As this is the politics board (not the politics of religion) check this out:  Debate Club - Religion

We need to breath life into the fellowship. :)

Tuesday: .. The Aramaic (which Jesus spoke) says "Daddy", it's not so much marriage, it's divorce that has led to a bigger revolution re Protestants/Catholics (Henry VIII)

.. The immersing is as such symbolic, water being a substitute for spirit... so it's in the thought behind the act that counts.

And I'm an old style transmigrationist... Nut the bit about babies being sinless and in certain respects not making choices still applies.

I chewed

I love Sly & The Family Stone.

Tuesday: Well yes. Matthew.

Tuesday: Nothing wrong with music, just some of the songs are ... inaccurate.

The RCC is not a cult, just tooooo secret in certain respects. I'd love them to open their archives.

As to their money.. both aspects of Protestant and RCC faiths suffer from the same greediness.... but not as a general rule of thumb.

Tuesday: The Roman catholic Church and Roman Emperors of old would be proud of them.

I mean they invented the business side, and the Protestant extremists modernised it.

I prefer the age when it was still a fellowship and philosophy

I wonder if they have back supports cause of the heaviness of the make up?

Tuesday: Aye, I know... I notice on such Christian groups sites, they advertise alot of products to buy.

As the saying goes.. "In America it became a business".

.... I recon the peroxide comes delivered in a tanker!!

And BTW. The Iranian Siemens clickers found us!

gogul: lol ok.

gogul: Your link didn't work.

Oh well ok I don't get that link right. It's the pic with the the woman showing stinky finger to ahmadinedjadu

heavenlyemma: Hiya.

BBC is also cool at part and things have gone that might come back. Anyway only BBC World matters here.

The Iranian nutheads... when they talk about foreign intrusion that would have lead to the protests, This should translate to 'state interventionalism'. This government would love to turn their own history into a historical show down debate. Give it to them! We'd love to know more about the Persia/Iran/Great Britain complex, as a nice opening to a decent blah blah. It might force Iran to mobilize intellectual and educated forces, which could be amazingly interesting.

Meanwhile --> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ELzM_S573r8/SkPSKtb91Dl/AAAAAAAAL5E/o_w-V7khmak/1600-h/Iran+-+Foto+des+Monats.jpg

gogul: I know what ya mean.

Tuesday: No I know where that containment of makeup that got knicked went to!!

Tuesday: Don't worry.. I've found worse, be it though a religious extreme group. Some Ultra right wing Christian (WBO Church) that would like all Jewish people killed for crucifying Christ.... The fact that it was part of the plan just goes in one ear and out the other

gogul: We have several news channels over here, not just the BBC.

And btw... they did expose the lie Tony Blair made about the 45 mins business. But of course... that's not important

Artful Dodger: So, you are saying people from the Bush admin as well as your military are lying?

gogul: The world moves so much slower forward as our minds are able to. Modes, not clothes, grow and fall. Worthy is to keep one owns esprit awaken, a little exercice it seems, where knots, synapsies and braincells are under voltage.

I think a newspaper with a BBC logo would look like a joke. I watch tv at times, maybe a half hour the whole past month. Seems like every country has it's own media problem. In Switzerland, my problem is that about two publishing houses "go with the time", it's kind a fluid nonsence, instead of staying true to themselv.

I'd go crazy mad and insane if I'd sit somewhere I could get the first local news from every where in the world with some mouse clicks.

gogul:  I think we get the BBC here but I don't watch it.  I only watch a few things on Fox and also some on the networks.  I'm a huge fan of Glen Beck.  Cept when he cries on tv.  I wanna slap him 

Artful Dodger: I don't like BBC. That's a puffed up opinion maker, blah blah as if it would be important what they have to say.

(V):  ^{Being in the news doesn't make something a fact.  ;)}

Artful Dodger: I'm saying it's Sunday night, you asked me to produce 3 facts and I did.

The rest I don't need to prove as it is historically stated. It's been in the news, so only one who has lived on Jupiter could miss it.

And I'm going to bed soon.

Look up the recent historical events, statements made by your government, military leaders, and your soldiers and their commanders in Iraq.

Good eating!!

(V):  So you're saying that you're not going to defend your earlier assertions?  Interesting. 

Artful Dodger: Nope..... you are.

(V):  All your other statement here are mostly assertions.  You're dodging.

Artful Dodger: No. I'm just doing what you asked... produce 3 facts. Are you going to say it's a matter of opinion that they happened?

......Nagasaki was not the planned target of the second A bomb.

Over the Cuban missile crises, much secret talking was going on, which resulted in a compromise involving Turkey and what was placed there strategically.

Racial segregation was still widely practised in parts of the USA even in the mid 20th century.

******************** are these just opinions?

(V):  I can tell that you agree with me that all your other statements are merely opinion. 

Artful Dodger: I focused on three facts. Historical events, that regardless of opinion HAPPENED!!

I said:  "Much of what you state as a fact is really opinion. To prove it, name three "facts" regarding the US and see how they stand."

Focus on what you've already stated. 

(V): What's that to do with the 3 facts you asked me to produce?? Now you are changing the subject!!

(V): And world history, especially over the last 60 years is significant. We got caught in a spiral of fear, mistakes were made. Paranoia ruled.

No, Iraq became a calling point as the USA put it's soldiers in a position where they destabilised the region and had no plan for the aftermath of the invasion.

they made it so Iraq's borders were weak and anyone can just walk in..

As for the birth of the USA as we know it today.. yes it was the civil war, otherwise your country would be split in two. Independence is just a conception point, as many have found, not the birth.

No outside power has the right to interfere with a democratic process within a country, unless called in to make sure (as per UN observers) that the election is fair.

Over the last 50 years or so, the USA and USSR have interfered so much that the world is mixed up, all over power games and a believe that their is no room for the opposite side.

Easier to deal with for whom? The USA and the thirst for oil, or for the population of those who A, B or C is now been put in power over?


and on and on and on. these are ALL opinions. They are not arguments. They are assertions on your part. You could be right or you could be wrong. They are all debatable points. Like many here, including myself, your posts contain mostly opinion. And most of the time you offer no formal argument to support your assertions. That's fine with me. To be expected in a forum such as this. But I know the difference between fact and opinion and much of what you say is simply your opinion. Not fact.

Oh yeah, that's a fact.

Artful Dodger: Nagasaki was not the planned target of the second A bomb.

Over the Cuban missile crises, much secret talking was going on, which resulted in a compromise involving Turkey and what was placed there strategically.

Racial segregation was still widely practised in parts of the USA even in the mid 20th century

Czuch: Czuch.. I was speaking globally, not just the USA. The Cold War was 'fought' by many nations. Nuclear weapons stockpile war, biological weapons "we'd better have them" stockpile war.. Us in the UK still have an island off Scotland that is a no go due to an experiment with Anthrax.

(V): More to the point. I was saying that no matter the scenerio, critics of the US would find something to blame on the US. Not all critics, but many.

Facts are often in the eye of the beholder. Much of what you state as a fact is really opinion. To prove it, name three "facts" regarding the US and see how they stand.

Thanks goodness the two British boys have a different father.

(V): Embarrassing sword facts. At least there are some places who try to reach their goals with intelligence. Like Canada, or Norway, or the US courently. Or less intelligence, like Island, but at least! GB's representatives are still a manslaughter to me. I'm very sorry. Or why sorry? You probably know the degenerated British uperclass.

(V): We got caught in a spiral of fear,

Really???? I believe that fits right in to what AD is trying to point out..... there are groups of people out there who exist only to ruin freedom and democracy, and they employ terrorist tactics to achieve that goal, and yet all you can see is how WE got caught in a spiral of fear, blame us, we are the aholes for being afraid of people who want to kill us??? We are paranoid?!?!?!?

Artful Dodger: You were talking about the USA being dammed either way, it isn't.

And world history, especially over the last 60 years is significant. We got caught in a spiral of fear, mistakes were made. Paranoia ruled.

Fact.... not blame.

(V): I wasn't discussing the history of the world. That has nothing to do with the thesis of my post. If you want to discuss another topic, then don't refer back to my original post because honestly I don't know what you're talking about with respect to my original comments.

Czuch: