getting bin laden would have been the last thing you wanted to do

(V): It's like when the USA bombed Dresden (sp) with fire bombs, it was not necessary but they did it.



....ummmm..... its not like that at all....

The Usurper: I personally think it's a slam dunk.


You could have been a big help on the OJ jury....

The Usurper: Proof, as ever, is in the eye of the beholder. Some will be persuaded, others not. But even if evidence merely raises doubts, that is a good start because it leads people to question things more critically. That in itself is a closer step towards discovering & understanding truth, i.e., reality, or how things are, or what really happened.


Cant the same be said for the most commonly held truth of the events as well?

The Usurper: resulting fire weren't enough in themselves to bring the buildings down


But why did they have to come down at all??? It seems like a lot of extra work and risk to plant demolitions... wouldnt flying two plane loads of people into the buildings serve the purpose you are talking about just fine like that?

okay, so... they got these arabs to commit suicide to help the US government start a war in the middle east?

They faked a few planes being hijacked, put a missile in the pentagon , demolished 3 buildings with explosives after flying planes into two of them (btw why did they have to actually demolish the buildings with explosives after they flew planes into them?) anyway, the fbi the cia the president congress and others including obama know all about this, but because its for some greater world domination plan, everyone in the loop is keeping it hush hush??? Sound about right?

The Usurper: Very interesting indeed, great speculation, but far from proving any reality.... now you have to show me the evidence of where the real plane went to???

anastasia: I know you wouldnt be so silent about it if Bush was president right now

(V): I will move to the UK and let you take care of me

The Usurper: So you must believe then, that Bams plans are working according to plan, since wall st cronies are losing billions every day? If wall st did good under Bush, and evryone hated him, then under Bam, wall st should be doing bad, a good sign that socialism is working?

The Usurper: So you must believe then, that Bams plans are working according to plan, since wall st cronies are losing billions every day? If wall st did good under Bush, and evryone hated him, then under Bam, wall st should be doing bad, a good sign that socialism is working?

The Usurper: why dont you first explain to us what a wall st cronie is please?

Artful Dodger: Democrats again.

They beg you to be irresponsible and stupid... then they can give you a hand out from someone who wasnt irresponsible and stupid, and then you will vote for them because they helped you, but they dont tell any one that they were only able to help you because there are actually some people in this world who are responsible, and without these responsible people there would be no money to help you be irresponsible, unless your name is Usurper, and he would tell you that all we have to do if nobody is responsible and productive, is to print more money, so dont worry we can still give you money for being irresposible and stupid anyway.... so dont worry, Bam is on your side

Artful Dodger: 200 thousand dollars for tattoo removal?

What??? Are you an idiot??? Cant you see that money spent on tattoo removal will only help the economy???

anastasia: I dont think any of them are making up for it right now..... maybe walmart, gold was good for awhile, it hit an all time high though and has backed off, but unless you have been short selling.... you are losing the new shirt you bought today

anastasia: looking good now huh?

anastasia: It seems like a buyers market, and normally after a good correction I would agree with you.... but we had a good correction, then an election and now a new plan for the future... like I said, the market is way ahead of the curve, if the pros thought this was a good plan for stocks, the market would be going up already... remember, buy on the rumor, sell on the news... by the time you figure out the economy is doing well, the pros are already selling it off..... right now, its more like sell on the rumor and buy on the news maybe?

Tuesday: Coffee can is a good idea...

anastasia: Yeah, such a buyers market that you are dumping all your money in it???

Tuesday: you have a lot to learn about the stock market.... let me explain one thing... the stock market prices into the future... have you ever heard the term buy on the rumor, sell on the news?

Basically that means that the stock market has already factored in the past and what happens today on the stock market is a reflection of their pridiction of the future.

Everything that has to do with housing and banks etc, has already been factored into the stock market long ago, and may or may not have to do with Bush, but what is happening right now, is that the stock market is factoring in what they think is the future, and it isnt promising... since Bam the past month has been the second worse for the stocks since the great depression!

Believe me, its not partisan to say it...... if the stock market liked Bams plans for this country, if they thought it would be a good thing over all for stocks, then the market would be souring right now... remember buy on the rumor and sell on the news... the rumor right now is not good, and if it was, by the time the average American figured it out, you would have already missed the boat, so to speak.

anastasia: well, you must be part of the top 10% of income earners then...

Tuesday: There are plenty of professional investors on wall st. who make a living betting on the future... Im just glad i didnt bet my last dollar on his recovery plan... if you have such faith, and anyone who does, should be putting their money where their mouth is, but until you tell me you are putting your savings into the stock market, I dont believe you really have any more belief in the chosen one as I do?

Tuesday: You two will let me know when you get a check from Bam to help you stimulate, okay?

anastasia: he's trying to clean up crap left by former presidents


seems to be working... NOT!!!

Study after study over the past several decades has shown how countries that spend more produce less, while nations that tax less produce more. Obama is doing it wrong on both counts.

Czuch: Also, a home is not only a place to live, and for only a bit more than renting, but it also increases in value over time, not to mention, what bank is going to lend you 200k to put into the stock market or anything else for that matter? Its the best investment that a loan can buy!

Looks like Bams plan to socialize us and to end the free market capitalism which has gotten us from newbie country to world superpower in a couple hundred years, is working and is well on its way!

I hope you liberals were smart enough to pull all your money out of the stock market before you endorsed such a plan???? Because it is quite obvious that socialism and the stock market are like oil and water.....

Bernice: Read closer... i said except for mortgages, those for most people, are the only credit they should use.

Paying cash for a new home would take most people so long to save for they would never have a new home, one reason is that you have to pay rent as well as try to save for a place to live, which makes no sense, when you can just have no rent payment and pay for a home mortgage. But most other things dont work quite the same way.

(V): No more 100% mortgages,

I have two 100% mortgages.... whats wrong with them?

Tuesday: and you would think if a person can make payments they can save money every month....there is something human about that that doesn't work lol


Thats my point, the best advice is to save the money and then make the purchase, not make it on credit.

One problem is that people end up buying more than they need or can afford when credit is employed.

Maybe it is a bit different with business.... but my advice is if you cant pay cash fro it, you cant afford it or it is more than you really need.

Tuesday: #5 is the consumer...racking up debt....


What makes me wonder about this one.... we say it was one of the main problems, but I hear Bam saying that one of the main ways we are going to recover is to get debt flowing again????

Every financial advice show I see or hear will tell you, as an individual it is best to pay only in cash, the only debt "allowed" is for your house, even a car should be paid for with saved cash!

Now the big stimulus is to get lenders lending and debtors debiting again??? I am truly concerned about this democratic 'new deal'....

The Usurper: Be an ostrich if you prefer.

I dont prefer.... but according to you 99% of the world has their heads in the sand....

The Usurper: copy-&-paste material from some rightwing think tank that, were it true,


Not true???? I gave you three different sources, all with very similar conclusions.... its hard science and math, this is not some conjecture IE your conspiracy.... you can believe all that but you arent able to believe what percentage of people pay what percentage of taxes???

The overwhelming majority of federal income taxes are paid by the very highest income earners. The top 1% of income earners pay about 32% of all income taxes. The top 5% pays 51.4%. The top 10% of high income earners, pay 63.5%. The top 20% of income earners pays 78% of all federal income taxes


The bottom 80% pay only 20% of the burden.

# An enormous percentage of taxes are payed by a minority of Americans:

* The Top 1% of taxpayers pay 29% of all taxes.
* The Top 5% of taxpayers pay 50% of all taxes.

# Our tax system is not so much progressive as it is confiscatory -- Frederic Bastiat called this phenomenon "legal plunder." A progressive tax is based on the premise that those with more income can afford to pay more taxes, and conversely, those with little or no income should pay no tax. However, a quick look at Graph 1A below shows that the U.S. tax system has become far beyond progressive. Fully half the taxpayers contribute almost nothing in individual income taxes.
# The Top 1% of income earners (comprising about 1 million families) earn about 15% of the total income earned by all wage earners in the United States, yet they pay almost 30% of all individual income taxes.
# Furthermore, the Top 1% are shouldering a roughly 50% higher proportion of the overall income tax burden than they did in 1977.
# The argument most oft used against tax breaks are that they benefit only the wealthy. It is clear from even a cursory look at the numbers below that the 'wealthy' will receive the majority of any income tax reduction because they pay a disproportionately huge percentage of the income taxes! To structure a tax break such that those in upper income brackets are excluded would constitute nothing more than transfer of wealth from those who have it to those who don't (i.e. legal plunder.)