Artful Dodger: So you think the ACLU forged documents blaming the U.S. government of murder, then the AP sent this story, along with the forged documents as evidence, out on the wire....which every news media organization except 12 recognized as a forgery, therefore didn't report?

Are you kidding me? If that were true, the media would have a field exposing the forgery, especially the right wing media....and the ACLU would be prosecuted for slander.

I even pasted a link to Google images of its effects on the unborn. But no one even commented on it. "It's too terrible to comtemplate, so let's pretend we didn't see it, or tell ourselves it can't be true."

Yes, it is true. Depleted Uranium causes radiation poisening, and has a half-life of 4.5 billion years. Our soldiers are infected, the Iraqi people are infected. This is what we coat our armor-penetrating missiles with. It is an evil weapon and only an evil regime would use it. And every sane person knows this. So it is better to ignore the ignorance, or question its validity.

The Usurper:Well you haven't proven that yet.  It may or may not be true.  I don't have any solid facts other than your word.  I don't consider anything from the ACLU credible.  So another source and no far left radical Alex Jones stuff please. 

Artful Dodger: It is true all right.

The Usurper:  If it's true.

Artful Dodger: Perhaps not. But that's a side issue, is it not? The real issue here is, the U.S. tortured people to death on multiple occasions.

The Usurper:  Not true. 

Artful Dodger: You've been programmed not to by the corporate media. More importantly, the documents obtained speak for themselves.

The Usurper:  I've never trusted the ACLU

http://www.aclu.org/intlhumanrights/gen/21236prs20051024.html

I forgot the link.

This news item was carried in less than a dozen of the thousands of U.S. media outlets, including newspapers, television, radio, magazines, etc. In newspapers, where it was carried, it never made the front page. None of these few media outlets who DID carry the story, carried it more than once.

This is called cover-up by the so-called Fourth Estate. Cover-up of what? Murder by torture.

Note, of 44 autopsy reports carried out by U.S. military doctors, 21 causes of death were listed as "murder," and 23 as "heart failure" during interrogation. Lacerations, broken bones, contusions, you name it.

I didn't know of this. I bet no one here knew either. I listened to a speech this morning, where I learned of it. The ACLU sued for these documents, and eventually got them.

The Usurper:

Artful Dodger: LOL My momma told me never to rock the boat.

The Usurper:  This is what ticks me off about you most.  YOu never find anything controversial to discuss. 

The Usurper:  Probably

"The CIA. itself a ruthless, terrorist organization inspires terrorism in response. In some cases, notably the CIA and al Qaeda, the relationship between the CIA and terrorism is symbiotic. The CIA has perpetrated an “American Holocaust”, the deaths of some 6 million people from its inception to the year 1987. As Long as the CIA Exists, the US will never be safe from terrorism."

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Find-Freedom.htm?EdNo=001&At=046866

Czuch: "You got no problems with any of that crap????"

Either you're missing my point or I'm missing yours. I told you what I think of Al Gore. I told you what I think of all the corporate news media, both liberal and conservative. Why, if I reject all of it, would you then think I have no problem with any of it?

Artful Dodger: You're confusing spiritual death with physical. lol

The Usurper:  I thought Baker would be dead by now.   

Artful Dodger: I think Ron Paul may be the only Congressman, of the Left OR Right, that our Founding Fathers would actually recognize. He is the only I know of who remotely stands on the same principles.

Artful Dodger: You missed nothing. He had no defense against Paul's argument, so he threw straw-man arguments at him, none of which addressed the core issue.

Ron Paul nailed it. He harkens back to the Constitution, and accuses the Congress of relinquishing its power to the Executive branch, which - as all history indicates - is a formula for disaster.

Artful Dodger: It'd be better when you let ME know when you've been converted. :o)

The Usurper:  I don't get what Baker was saying.   It didn't sound like he truly addressed Paul's objection.  Am I missing something?

The Usurper:  Let me know when you find one here 

...I can find conservatives, libertarians, liberals, constitutionalists, socialists, capitalists, you name it, against the so-called War on Terror, against the illegal Iraq invasion, and who recognize U.S. complicity in the events of 9/11. :o)

Artful Dodger: lol It's one of the best books you'll ever read. It's worth the price alone just to get to "know" Jubal Harshaw, the old cantankerous, brilliant iconoclast whose view of politics and American culture is sure to get anyone to thinking.

The Usurper:  Still probably better suited here:  Books. 

Czuch: "well I have at least the same on my side, there are just as many people, even more, who will tell me it could have happened just that way"

What does it matter what people will tell you? Where does the evidence lead, that ought to be the question.

As to the Pentagon, you've got one government-released 5-frame video showing a blur & an explosion. However, we have testimony that all other video was confiscated immediately by the FBI (for examples, from a gas station across the street, from a hotel, from the Dept. of Transportation), nor has the Pentagon released video footage from its dozens of surrounding cameras. What does the video you've seen prove? Nothing. What do the unreleased videos prove? Nothing except the government doesn't want you to see them. If there is nothing to hide, why not?

The Usurper:   Sounds out of this world. 

(V): I think I may lean a bit more towards Emma's interpretation here. lol :o)

"conservative"

Being a pawn, I can't modify my (many) errors.

Artful Dodger: Actually, Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" is a very political book. It was published in 1960 and in some ways foreshadowed the '60s counterculture movement. This is especially interesting considering Heinlein himself was a political conservation. But he was also a genuine explorer of the social condition. The main character (Valentine Michael Smith) eventually is murdered by a mob won't suffer the social taboos he is breaking in America. So you can see Heinlein's libertarianism shining through in this: that most people are too close-minded to let others be, i.e., they don't really pay more than lip service to the idea of Liberty. That speaks volumes about today's political climate.

 A Bit   Science channel  that way  ------->

It is while living with Jubal, that Mike begins his quest to "grok" the human condition. Grok is a basically untranslatable Martian term but it is a measure of the novel's impact that the word has sufficient gravitas to be defined in several dictionaries. For instance, The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language defines it as "to understand profoundly through intuition or empathy." That's about as close as you can get to a definition, and as is readily stated in the novel, you really have to have grown up Martian to truly Grok the word. Heinlein writes a wonderfully convoluted tale, creating an incredibly rich weave from the many threads that run through the story. For instance, he creates a legal history upon which Mike's claim to be defacto owner of Mars (and incidentally much of the moon) is based, and this further allows him to touch on the moral ambiguity of laying claim to an already inhabited planet; shades of settlers encroaching on the land of native American Indians. Indeed, the entire book is a minefield of social commentary and discussion, much of it as muddled as it is profound.

The muddle is in fact one of the charms of the book. The characters grow and evolve significantly as the story progresses, and Mike is not the only one to learn what it is to be human, though the conclusions will not be to everyone's liking.

heavenlyemma: I remember in one of Heinlein's books "Stranger in a Strange Land"... The Martians being a far superior race destroyed a world in our system, as the race was to insane and violent to be allowed to exist... hence the asteroid belt.

.... Oh they thought about Earth as well, but thanks to a kid they saw we had potential to grow and change.

(V): We are nothing to them they could wipe us out just like that if need be.

Vince Cable has called for highly paid executives in the private and public sectors to be named and shamed.

In his speech to the Lib Dem spring conference, the party's deputy leader demanded full disclosure of salaries more than £194,000 - what the PM earns.

The move would ensure "fat cats have nowhere to hide", he told delegates.

Publicly listed firms publish board members' pay but Mr Cable claimed some of the highest earners do not join boards to avoid full disclosure.

The Lib Dem Treasury spokesman, who has been one of the leading critics of excessive City salaries, criticised what he called "extreme, obscene, inequalities of reward".

But he extended criticism to public sector employees who expect bonuses whether they succeed or fail.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7929664.stm

heavenlyemma: I don't blame them for not being happy with us. We (well our leaders) play to many silly games, that could well be considered very kiddish.

One message they could be trying to send by the more dramatic first encounters recently is... "you ain't that big and powerful"

(V): Yeah, yeah, yeah I had a dream they are not happy chappies lol

heavenlyemma: Oh no they are not!! If they had wanted to do that they could have done it years ago.... But there again... some council could be looking at our case and whether they think we are sane enough to be part of the Galaxy.... as I guess as within a hundred years we might have developed the tech to start exploring.

(V): Didn't you know the aliens are coming from space to end it all as we can't look after the planet properly and they want to start over again.

heavenlyemma: Nahhhh according to Jewish history, they've been saved from the Romans which was that bit in Rev's being fulfilled, and Ghenna is long since gone. But as Pardes rules go, it still gives a message of the end of evil and hope for those suffering through the awakening process.

Artful Dodger: It's an open board, I'll say my opinion if feel so. There is nothing illegal about that... I mean, if being opinionated was illegal.... How many politicians would still have a job.

(V): Yet!!

(V):Stay out of the conversations if you're going to be dishonest. 

Artful Dodger: Chill dude, it ain't the end of the world.

"It's a fact that you do this to me and it's also a fact that you do this with others."

Blimey.. a fact? ... if you say so.

(V): Why don't you just admit that you made a false statement and get it over with.  Saying Fox is the most trusted and that "I don't get my news from Fox" are two different things.  I've clarified this for you if you would care to read it and try to honestly understand it instead of trying to be clever (which you're not). 

And I couldn't care less if you don't pay attention to what I said about you making false statements.  It's a fact that you do this to me and it's also a fact that you do this with others. 

Artful Dodger: I think it was you said Fox was your most trusted source, either that or that Fox news is the most trusted or should be in America.

As usual I am making a false statement.. That's an opinion from a person on the other side of the political spectrum... I hope you don't mind that I don't pay any attention to such a comment.