I've added it to the rules.

Fencer: beautiful. thank you, Filip.

Fencer: i still think that change i suggested to the first sentence about the doubling cube would be helpful though. right now it sounds more like backgammon and its variants are the only game that can be defined as a match by using a doubling cube. statements that can be understood in either of two ways make rules confusing.

Fencer: if that doesn't seem a likely mistake, that's because you know what a doubling cube is for. believe me, if somebody reads those rules who has no clue what a doubling cube is for, they're going to come away still having no clue what a doubling cube is for.

Ok, I finally confirmed something that's been bothering me for a while. I see my dice roll and click accordingly only to find the dice have changed after I click.

This time I thought to click "back" on the browser and sure enough I had a 4-2 that had changed to a 2-1 after clicking.

Anyone else notice that?

Fencer, this is the game
http://brainking.com/en/ShowGame?g=1178279

I'm looking at it now with 4-2 as the roll, but if I try and do anything it changes to 2-1

grenv: This happens on many servers. Usually the dice you are seeing are your opponent's dice from his last roll.

grenv: It's been discussed many times before, mostly on Czech boards though. It's only a visual bug, the dice are 21. Even when I go to your game, I see 21.

alanback: it's 2-1 now. however I clicked back and could clearly see 4-2.
My opponent rolled 1-1 and that is clear all the time.

At no time had either of us rolled 4-2, yet I can still see it in an old window.

grenv: fencer explained in the bug tracker that it is something to do with the browser http://brainking.com/en/ReadBug?bgi=562

grenv: It is not recommended to use the browser's Back button on a site like this one where all pages are dynamic.

Fencer: i still think that change i suggested to the first sentence about the doubling cube (in the backgammon rules) would be helpful. right now the first sentence sounds like the doubling cube plays some part in defining a game as a match. that needs to be clarified.

you can trust me on this. i understand the subtleties of the English language a lot better than a lot of U.S. college graduates of recent years.

plaintiger: I still don't understand what should be changed and how.

Fencer: Could I suggest the following:


"A backgammon match with the doubling cube must specify the number of points a player must reach to win the match. The doubling cube value is initially set to 1 for each game in the match, and is displayed on the right edge of the board. The number of points allocated to the winner of each game depends upon the value of the doubling cube at the end of the game, and the winner of the match (which may comprise several games) is the first player to reach the initially agreed number of points. The following sections describe all of the rules in detail:"

Fencer: :) I understand how the site works, having written similar, i clicked back to see if it was my eyes playing tricks on me.

Fencer: my suggestion was very simply to replace the word "with" with the phrase "that employs" or "that uses" in the first sentence about the doubling cube. in other words, changing

"Backgammon (and its variants) is the only game which can be defined as a match with a doubling cube"

to

"Backgammon (and its variants) is the only game which can be defined as a match that employs a doubling cube."

thanks.

plaintiger: Ah, now I understand. Will be done.

would it be possible to show the match score or the points gained/lost in the message which is sent to the players inbox when a cubegame has been finished ?

is it still possible to (back)gammon someone when (s)he moved some pieces out of the board before already, and was sent back by the opponent, who then finished the game (maybe even with the player on the bar)

Hrqls: No.

Pedro Martínez: ok thanks .. so i can then best use the cube in case i am such a position :)

Hrqls:
:)

Single game (1 point) - the winner's opponent has borne off at least one piece.

Gammon (2 points) - the opponent hasn't borne off any pieces.

Backgammon (3 points) - the opponent hasn't borne off any pieces and still has some pieces either on the bar or in the winner's home area (the six pipes where the winner bears off own pieces).

Pedro Martínez: *nod* thats how i read it as well (as its written that way ;)) .. i just wondered if it had to be done all at once .. without getting back at the bar .. glad it doesnt though :)

Fencer: thank you very much, sir. i think and hope that will help make the role of the cube in a match a little clearer to newbies totally unfamiliar with it. would have helped me a couple weeks ago when i was a cube newbie (would that be a "cubie"? ).

A scenario. The cube is '2' and is in possession of my opponent. I have the guy on the bar and am bearing my pieces off at a rapid rate of knots. A backgammon or gammon is obvious. The guy resigns. How many points do I get?

bumble: my guess would be 6

(or if your opponent already beared off some pieces earlier in this game, than you get 2 points)

Say one has 2 men together in opponent's home, where men have already started being born off. What is the best practice then?

- Take one man out and see if dice for the opponent is bad enough for a forced hit, allowing one to hit back given more nice dice?
- Leave the men together, hoping for some dice for the opponent to force an open man etc.

Does any of these two scenarios have any distinct advantage, even under conditions?

Hrqls: 6 points. Obviously no opponents pieces had been borne off or a gammon would not have been "obvious".

grenv: true :)

WhiteTower: depends on the distribution of your opponent .. if he has holes in his home then he is likely to have some moves in which he cant bear off .. so you might still have a chance

it also depends if you have a nice block in your own home, if you dont have that .. then dont leave both pieces there

it also depends if its a cube game or not .. with a cube game you might want to make sure you wont be (back)gammoned

it also depends on the match score .. when you are far behind you might want to take some more risks .. although i am not sure about that one

i most often move only 1 piece out and leave the other there to be caught by my opponent

WhiteTower: There are too many variables to answer that in all cases, but in general keeping an anchor (2 on the same bar in your opponents base) means you are putting yourself at risk of being gammoned in exchange for a chance of winning, so you would do it only if losing the race.

If you're losing you would run a piece only if you were trying to save a gammon (say you were 4-0 up in a 5 point match), otherwise try to keep the anchor and build your own prime up forward.

grenv: Then let me make it a lot more simple. I never played (nor will ever play) cubed bachgammon - I'm a Greek, after all :) For me, every game is life or death - win or loss. There are no backgammons and gammons to consider. Only whether I can stop the SOB who's started taking men off while I have an anchor at their home. Should I "raise" the anchor, leaving one man, or should I leave them both, assuming at the same time I am at either position 1, 2 or 3 (4 or further isn't worth it probably) and that a nasty block is awaiting the unlucky man to be hit by me?

WhiteTower: Why would you break the block and run with one of the men?

1) Because you're not that far behind in the race and it's worth running and hoping for a tasty double to get the other guy moving too.
2) Because you've run out of timing and running a single man is necessary to prevent your home table from collapsing.
3) Because the odds of a hit and return hit are higher than the odds of catching a man by having a block.

Do you have any positions in your games that we could be specific about?

WhiteTower: Having a block on the 4 point can be very useful if you're behind. In fact a block on the 7 point can be annoying if your opponent is trying to jump over it to get home.

It all depends on how far behind in the race you are.

I didn't understand the part about being Greek.

Fencer: thanks! :)

Hrqls: LOL..I wondered what the "thanks" was for...but now I see it!! The score at the top....NICE!!

SueQ: ssssshhhh .. dont tell anyone ;)

(i blackmailed fencer to do it :))

grenv: Greek backgammon tradition eschews the cube. Given the chance they'd eschew it and spit it out.

how can i see the history of points in a match ? how can i see how many points the last game gave me ?

Hrqls: It's easy. Go to the game and count the number of times the cube doubled, unless the game ended with a dropped cube in which case ignore that one. Then check to see whether the opponent lost a single, gammon or backgammon (applauding their foolishness if they did the latter by resigning prematurely). Then do the arithmetic thing.

playBunny: *nod* but thats like work .. i am lazy :)

i am trying to find out how many points i got when my opponent resigned .. i think 3 ... but not sure how many points i already had before that .. i will go through the games though :)

Fencer:uhm ... i dont want to be too spoiled ... but ... would it be possible to also show the match type at the top of the board ?

that way it would be possible to see how close the points are to the end of the match :)

(something tells me i need another blackmailing action to ask this properly :))

Anybody knows what the record number of moves in anti-backgammon is here? I just passed the 300 moves mark in a game!

Shaffyre: come on ... dont prolong your opponents suffering ... finish him! ;)

Shaffyre: you got a little ways to go to get to this http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=451097

Vikings: http://brainking.com/cz/ArchivedGame?g=751978
I am better.

Hrqls: The number in the brackets.

Fencer: *nod* but not on top of the board ;)

i know i know .. i should find another dutch innocent to send you a question .. and then blackmail you again :)

Hrqls: On top of the board. Look again.

Fencer: where ?

Hrqls: How dare you to move the board to the page top? Wait a minute.