http://www.GothicChess.org/invite.gif

http://www.GothicChess.org/declined.gif


danochicken liar 1

danochicken liar 2

I am wondering how many people here have downloaded the program.

Maybe we should have a "best win against Vortex" contest. The best game gets a free license for the program.

So, post your wins, and annotate them. Best one gets a prize (and please, no games on the very lowest settings)

My debate with Dano directly concerned Gothic Chess, where you have been?

1. He claims to be better than me after having lost 3 games.

2. He says I won't play him because he "knows" he can beat me, so I invited him to a game, which he declined.

3. He says Gothic Vortex sucks, then he said he declined playing me until I give him a free Gothic Chess license.

Get with the program!

The debate with CM1000 and Reverse is totally orthogonal to any such ongoing discussion about a worm from Germany named Danochicken.

Ah, so to deflect one's own fault, one should mention the faults of others.

Last time I checked, this was the Gothic Chess Board, not the Persecute Reversi Program Users Board.

Chessmaster 1000 is the only person here on BrainKing that has sent me games he played against Gothic Vortex where he absolutely slaughtered the program.

Vortex would think it was ahead by 200-300 points, when his slow, gradual pressure would overpower it from too far away. Just for curiosity, I compiled a version that would search until I interrupted it. Even searching for 3 days, Vortex thought it was winning, yet as I played Chessmaster 1000's moves, his moves would win.

I say this because very few people on this site can win in this fashion. Usually a win against Vortex can be cured by a longer time setting or something that was missing in the knowledge.

This was not the case.

Even in my own wins against Vortex, the scores are not so far off. CM1000 would let his pawns get captured only to occupy a huge hole with his pieces and attack like crazy some 15 moves (30 plies) later.

I know the names of every person on here who purchased a Gothic Vortex license, and he is not one of them.

Programs are easy to beat. See?

Hosing the computer

yep, but most people would probably play 2. Qxe8+ then not be able to deliver the checkmate :)

George,

Can you email me these games? I will print the diagrams for everyone.

Caissus, I generated every mate possible with 5-piece in Gothic Chess. That is, I have the "5-piece tablebases" completed for Gothic Chess.

My solutions are not from Vortex, these are actually forced mates.

I started by identifying all checkmated positions. Then, I find all of the moves that lead to a mate in 1, a mate in 2, a mate in 3, etc.

This program ran for several months and solved all such mates.

The endgame databases will be part of the next version of Vortex so you can see for yourself.

Do you mean like this?

Mate in 268

Mate in 202

Solutions are here:

solutions

Everyone who sent their pictures in for the Gothic deck of cards, thanks. I will be printing them soon [and wait till you see the joker's picure.]

So you want Gothic Vortex on your machine, or else you won't play me? [laughs]

Chicken.

Dano, want to play a game of Gothic Chess with me?

And the danochicken reappears, covered with his own muck.

For those who missed the dialog on General before the Monkey hid it.

hide this monkey

ohhhh beeee-have!

Harley went down in 18, Bwildman in 19, and Stevie in 20. Guess Stevie gets the Gold medal, Bwildman the Silver, Harley the Bronze.

Just one too many 9's actually. One of the 10's was Danochicken, and he is the JOKER of the deck.

One of the projects I will be working on with Fencer is the creation of a pgn database of all games of Gothic Chess played here on BrainKing. These game will be tied into a database engine bundled with the version of Gothic Vortex coming out in December.

As you move on the Gothic Chess board from within votrex, a scrolling list of ALL PLAYERS who have been in the same position will automatically appear below the board. You can either continue playing on the Gothic Board just to view who else has done the moves, or you can click on a game, and automatically pick up where they left off.

As you move back and forth in their game, again, the list would conitnue to build below the board, showing everyone who has ever been in the same position. You can go from game-to-game-to game forever and always see who has done what.

I am offering players the opporunity to have their names appear in the database window as other than their BK handles, if they want.

Let me know via email at GothicChessInfo@aol.com if this interests you.

Spoken like a true chicken.

[puts Danochicken on permanent ignore.]

Have a nice life, jackass.

Here is his decline of my offer to play a game

Here is the invite, 4 days per move

Now everyone can ignore danochicken.

Since I know I can beat you, I challenged you. If you thought you could win, you would have accepted.

You ran, like the rabbit you post about so often.

L-O-S-E-R

Scared Dano? Scared to lose for the 4th time?

Dano is the chicken. He declined to play me. (laughs at him)

Danoschek, the running rabbit.

Spoken like a true chicken.

Dano, are you saying you will not play me until you can get Gothic Vortex working on your computer? I thought it was very weak and you were its master?

So you won't play me unless you have Gothic Vortex? How interesting.

Ed challenges Dano

Fencer can confirm this challenge was sent. And this image is hosted on a domain he controls.

Let's see if Dano is scared.

You did not accept yet Dano, you afraid of losing to me for the 4th time?

Ed challenges Dano

Fencer can confirm this challenge was sent. And this image is hosted on a domain he controls.

Let's see if Dano is scared.

Very funny Scarlet! I am laughing so hard! I can just see Dano now sitting in his chair wishing he could remove that funny post, just yelling at himself, and nobody cares, lol!

Aces
1. QuoUsque
2. Caissus
3. ChessCarpenter
4. nantonas

Kings
5. HerculesBeast
6. strydor 
7. rabbitoid
8. tangram

Queens 
9. slate  
10. redsales
11. nstre 
12. Dredger

Jacks 
13. WhisperzQ 
14. mandirigma
15. Coenus
16. Savage

10's
17. facepan  
18. (the joker is here)
19. Fencer  
20. defrag1971 
21. anticonformista

9's  
22. grillyx  
23. grenv  
24. juangrande  
25. Greenknight  
26. Chessmaster1000

8's  
27. GKChesterton 
28. taikoki 
29. Bobes
30. tedbarber

7's 
31. diogenes  
32. Pedro Martínez 
33. SCRAT
34. Mikezilla

6's 
35. BuilderQ  
36. Scubbabisto 
37. JAGR 
38. tonyh

5's 
39. zetes
40. PUPPETMASTER
41. jestone
42. KeithGraham

4's
43. Nasmichael 
44. clean4today
45. Cerebro 
46. spocko

3's
47. presburger 
48. Zichac 
49. VikingX  
50. tahur

2's
51. bwildman
52. FriendJosh  
53. BIG BAD WOLF  
54. the65thsquare

Maybe I will make a new deck again this year. If the top 52 players want their pictures on the 2004 deck of cards, let me know by September 1.

In 63 BC Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC), orator, statesman and patriot, attained the rank of consul and in that capacity exposed to the Roman senate the plot of Lucius Sergius Catilina (approx. 108-62 BC) and his friends to overthrow the government of Rome.

It came about in this way. Catiline, who was running for consulship a second time after having lost the first time around, tried to ensure his victory by resorting to blatant and excessive bribery. Cicero in self-righteous indignation issued a law prohibiting shenanigans of this kind. It was obvious to all that the law was directed specifically at Catiline. Catiline, in turn, conspires with some of his cronies to murder Cicero and the key men of the senate on the day of the election. Cicero discovered the plan and postponed the election to give the senate time to discuss the attempted coup de tat.

The day after the election was supposed to be held, Cicero addressed the senate on the matter and Catiline's reaction was immediate and violent. In response to Catiline's behavior, the senate issued a senatus consultum ultimum, a kind of declaration of martial law invoked whenever the senate and the Roman Republic were in imminent danger from treason or sedition. Ordinary law was suspended and Cicero, as consul, was invested with absolute power.

When the election was finally held, Catiline lost again. Anticipating the bad news, the conspirators had already begun to assemble an army, made up mostly of Sulla's veteran soldiers. The nucleus of conspirators was also joined by senators whose profligate tastes left them permanently without funds. The plan was to initiate an insurrection in all of Italy, put Rome to the torch and to kill as many senators as they could.

Through some crafty moves of his own, Cicero knew exactly what was being planned. On November 8 Cicero called for a meeting of the senate in the Temple of Jupiter in the Capitol, which was used for this purpose only when great danger threatened. Catiline had the temerity to attend also. It was then that Cicero delivered directly to Catiline his famous:


Quo usque tandem abutere, patientia nostra, O Catalina? Quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? Quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia? Nihilne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae, nihil timor populi, nihil concursus bonorum omnium, nihil hic munitissimus habendi senatus locus, nihil horum ora voltusque moverunt? Patere tua consilia non sentis, constrictam iam horum omnium scientia teneri coniurationem tuam non vides? Quid proxima, quid superiore nocte egeris, ubi fueris, quos convocaveris, quid consilii ceperis, quem nostrum ignorare arbitraris? O tempora, o mores! Senatus haec intellegit. Consul videt; hic tamen vivit. Vivit? immo vero etiam in senatum venit, fit publici consilii particeps, notat et designat oculis ad caedem unum quemque nostrum. Nos autem fortes viri satis facere rei publicae videmur, si istius furorem ac tela vitemus. Ad mortem te, Catilina, duci iussu consulis iam pridem oportebat, in te conferri pestem, quam tu in nos [omnes iam diu] machinaris. An vero vir amplissumus, P. Scipio, pontifex maximus, Ti. Gracchum mediocriter labefactantem statum rei publicae privatus interfecit; Catilinam orbem terrae caede atque incendiis vastare cupientem nos consules perferemus? Nam illa nimis antiqua praetereo, quod C. Servilius Ahala Sp. Maelium novis rebus studentem manu sua occidit.

Fuit, fuit ista quondam in hac re publica virtus, ut viri fortes acrioribus suppliciis civem perniciosum quam acerbissimum hostem coercerent. Habemus senatus consultum in te, Catilina, vehemens et grave, non deest rei publicae consilium neque auctoritas huius ordinis; nos, nos, dico aperte, consules desumus. Decrevit quondam senatus, ut L. Opimius consul videret, ne quid res publica detrimenti caperet; nox nulla intercessit; interfectus est propter quasdam seditionum suspiciones C. Gracchus, clarissimo patre, avo, maioribus, occisus est cum liberis M. Fulvius consularis. Simili senatus consulto C. Mario et L. Valerio consulibus est permissa res publica; num unum diem postea L. Saturninum tribunum pl. et C. Servilium praetorem mors ac rei publicae poena remorata est? At [vero] nos vicesimum iam diem patimur hebescere aciem horum auctoritatis. Habemus enim huiusce modi senatus consultum, verum inclusum in tabulis tamquam in vagina reconditum, quo ex senatus consulto confestim te interfectum esse, Catilina, convenit. Vivis, et vivis non ad deponendam, sed ad confirmandam audaciam. Cupio, patres conscripti, me esse clementem, cupio in tantis rei publicae periculis me non dissolutum videri, sed iam me ipse inertiae nequitiaeque condemno. Castra sunt in Italia contra populum Romanum in Etruriae faucibus conlocata, crescit in dies singulos hostium numerus; eorum autem castrorum imperatorem ducemque hostium intra moenia atque adeo in senatu videmus intestinam aliquam cotidie perniciem rei publicae molientem. Si te iam, Catilina, comprehendi, si interfici iussero, credo, erit verendum mihi, ne non potius hoc omnes boni serius a me quam quisquam crudelius factum esse dicat. Verum ego hoc, quod iam pridem factum esse oportuit, certa de causa nondum adducor ut faciam. Tum denique interficiere, cum iam nemo tam inprobus, tam perditus, tam tui similis inveniri poterit, qui id non iure factum esse fateatur. Quamdiu quisquam erit, qui te defendere audeat, vives, et vives ita, ut [nunc] vivis. multis meis et firmis praesidiis obsessus, ne commovere te contra rem publicam possis. Multorum te etiam oculi et aures non sentientem, sicut adhuc fecerunt, speculabuntur atque custodient.

Etenim quid est, Catilina, quod iam amplius expectes, si neque nox tenebris obscurare coeptus nefarios nec privata domus parietibus continere voces coniurationis tuae potest, si illustrantur, si erumpunt omnia? Muta iam istam mentem, mihi crede, obliviscere caedis atque incendiorum.

Quo usque is how the first oration of Cicero against Cataline starts out.

Quo usque tandem abutere patientia nostra, O Catalina!"

How long will you continue to abuse our patience, O Cataline?

Of note is that Cicero used "abutere" instead of "abuteris", which is 2 person, singular, future tense for "will you abuse". His change of the language was stylistic and caught the attention of his audience, and it added additional emphasis to his fantastic speech.

You should now know why I changed my name if you read through all of the trashy posts left by Danoschek, who is the biggest pain in the butt the world has ever known.

Quo usque tandem abutere patientia nostra, O Danoschek!"

Duh.

You are so full of crap Dano.

The Chinook progam had 2.5 billion positions in its RAM database when I played it. It searched about 170,000 positions per second.

Let's see you beat it Dano.

http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~chinook is the link.

Friday, October 5, 1984 I got my first Macintosh. I had been programming on the Apple IIe before that. I rolled out The Sniper, my chess program, in 1986 when I was 19.

Statistics
White won 1931 (48.19 %)
Black won 1992 (49.71 %)
Draws 84 (2.09 %)

4007 total

To solve chess, a computer the size of the universe is needed. There is a very famous paper on this, I forget where it is. There are more chess positions than atoms in the universe, so with "information density" such that a solution to one position could fit on one atom (an impossibility) you would need a universe to solve chess.

Go to "New Game", select Gothic, then "Show Rules". Last time I looked there was over 4000 I think.

I think people believe computers are infallible. This is far from the case. I think I am the only person to have defeated a World Champion calliber program in chess and checkers.

Programs do have weaknesses!

I am wondering if anyone is aware that International Master Mike Valvo played Deep Thought in a correspondence chess game and won! Deep Thought had 3 days to make each move. At times it could search 34 plies ahead (17 moves for each side to move).

And how did Valvo win? With a piece sacrifice!

Look at this game:

Deep Thought vs. Valvo and just try and grasp the complexity in the King's Gambit game.

Computers are strong at tactics, but not at strategy. Grandmaster Savielly Tartakower had a great quote:

Tactics is what you do when you have something to do. Strategy is what you do when there is nothing to do.

And therein lies the weakness of programs.

Gothic is not based on Janus at all! Just look at the castling differences. In Janus, in one direction the king leaps 4 squares, and in the other, just 3. This is a huge difference. In fact, Janus plays like a "colors-reversed" game because when the king ends up in the Knight's file on one side of the board, it is exactly like the opposite color does in chess.

Gothic is actually more closely related to Bird's chess in 1875 than Capablanca's chess from 1925.

See the paper at:

this link for a comparison between Bird, Capablanca, and Gothic.

While I was giving a 20 board simul in Kansas City in 2001, I lost one game to an 11-year old participant in the Supernationals-2 National chess tournament.

At the end of the game, I asked him his rating. I was surprised when he said it was 1340 or something like that.

I allowed a skewer of my Chancellor and Queen, loosing the C for just a Bishop. I was embarrassed by this miscue, and thought I could surely trick this youngster and recover.

No chance.

So, I would have to say this singular example demonstrates players of any strength can pull off amazing wins.

Most tournament players are "booked up" in chess. You are not playing them, you are playing every master game they have studied and incorporated into their repotoire.

Gothic Chess levels that playing field. The truly talented players shine in Gothic, even if their ratings are held back due to battling so many "bookworms".

It depends. If my opponent has a Chancellor and I have an Archbishop, then the Archbishop is stronger. If I have a Chancellor and my opponent has an Archbishop, then the Chancellor is stronger :)

Look at the last game between ChessCarpenter and I. He snagged my Chancellor earlier, leaving me with just an Archbishop, but I felt I had the greater attacking chances.

The Archbishop is, in general, weaker than the Chancellor, but the question is, by how much? Would you trade Archbishop + Pawn for a Chancellor? How about Archibshop + Knight for Chancellor and 2 pawns?

See it gets complicated!

Even stranger is Archbishop + Rook vs. Chancellor and Bishop! These are made of the "same pieces" once you decompartmentalize them (Rook + Bishop + Knight) but I think the Chancellor + Bishop is stronger since you can have a "Chancellor's Vortex" occur with this piece combination.

See this paper for a complete discussion on the derivation of the piece values.

Click on this link at the University of Alberta for more information.

And yes, that is my name there for helping out with that project.

ok Mr. Buttox

ok Mr. Buttox