Artful Dodger: So God is now not part of life, we have no spirit or soul??

There goes Christianity... best all those making a living out of it hang up their coats!!

(V):  We are talking the science of life.  period.  What we KNOW.  Not various interpretations of ancient texts. 

Yours is a subjective view and mine is objective.  Yours based on suppositions and theory and mine on solid and  provable facts.  

Artful Dodger: God is rubbish?? The OT is rubbish!!

Please, one minute you use science, one minute you are against it. Adam was created then given life.

Now... which is it??

And don't use some old outdated (and the Jewish community know it) understanding of life... It was thought up before scientific understanding of life came into existence!!

(V):  Pure rubbish.  Total metaphysical nonsense.   You're a biological life form.  Sperm is alive.  For that matter, there is no such thing as a beginning of life as much as a continuation of life.  Life begets life.  This spiritual nonsense is not scientific.  It's a life.  It's a being.  It's a scientific accepted FACT.   Remember, you're the one that insists on facts.  It's a fact and stated over and over by the world's leading scientists and embryologists.  It's a settled matter.   A new human being comes into existence at the MOMENT of conception.   Not AFTER some metaphysical phenomenon occurs.  Science isn't on your side and the witch doctor isn't a trusted expert in this case. 

Artful Dodger: No. Telling the truth. Without 'spirit' life as such is not alive, just so many elements working to make more of the same. Crystals can do that

Are you going to say a rock is alive??

gogul: Rubbish!

WE import so much, that is the problem.... and Health and Safety requires that food that can be poisonous is not sold. And they have to allow imperfect conditions on storage as well as a safe period so that goods do not suddenly go off on the stroke of midnight.

I don't throw away yoghurts, and the EU law about fruit & veg shape and size is being fought at the moment.

... Switzerland has Health and Safety regulations doesn't it... or does it sell poisonous food?? If it does.. then the EU would ban imports from Switzerland, so your chocolate makers would loose most of their trade!!

(V): You equivocate. 

Artful Dodger: No... it's a biological life form, just like a plant, virus (and from a scientific point of view it is a fight between mother and embryo)......

But when is life (from a spiritual point of view) conscious in that biological shell??

That is the point when suffering can occur.

Artful Dodger: Keller is a doctor, they have an oath remember

And torture was used (waterboarding being one method) more than "THREE" times.

And there are other methods to obtain info without torture. I mean whatever happened to all those truth drugs, psychics, lie detectors, etc??

Tuesday: I have never yet blamed Bam for anything, except being a socialist with a bad plan, but nothing specific so far

Tuesday: What did Bush do to stop abortions?


You forget that we have 3 seperate governments.... president, congress and courts... Bush did what he could to get supreme court in his favor on abortion, and he is personally against it... he did what he could do, but this should help your curiousity a bit?

Czuch:  good point  ;)

Tuesday: Obama has nothing to do with torture and he is phasing out of Iraq


this started under the Bush administration, phasing out of Iraq....

just pointing this out, since all we hear about is how Obama inherited so much of a mess from Bush... but it doesnt seem like you want to admit everything else, like this, that he inherited as well

Übergeek 바둑이: A girl of 13 is pregnant.


I dont disagree that abortion should be a legal medical option..... but it is not necessarily the free choice of a woman to do with her own body as she wishes.

.... and you have to remember, this "child" you speak about at 13, it wasnt so long ago, when life expectancy was much shorter, this child was in the prime of her life and easily in child bearing years

Übergeek 바둑이: It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.


So it is not torture to inflict this kind of pain if it involves a lawful sanction? So, if I make a law saying that waterboarding is a lawful way to interrogate a terrorist suspect, then all of a sudden it is not torture anymore????

Tuesday: Being the US does not give anyone the right to torture no matter what

Okay, so you dont think that making a man eat his last meal and then walk himself into a chair to be executed is a form of torture? I sure do, and just like you think that waterboarding you would be tortuous, I feel the same about someone leading me to my death chair

Übergeek 바둑이: For approximately the fist two trimesters the fetus needs the woman to survive,



Sorry, i havent read the whole post or any after yet, I like to comment on certain points when I see them....

I believe that a fetus could survive in an artificial womb... I agree that a woman is a unique kind of incubator, I dont think you would really argue that just because of this, that they are an object to be sold though

gogul:  I'm not so sure it's idle.  It's fundamental to the question.  What is the unborn? 

I remember one radio host said that the debate is over and the pro-life side has lost.  he said that in the 70's.  lol.   Here we are and the debate is still strong>   It will continue to be a debate long after I'm gone as long as it's legal.  

Isn't it odd that Obama supports abortion at any time for any reason and yet wants to reduce the number?  Why?  If it's not morally wrong, and it's a personal decision, then why does reducing abortions matter? 

I also find it odd that people can be so venomously against waterboarding and yet in the same breath favor the dismemberment of the unborn.  Sure, they say let the woman decide but who gives the unborn a voice in the matter?  The two views are inconsistent. 

Artful Dodger: It's idle to talk about cell splitting or how that is called, isn't it. Who can't protect oneself from getting the little monster should leave it maybe lol

gogul:even the morning after pill goes too far for me.  But that's because of my underlying belief and to be consistent in my view, the morning after pill does the same thing as any abortion only at the very earliest of stages. 

Artful Dodger: A morning after pill is maybe something different as aboration. It has to go fast in my opinion. It's impossible to talk about for weeks and then get rid of it. That's cruel, I can not say for the embrio, but for me.

And some companies will make billions off Cap and Trade.  Goldman Sachs for one.  And they made two billion and paid NO TAXES.

Oh and Al Gore will profit big time if cap and trade goes through.

But other countries will NOT limit emmsions.   And who will get burnt by Cap and Trade?  

The little guy.

Thanks to Obama. 

gogul: It's murder to kill the same human being once it is born.  (so far it's murder...who knows where it will be in years).  What's the difference? 

Artful Dodger: As a man I'm willing to let live and grow the life that comes out of my loins (loins?). But women do as they please of course .... .......

Tuesday: Yes. He is beyond doupt the leader of the world... what a joke this terrorist bubble. sry ny but that is how it is.

gogul: and Bin Bum Laden is dead by some arab news?

gogul: I wonder if that is true. Originaly "al Kaida" ment a list, a network of a university or something like that.

Tuesday: I'm glad that the swiss got freed in Mali. Lets bash the Al Kaida. Morons.

Tuesday: The videos can not be posted here

Tuesday: unsubliminmal to fool me once and axis evil you. Be aware

(V): the waterboarding stuff.

Is someones hands bound behind the back on a radiator to give a special treatment to ones face torture or just beating? It's the daily mess in Chinas uncontroled police offices...