Oh no, Animal, I never meant to imply that pawns are the problem. The problem right now is more of a hardware issue of the server becoming overloaded. As grenv said, its just that pawns do not contribute to the solution, becuase they are non-paying members. If a large portion of players online at one time are pawns, would not that mean that the majority of resources were be used at that time by non-paying members? I think that is more of where I was thinking.

It has already been discussed there, Zucan. It usually comes back to the same thing, needing a new server! Its pretty much been talked to death. Fencer will fix the problems in time.

This almost seems like a conversation for the BrainKing.com discussion board.

could it be turned off for everybody , every one has a way of refreshing there page

Is there a way of tracking that player by player?

pawns are not the only problem, and possibly not the biggest. they are the only ones not contributing to the solution however. Having said that, if I was still a pawn I probably wouldn't join until the site performance increased.

Attrition of paying members is likely to be a problem for the future of the site I would imagine, so anything that improves performance and availability should be tried.

Here's another thought: turn off the auto refresh, or limit the lower number to 5 minutes. I suspect the number of people who leave the browser up while not actively playing is causing some unnecessary performance problems.

i am a non-paying pawn contemplating moving up in "rank".
i agree with grenv about limiting us to 100 moves a day, i dont know how much easier that'll be for Fencer as far as keeping access to the site open and free but it is a good idea.
In response to Eriisa, Are the pawns the whole problem as far as getting on to the site?

Just my 2¢

But you got to remember, the auto refresh is turned off to pawns.

I don't really want to restrict pawns, but I guess I was thinking how frustrated I get when I think that I am a paying member and cannot get on. Then when I do, I find there are 70% of non-paying members on.

My apologies to the pawns. Its nothing personal.

Note: If you limit the number of pawns who can have access to this site at one time, you will soon get pawn that once they come here and play their games - they will not leave - just keep refreshing for hours so they don't "lose their spot" :-)

It's a good idea, but I just don't think it will work!

Hmm. Not letting pawns in is not the best way of getting them to pay.
With 20 games at a time you could still, in theory, play hundreds of moves. Less likely I guess. I would change from 20 games to 100 moves (it seems to me that i play a lot, but rarely get to 100).

By the way I also prefer this site to iyt for many reasons, which is why I'm trying to think of ways that it could be accessible more often.

I was just thinking, Just how many moves a day can someone make with only 20 games? I do not really like the idea of limiting games or moves since that is what drove me away from iyt years ago when that policy first started.
I'm looking at the listing of most active users and there is only 7 people who had more than 400 moves. Of course, that does not list pawns.
If I could wave a magic wand, I think I would limit the number of pawns to access the servers at one time. At this moment there is 59 players online. 43 of those are pawns.

iyt has the banners for non members i believe ? also lots of restrictions.
i came to this site from iyt due to lack of communication with them , i was here for 1 day before paying my membership fees , this site was 100 percent better (features ect) ,that was around six months ago ,since then there have been many great things added to this site this is the best site around (when it is up and running ) , people do get annoyed with this me included , ive got nothing against pawns but i do feel they get too much for nothing .
but please dont shoot me i would love every pawn to pay for membership to make this the best site ever , but sadly alot of pawns are happy enough with what they get .
some people may agree with me some wont thats fine lol

peace to all ;~))

Coersion or negative things like banner adds are not going to get more of us pawns to join. I think Fencer is going about things the right way.

I'm checking this site out right now and getting a sense of the community. If it continues to grow on me, I'll join just like I did at IYT. It's going to take a better server to resolve the site preformance issues. I hope a nice benefactor can be found because I doubt the funds can be squeezed out of the pawns.

IYT went through the same growing pains and they made it. I bet BrainKing can do it too.. :-)

i agree but it seems a catch 22 situation at the moment

I still think the best incentive for the pawns would be a site that doesn't crash!

one thing i would like to see is for all the pawns to get a big banner at the top of every page they open up which must be scrolled past to see the game board ect this could in my opinion encourage pawns to buy membership just to get rid of the banner ,just my opinion though ;~))
(the banner needent be sponsers of any kind ,just simple messages saying benifits of a paying member ,no banners , unlimited games,tournaments ect )

i agree that move limits are not ideal, but with the server in such a bad state it may be a good temporary solution until more bandwidth is obtained.

Limited games will not be quite as effective since the pawns can still play just as quickly.

I would think that limited moves with a working server is preferable to the current situation. Also may incent some pawns to pay for membership once they see the site working better! (I understand not paying as it is performing now)

Move limits don't just hurt pawns. They hurt members too. Now players can't play games in one sitting or even a chunk of moves in a sitting. Limiting moves for pawns won't solve the problem. I say reduce pawn's games to 10 or 15.

At iyt there was a moves per day restriction for non-paying members. Perhaps something like this could make the site more reliable?

Pioneer54: yea, I've been getting the "temporarily down" page a lot today also. Just (finaly) got done playing the games which will time out in the next 24 hours - and I guess I'll go do yard work today - hopefully later today I'll be able to play some more! :-)

Today, I have gotten the "temporarily down" page about every other try!? It's getting progressively worse.

Why not put a freeze on new registrations for a while? Every day, the number of "registered users" goes up, which must keep putting higher demands on the server's hardware. But, this doesn't get BK a penny closer to a new machine, or whatever is needed. (In reality, most pawns never intend to join anyhow.)

There will always be plenty of time (in fact, an indefinite amount) to fish for new recruits when the site's operations become more sound.

Fencer: Can you add the tag [Variant "atomic"] to the PGN header of Atomic chess games? It makes the games work perfectly in the latest versions of WinBoard that happens to understand Atomic Chess rules (with the blowing up of pieces)!

Currently, I am editing the PGN files by hand and inserting the headers. It is a pain to do though.

Thanks!
Zucan

CaissasDream: I would like to implement theme tournament as well :-) It is at muy TODO list.
rod: It will be added after hardware upgrade because it means additional load for the database server. But it is a good idea anyway :-)

I agree Grenv. That would also work fine.

Pioneer: not superfluous at all. How would one more option on the Move and Go To drop down menu be cluttering? If anything on that menu is "cluttering" it would be the Move and go to Discussion Board.
Anything that limits the # of pages to be loaded, would be a good thing, in my mind. As it is now, I am constantly going back and forth between "On line opponents" and my main page, then the specific game page.
If it is something not possible, then I can certainly live with it. It is simply a feature I would like to see.

Players online changes continually. Mental or written notes are hardly practical. I would suggest some sort of indicator, similar to the asterix used to show tournament games would suffice.

This seems superfluous! Too many options are cluttering up the game pages already, and there are plenty to work with. Would it not be more practical for any given player to make a written or mental note of which opponents are currently on line?

Hey Fencer, I LOVE the new move and go to next game with this player. Thanks so much for that.

I like to make moves first against people that are on he site at the same time as me. Is there any way to add an option to be able to move and go to next game with an opponent currently online, to that drop down box? (I'm sure there would be a better way to word it)
AND/OR on the "Online Opponent" page, have an option next to the name saying "Go to my games against this player, where it is my turn" (or something like that)
Just curious!
:-D

I believe the rationale for not implementing an "auto-pass" is that a player must go on and actually make the move, whether it be a pass in backgammon or a forced move, such as in chess. It is frustrating in some situations, but why should the system make an automatic move for a player who is out to lunch? This would also require extra programming.

The problem is the Game editor requires you in Screen Chess to place all the pieces on the board. Most openings within the first five to ten moves have a pawn or a piece gone. I would love to have some Theme Tourneys.

I suggest to introduce the possibility of theme tournements in chess.
It lets us test some openings like Kingsgambit,French Opening and other special gambits.
And why not in the single games for the waiting room too? Perhaps we can use the game editor?

I just had 14 CB games and could only move in 3 of them.

BBW, you hit it on the head. They do this at GT and it seems to work well.

An additional note:

The way I would do it is if you are playing, and the opponent had only 1 move (or pass) to do - then you can then play your next move (and so on and so on) until the other player can move.

Then when the other player goes to the game, they will see a note: "Because of automatic moves, your opponent moved XX times. Would you like to go through each move or go strait to current move?"

That way for inexperianced players can go through all the moves to see what happened, and others can just skip what they know is going to happen and start playing more quickly!

would be just like an extended board-logic, okay ... ~*~

I actually meant beyond mathematical doubt. Example would be backgammon, where one player could roll 2-1 and his or her opponent could roll 6-6 for the rest of the game and would still win. In chess I wouldn't recommend this approach.

is a manner of defining.

both chess games I have lost were won beyond doubts.

nice quiz btw what happened there ... :D

I don't know anyway which game-type was targeted in particular
but I hardly could imagine it as an acceptable treating ...

an umpire would be required with highest possible own skills, for each type,
and would not be that player also a competitor for the players he has to judge ?

thin ice. ~*~

is a manner of defining.

both chess games I have lost were won beyond doubts.

nice quiz btw what happened there ... :D

I don't know anyway which game-type was targeted in particular
but I hardly could imagine it as an acceptable treating ...

an umpire would be required with highest possible own skills, for each type,
and would not be that player also a competitor for the players he has to judge ?

thin ice. ~*~

At least it could be a game option to allow automatic moves if forced. In Backgammon it could speed up the games a great deal.

Also I would like the game to end if the result is beyond doubt. While most people resign in such a position, it can be quite infuriating playing a move a day for 3 weeks just to reach an inevitable conclusion.

just my 2c

I think more people would be thankful for not havign to make all those unnecessary pass moves. And the site woudl have less load.

Doh! It already is a link. I feel dumb. ;-)

If I remember correctly, Fencer does not really like it because people would not be able to write messages to each other after each move. I think it would help out in a few different games, and I don't think it would bother many people that they can't talk after each move, but it's not my site so ...??? :-)

you just have to hit the red number and your there.

Why doesn't Fencer like it? It would really help in Reversi.

Also, maybe we coudl make the game number next to the Main Page link a link to the first game in the to move list? Woudl save another page being loaded.

The "auto move" option has been suggested a few time before, and as I understand it - Fencer does not like that option, so it is unlikely that you will see it here. (I like the option - it would save a lot of time - heck I'm in a crowded gammon game right now that I know the other person is going to have to pass for at least the next 10 moves if not more...) :-)

How about on games where u don't have a move, have the system auto go to the next persons turn?

What I would like to see is ties go 1 extra round. I've seen some tournaments on IYT go 10+ rounds with the same tie. After the 2nd tie, I think it should end that way.

Maybe for first person to get to move in Backgammon instead.

That makes sense for many of the games here. Some it's doubtful and others it makes no sense (e.g BackGammon).

at that opportunity I'd like to remind of the
suggestion to have an option of specified ratings.

i.e showing a splitted view of the
performance as player one or player two ... ~*~

How about an option on the ratings list:
"Active Players Only". The definition could be either started or finished a game of that type in the last 6 months or something like that.
I know of at least one case where the top ranked player is no longer playing.