Dolittle: I am sure u havent opened a can of worms, u asked a question thats all, and people will answer it for you, if they know the answer

Didn't mean to open a can of worms. I do a lot of looking around on the site when I have nothing else to do!!

Ahh, I see what you mean. They were paying members at the time, and Fencer hasn't gotten around to updating the list.

Eriisa:Even pawns or someone that hasn't been online in like months. One that is on there isn't even a member here anymore. I was just nosing around and was curious about it. Thanks for your reply!

Fencer: I kind of like that idea of the automatic forfeit of all but the 20 oldest games.

And I think your '10% a day' idea would give incentive to renew, when they see the BKR start to drop! LOL

Dolittle: one requirement that I know of. VOLUNTEER! lol

Bry: As long as the opponent wouldn't have to play them in just one day time as well...

Just a question as I am curious. What are the requirements to be a member of customer service?

Fencer: Perhaps 14 days after the expiry of the membership, all game times for games already started when they were a mamber, revert to, say "1 day".

This way, if a Pawn who has previously supported the site, can still continue the games, but will be under pressure by way of time to finish them, and if they time-out, it will naturally thin the number of games out anyway.

In addition, the user will be able to "choose" games to play every day if moving in them all is not possible - rather than have games forfeited for them.

furbster: Very good point, as on IYT

wellywales: She gets the message... but why offer a draw? Her automatic vacation days are out. If she doesn't move till the next timeout, she will loose the game.
Anyway, it won't automatically release you from that tournament. Not until all the games in that section are finished.

Now, if you PM Fencer and ask him nicelly, maybe he'll get you out of it. (I think you have to finish all the games, though)

wellywales: you know.. I can't remember doing a draw on this site.. if I have it was long ago.. I know if I resign the game it automatically goes to pm.. so.. I am not really sure..

ScarletRose: Thanks I have now done that, will she get a PM or when she next picks the game up?

wellywales: I see what you mean.. Hmm perhaps offering a draw??

ScarletRose: I should not have to do that Rose, notice in section 2 it applies there as well.

I agree, let them enter as many tourneys of a type as they want. They can still not go over the 50 game limit so it won't be harming that aspect of the membership. If someone only plays backgammon tis a bit silly that they can only play one backgammon tourney.

wellywales: I quite agree and had much to say (3 long messages) about the subject at the end of August. About 30 or so messages from this point.


I think the value for money for Knights is appalling when it comes to tournaments. It's such a stingy deal that you almost might as well be a Pawn.

A word of advice for future tournaments. Check the other players and drop out if you find someone with a mega list of games. They will probably be slow (and if not, why take the risk when there are so many other tourneys and you have a ridiculous limit of only one!). Also choose the ones with shorter time limits as the longer time limits attract slower players so you'd either be dropping more of these on average or be regretting getting stuck in one.

Fencer: I would say as long as it is WAY over the limit. I would hate to see a normal pawn go to a next round of a tournament, and be a few games over their limit and then see a message about possible losing some of their games - since we do not want to "punish" those pawn who go over their limit.

Maybe anything over 50 or 100 for pawns should be reduced to below that level. (And also add to the message that users get when their membership expire that they need to get their games down to "whatever" level or risk losing some games at random - or of course renew their membership)

wellywales: well maybe a friendly hello to her will speed up the game.. something like..

Great.. I noticed you on line and was hoping that perhaps we could spend some time on our game if you wouldn't mind..

Or similiar.. I noticed she has some health problems and I believe she may have had some puter problems.. perhaps that is what was slowing her down..

wellywales: Yes i agree with u there. Maybe one should have the option of opting out of the tournament once they realise they cant win, therefore, freeing up space for one to be able to play in another tournament if one whishes too.

Princess Alison: Look at this, I am stuck in these games, I can't win, why are the games not being played?
http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=11732&tri=63577&trnst=0

Czuch Chuckers: I agree with your comments

wellywales: Why is that????

I think tournaments are a waste of time for a Brain Knight

Czuch Chuckers: Hey Chuck... did we just agree on something? hehe *faint*

Fencer: Yes, very good idea.

Fencer: I do understand your concerns, but does your proposal include tournaments as well? For example you recently started a team tournament for cubed backgammon with 9 point matches and a long time limit. Something like this could last well past someones membership expiration. Hopefully you can find a way to keep people from abusing the system wiothout hurting those who are just caught up in circumstances beyond their control.

We are on about expired memberships....
This shows that the player has supported the site in the past, its not as if they never have.. many a time, there are genuine reasons for their expiration. So try not to act too nasty about the situation

Fencer: I think it is a good idea, but maybe only if they have silly amounts of games going. I know one person that this situation applies too!

playBunny: or make a random move in every game where they havn't moved during the last 24 hours

Fencer: You could put a long rambling spiel (I'll write it if you like, lolol) expaining the whys and wherefores of blah, blah, blah... Put it at the top of every page and make it really long so that they have to scroll and scroll to get to their games or the game itself. No loss of games and a very simple cure - Cut down to Pawn levels or Throw me the money!

Fencer:

I this idea

Fencer: also remove them from fellowships too Filip, it would tidy a lot of them up a bit.. and that will also remove a bunch of their fellowship tourny games also to do another part of the "game culling" you are on about lol

I would like to solve this situation: A player purchases 6 months of Brain Rook membership, starts several thousand games and after the membership expires, he doesn't renew it because he still can play already started 2500 games [for example]. It is not fair to other users.
My proposal is: After 14 days of expiration, 10% of started games (randomly chosen) over the pawn limit will be forfeited every day.

Marfitalu: So you have to click several times, what's the problem? I can improve it, of course. The former meaning of fellowships was to create groups which play a specific game [or several specific games], they were not designed for ALL games at once.

Marfitalu: Oh! I see your point! I'm sorry, I don't know of any other way.

Marfitalu: You only have a series of boxes to tick. It doesn't take you to a different page each time.

Marfitalu: Click on any one game then at the bottom of the page is a list where you can add all the other games.

Marfitalu: ah right... sorry I cannot help you then, but I am sure there are a lot of people who can

Marfitalu: I am not sure but right at the top it says all games.. is that it?? Its a longggggg time since I have created any tournaments

playBunny: There were two separate games
in the waiting room, of each colour. The inviting
person then deleted the more uncomfortable one
and told me "too many games". It would have been
perfectly okay to delete both, not at all though to
create new games in the waiting room shortly later.

Onto that I even got racist remarks now about Mexicans
from him in gamenotes so I'll try to kick his [removed] anyway.

Princess Alison: My humblest apologies if you felt targeted by my why so imperfect wording. As the honorable Mister Bugs elaborated, it was merely supposed to be a general warning, and I am sure most players would not use a time agreement in intention to bend its genuine meaning.

Princess Alison: Don't you mean Rabbit

My Lady: Yes'm.

playBunny: You en half talk alot

furbster: that is correct

and i don't think pawns can delete games, so they can't delete the other in the case of two seperate games.

Princess Alison: Like all but the occasional bad apple, you're no cheat. But Tiyulee has discovered that players who value people and honour less than rating points, even those scored in an empty way, can exploit the Fischer's clock.

For example, they'll offer a one hour game with a one hour bonus. A player, the victim, accepts in the belief that the game wlil be played in an hour or two and that the offer is from someone who's using the clock because they want swift action. Instead the cheat waits for the entire hour before making their move. This gives them another hour from the bonus. Even if the victim player plays immediately, the cheat will delay for a further hour. A few hours later the game has still hardly begun but, as Tiyulee says, life and/or sleep causes the victim to make a last move then reluctantly log out. An hour or so later the axe falls. Chalk up a shameful victory for the cheat.

There are very few people like that but all sites have one or two. Sociopaths like to play games too, even if they aren't the games that normal people play. At VogClub, there's a player who offers matches which have a total time of 2 minutes (it's a real-time site). This is for a 64-point match! Obviously you can hardly finish a single game in two minutes, let alone a 64-point match, so the whole thing is an exercise in who can click the fastest. Unsuspecting players (uncountable and I was one) come to the table without realising that it's got a ridiculous time limit. A few moves later having pondered on how badly the cheat is playing and how best to take advantage of the poor moves, the game is over. And it's a shock! The cheat also pretends to not know what's happening and acts all concerned. Then, when you cotton on (usually after another player has filled you in on this guy), the cheat gets all blase - "it was done to me, sob, sob, so I do it to others". Very pathetic.

_________
The other exploit that Tiyulee is exposing is where the cheat offers to play two games of a game type that has a bias in favour of one side, usually white. Pente, for instance, is won by white in 53% of games but only 47% for black. That's 13% more wins for white than black (53/47 = 1.127). The cheat offers two games with alternating colours but deletes the match in which he is black.

I'm explaining this one without having witnessed it myself. I haven't played any two-game matches and deleted one of the games, so I don't know if it's actually possible. It makes sense that deleting the first game will delete the match and that deleting the second is not allowed at all (otherwise what happens to the match?). So perhaps Tiyulee is referring to two separate single-game matches of one colour each.

Princess Alison: I think Tiyulee isn't accusing you or other people who like to play quick games. Only people who offer a one-hour-per-move game and move at the end of each hour. After a few hours the opponent might need sleep or cannot wait still another hour for the next move. Then the opponent will time-out

Tiyulee: I think i have to disagree with you here. I play one hour games on a regular basis, and i am sure that when my games are sitting in the "waiting games" list, showing its a one hour game, u know whether u can complete the game within the time or not, if they cant they wont accept the invite. I always put one hour games in there and have never hoped that my oponent will time out because he/she needs sleep.