this is a board that talks about issues concerning animals...your own pets as well as animal rights,alerts,bills before congress that need our attention.This is a family board but as abuse cases may be posted it may not always be for the sensitive readers.Please be kind to each other,thanks!
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srnity: hmmm,thought I replied to your post,lol...the morning shifts kill me,must not have hit the send button,LOL....good for you for calling!! It is a start,your right!!
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Ewe: That was a good article that you posted...and it applies to ALL dogs..NOT just Pits.A dog,is a dog,is a dog.They are ALL animals,they are ALL capible (even poodles) of fighting,biting (I think the worst bites I have gotten were those darned ankle biters,lol....weinerdogs LOVED getting me)
My GSD's are also bred to withstand pain and not back down until the job is done..I have no doubt in my mind that Damien would die to save me.He is a trained protection dog and THAT is what he is trained for.He comes from sound and stable breeding and a bloodline that was bred FOR the stability.
The Dalmatian that is my profile pic...we had $100,000 worth of insurance on HIM because of how aggressive he was.He didn't care who or what you were..he WOULD attack you,and attack you to kill you,unprovoked.We knew this and we took precautions to NOT allow this to happen..we were RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS that didn't allow the dog to RUN AROUND THE NIEGHBORHOOD,or let strangers aproach him (although he LOVED his vet...go figure that one out,LMAO!!) He was very badly bred (I'm sure inbred without a care to the dogs themselves...their in lies the HUGH difference between a good breeder that keeps bloodlines seperate,and will NOT breed an unsound dog and a backyard..oh he's an ACK bloodline breeder) and he wasn't well socialized when we got him.
The comment about pits wanting to fight other dogs is dead on target..THAT is why you must be responsible about owning them.It is important to seperate ANY dogs when they are unsupervised..people get on each others nerves..so do dogs..we just don't usually fight it out like they do (unless your my nieghbors on either side of me...then ya fight with each other )
I would never EVER leave ANY dog alone with a kid either..they again...THEY ARE DOGS!! To hold an ENTIRE breed responsible is ridiculious.The BREEDERS and THE OWNERS MUST BE HELD RESPONSIBLE...Not only do laws NEED to be in place for the owners the fight and abuse them but for the breeders that run these mills or just keep pumpin out the pups strictly for fighting.But the thing is...ok..so they can't get a pit in the city without bringing alot of attention to themselves..so they will bring a dobe....that goes on for awhile and then what...ban them too?? so they bring in a Mastiff...so we ban them too....see how this snowballs?? THAT is why you must PUNISH the DEED NOT THE BREED.
Please take the time to read the links I have posted.
Ewe: I think you nailed it.The problem is in the training.The uproar in my city began when a number of children were badly maimed,and pitbull was the consistent factor in every instance.I think one child was actually killed.I'm a sucker for any dog,and I'm sure if I saw a tail wagging pitbull I'd want to play with it.
Most people, who are unfamiliar with the American Pit Bull Terrier, falsely believe that they are dangerous dogs. Unfortunately, Pit Bulls have a bad reputation because of some mean people who have abused their dogs and trained them to be aggressive. Pit Bulls are actually very stable, intelligent, and highly trainable. They are strong athletic dogs, and they require a guardian who is responsible and will give them plenty of exercise and training. They are very loving and loyal and make excellent animal companions.
Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs. The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California. Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard-working Search-and-Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California. They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff. In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.
Petey, the faithful dog on the TV show, The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull. He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone. He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.
There are quite a few celebrities who have Pit Bulls as members of their family including: Rosie Perez, The Crocodile Hunter, Judd Nelson, Usher, Alicia Silverstone, Cassandra Creech, Sinbad, John Stuart, Amy Jo Johnson, Linda Blair, Vin Diesel, and Bernadette Peters.
Pit Bulls are heroes! America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby. He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House. The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela. She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California. A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four-year-old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida. Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.
Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!
-Is it true that Pit Bulls can lock their jaw? The infamous locking jaw is a myth. The American Pit Bull Terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog. All dogs are from the same species and none have locking jaws. Dr. I Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, "To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of 'pounds per square inch' can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data." Furthermore, Dr. Brisbin states, "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog. There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of 'locking mechanism' unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier."
-Are Pit Bulls naturally aggressive towards humans? While many Pit Bulls do tend to be aggressive towards other DOGS (as are most terriers), the normal, well raised Pit Bull has NO human-aggressive tendencies! In fact, human-aggression was actually bred out of the breed. The majority of Pit Bulls are affectionate, intelligent, trainable dogs. In fact, the highest obedience trial record of all time is held by an American Pit Bull Terrier named Maddy!
-Can Pit Bulls "turn" on people? In fact, no breed of dog does. Dog aggression is nearly always preceded by some kind of warning, and there is always a reason behind the attack. However, many inexperienced owners do not recognize the dog's behavior as aggression, or refuse to acknowledge it as a warning sign. The only exception I can think of is Springer Rage, a rare and controversial neurological condition that manifests itself as a spontaneous attack, followed by confusion, and then a return to normal behavior. Pit Bulls are NOT prone to this condition. There are individual dogs of any breed that may be more aggressive to others.
Pit bulls are famous, in circles of knowledgeable dog people, for the love and loyalty they bestow on anyone who shows them a smidgen of kindness. --Linda Wilson-Fuoco, journalist
In my opinion, Pit bulls are the least likely to be human aggressive. On the whole, you have to do a lot of work to make them aggressive to people. --Sue Frisch, Dessin Animal Shelter manager
Pit bulls are especially good at pleasing people since they are strong and smart, they learn quickly and they are very adaptable." -- Rob Mullin, dog trainer, owner, "K-9 Wizard & Co." Trumbell, Connecticut
By Sonnet Dashevskaya - Spindletop Pit Bull Refuge, Austin branch
Sources: The Chako Rescue Association for the American Pit Bull Terrier Debby Wolfinsohn's The Pit Bull Press Denna's Pit Bull Page J. Balsam's Friends Of Terriers Website The American Pit Bull Terrier Speaks... Good Dog! by Cline and Martindale
anastasia: Sorry but I dont agree! The genetic breeding of a pitbull is for fighting....even if the dog hasnt been trained that way its in its genetic make up, thats the way it is. I think they are lovely looking dogs & Im sure there are plenty of that breed that have lovely temperaments but over all it cant be trusted
I think that the difference for me is that of all the dogs I've shared my life with thus far, most (if not all, they were all taken home from shelters) were and are capable of biting a human, but I've never had a dog in my life that I ever wondered whether they had it in them to actually try to kill. Pitbulls are just as sweet as any other breed, but I'd never take one home, just because of what they can (and sometimes will) do
They ARE beautiful dogs that are capable of giving much affection and love - - - but, all in all, they are also capable of killing a human if they so wished to - - - for that reason alone, I'd rather they were banned where I live for the sheer possibility that I wouldn't want my own dog to be killed by one. Yes, any dog can and will fight (mine included), but not to death. I'm sorry, but Pit Bulls kill, it happens even when they aren't "trained" to do so, I don't see the breed as a "pet", maybe they should be classified as a "guard dog" if people really, really have a need to own one?
That is anincorrect staement...no more true then saying all GSD's are police dogs.ANY DOG CAN AND WILL FIGHT if provocted OR trained to do so...THIS is the type of ignorance (I am not calling you ignorant Ewe,lol..PLEASE DON NOT TAKE OFFENSE from that) what I mean is that by you stating that "Regardless if that dog had always been friendly,the dog had been bred to fight!!" Is just plain wrong.I will post some links to therapy dogs that are pis that have NEVER been faught.PEOPLE fight the dog against the dog...the dog doesn't fight itself.
If people wouldnt breed dogs like the Pit Bull in the first place none of these problems would happen! All dogs originate from the wolf, yet look how different all the breeds are!
I have two small kids & I wouldnt trust a Pit Bull any where near them, regardless if that dog had always been friendly, the dog has been bred to fight!!
I love & respect all animals...it really isnt the Pit Bulls fault but I think the breed should be banned!!
I did the test & I got it right...but I think that was a lucky guess!
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: I understand what you are saying, but as Jason has just mentioned. No its not the dogs fault its the BREEDERS FAULT!
Pit Bulls can live peacefully with other dogs and animals. However, the Pit Bull has historically been bred to take down large animals. Early and continual socialization can help a Pit Bull be more animal friendly. Genetics, however, play an important role in how the dog will respond to other dogs and animals.
A Pit Bull that will fight another dog if unattended is a normal Pit Bull. Even if a Pit Bull does not start the fight, it has the potential to seriously injure or kill a dog once in the fight.
The Pit Bull has been bred to not back down and withstand pain until the goal is met. This quality does not carry true in all Pit Bulls, but it is safe to assume it is a potential in any Pit Bull in order to avoid unnecessary problems.
Pit Bulls have a late maturity, and a Pit Bull that was dog friendly at 7 months old may suddenly show signs of intolerance of unfamiliar dogs around two years old. Spaying and neutering the dog may help to prevent "turning on" the genetic urge to fight another dog.
All dog fights are preventable, however. Socialize a Pit Bull slowly with new dogs, and never let them play unattended. Remove items such as toys and food bowls to avoid stress.
Pit Bulls can live happily with other pets; if not left unattended. Even the "best of friends" can fight, and the outcome may be tragic. This can be true for dogs that have been together for years. Often, after the first serious fight, relations between the dogs are never the same.
Keeping that first fight from happening is a great way to ensure peaceful relations for the long run. If there is a multiple-dog household, it is important to separate the dogs when there is no one home.
Many people use crates for short times, put dogs into separate rooms, use kennels, or have outdoor areas set up for separation that are safe and secure. Pit Bulls can get along wonderfully with animals like cats, rabbits, and ferrets, but for safety's sake, never leave them alone together.
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: well here they was banned because of the power they have in thier bite which as i can gather is much worse than a rotty or any other powerfull dog , i dont know any stats but i have seen time and time again (in the news ) attacks on people witrh this type of breed and breeds that have been crossed very closely so as to avoid the law . we have people on our estates that walk round with them as some sort of status thing (they know thier dog will fight it out with any other dog ) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2499649.stm
this story is from last new years day i believe http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6229715.stm
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: Pedophiles have been known to escape with less punishment,but I understand your point.
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jason: I just really can not understand why in this decade we would decide to go after the dog as a whole and not the people fighting them and abusing them.
Once,when I was working at the humane hospital...a Rott came in...well,the body of a Rott came in..if I remember corectly he was like 50 pounds or something like that..had been abused,you could tell,and I don't mean just being starved to death.The guy was fined $500.00 and told he was never allowed to own another dog...huh!!??!! THAT was his punishment!!!!
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: as far as i understand here in the uk APBT have been one of four breeds banned since 1991 but as the test shows alot look alike and people are still having them taken away in this country even now .
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Сделано для anastasia (14. Сентября 2007, 03:04:35)
Jason: Who else besides Tuesday took that test?? It will show how much people really cannot identifly the "true APBT" The city I live near also has clumped together the pitbull/pitbull type into one lump...I don't understand how in 2007 we can still have witch hunts.
I was once biten by a kid...should we ban them too???
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jim Dandy: wow , that would be a shame as there seems quite a few pit bull types of breeds
Субъект: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jason: My take,is that it covers any variation of pit bull.
Субъект: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jim Dandy: which dog is banned ? , i did think it was the american pit bull , but in your post it says not , now im confused .
Well, they've definately been contacted by someone with reference to keeping their dog in a crate/pen for hours and hours on end. They aren't doing it anymore, he's now free to roam their house all day (I found this out thru someone else at work). As for anything else, all I know is that they still have their dog, and they really aren't saying much to me this past week (probably because they wonder if I'm the one who called) - but at least he's not laying in a cage with no food or water all day anymore - it's a start
Tuesday: I'm not sure about the exsiting pits in the city....they may be grandfatherd or they may be forced to rehome or put them down.You should not be skittish around a dog just because it is a pit..I am going to find a website and they have a test on there to see if you can identify the true pitbull...I have been around dogs for years and years.....worked at animal hospitals and humane depts..train with them and it took me 3 try to identify the TRUE pitbull.
anastasia: You know how I feel about animals and I have had to defend my choice in Prince since I got him. Oh heavens no not a rottweiler and he is as sweet as they come. :) I agree some are not friendlybut I don't think that justifies a ban
A judge has upheld the constitutionality of Ontario's controversial ban on pit bulls, despite a challenge by a Toronto dog owner.
Although evidence on the danger posed by pit bulls is inconclusive, the provincial Legislature had a "reasoned apprehension of harm" when it chose to target all such dogs, Justice Thea Herman said in her judgement, released yesterday.
The Superior Court judge ruled that the means the provincial government chose to protect the public were not disproportionate and therefore not unconstitutional, as had been argued last May by lawyer Clayton Ruby, on behalf of dog owner Catherine Cochrane.
"Dog ownership is not a right," Herman said.
In the absence of conclusive data, legislators are entitled to err on the side of safety, she said.
"There is no doubt that individuals in Ontario have been seriously injured by dogs that were identified as pit bulls."
However, Herman narrowed the province's wide definition of pit bulls. She ruled it unconstitutional to include dogs that are not Staffordshire bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers or American pit bull terriers, or those substantially similar in appearance.
She also ruled it unconstitutional to declare a dog a pit bull on the basis of a document from a veterinarian, as this "offends trial fairness and the right to be presumed innocent."
Under the contested amendments to the Dog Owner's Liability Act, violators are subject to a maximum penalty of $10,000 and six months in jail.
In a news release, Ruby declared partial victory, but vowed to appeal.
"These are steps in the right direction, but they are not going far enough," Caroline Wawzonek, Ruby's co-counsel, told the Star.
But a spokesperson for Attorney General Michael Bryant stated that all but two out of 169 provisions in the amended legislation remained unaffected by the judge's decision.
Under the law, Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
"People should continue to leash and muzzle their pit bulls; pit bulls are banned in Ontario, and that has been upheld by the Ontario Superior Court," Bryant told reporters.
Here in the city I live,they are getting ready to put a ban on pitbulls.You all know that I do not own one,I have GSD's.The point is tho that I don't think the breed should be the target..the numbnuts that FIGHT the dogs need to be dealt with! My friend and I are getting ready to submit a letter into our local paper protesting this act against pits. It will start with them and then what....Let's ban Dobes,and then Rotts,and then hey...how about GSD's because they are all vicious animals.And the lab next door looks a bit shady...ban them too!!People are ignorant about the pit breed.They are wonderful therapy dogs..HELEN KELLER OWNED ONE...A pit that was resuced from a freezer,almost dead now has 30 MILLION dollars worth of DRUG BUSTS to his name...One mother watched as her normally calm pit run full speed at her lil daughter and plowed into her,knocking the little girl roughly to the ground...ONLY TO SEE THE DOG TAKE A BITE FROM A RATTLESNAKE that was about to attack the baby.
PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE...research this breed..get facts,stats and info on the dogs and help STOP the banning of the dogs (most "pitts" that are involved with attacks are not really pitts,they are mixed breeds) Pits outscore alot of other breeds on the ATTS.Pitts are know as a "nannydog" in England because of their devotion to children.FIGHTING pits are actaully not normally aggressive to humans..they are bred to be aggressive towards other dogs..A Pit in the ring that is aggressive to a human will be put down at once (not that I believe in fighting....but the point in that statement is that they are not bred to be human aggressive even in aweful circumstances like that)
ANY DOG CAN AND WILL BITE IF THEY ARE THREATEND,TEASED,ABUSED,TAUNTED,
PLEASE help save this wonderful and misunderstood animal..even if you are not a fan of the dog...do it and yourself a favor and read all you can about it..I am not saying every pit is a freindly one,just like not every Lab,GSD,poodle,hounddog,etc,etc are going to run up and kiss you all over either..but they are not all the evil dogs that people think they are.
wetware: Oh dear! In that case I can certainly see why you trim their claws! How did the vet take getting the scratch?
LOL thats brilliant!!I can just imagine them, it conjured up a great mental picture I love Ikea! They have some lovely rugs, but I bet they didnt realise their rugs double up as posh scratching posts!
Ewe: I would definitely clip one of the before going for a visit to the vet. Two of them are perfect patients, but one is not. She's strong, and cut the doc pretty badly when being given an injection. I'll also trim their dew claws, which can come pretty close to growing round in a circle. Might trim them if I see them chewing on their nails, too.
But lately, there's been less need for trimming, because of a happy accident. They finally stopped shredding my nice furniture almost completely once I brought home a rug bought on sale from Ikea. This certainly wasn't my plan, but all three of them love sinking their claws into it--especially the underside of it for some reason. It gets 99% of their scratching attention, and I will happily sacrifice another rug just like it next time I find them on sale. Isn't that the craziest thing? I keep it rolled up, with the underside out--and they're absolutely loving it to pieces...
Rose: Ahhh right I see! My two never used to fight with each other. Now I only have the one. Yes they can do alot of damage with those claws if they are fighting & with you having so many rescues I bet there is a few fights from time to time. I think I would do the same as you in that case.
Yes the claws have a vein running in them, same with dogs....one time when I took my dog to the doggie parlour for a spruce up, fur & claw trim, they cut one claw too short & it wouldnt stop bleeding! Can be dangerous!
Ewe: I clip my cats so they dont scratch each others eyes out bascially.. I have them pretty much trained not to scratch the furniture and they have many scratching posts around the house that hubby made for them. But every so often one wants to dominate and will start swinging at another. This way I know there wont be major damage to any other cat. most get used to the clipping in time and just sit and patiently wait until I am done. Only the front paws and I dont clip their dew claws. It just takes the really sharp pointy part off. You have to be careful when you clip. I have a vet teach me how so I dont clip too short. That would really hurt!
wetware: hehehe yes that works for my two small children also! I dont clip my cats nails...just wondering why you do that? Is it because they are scratching your furniture?
wetware: Fantastic idea. I have a hard time clipping the nails on 2 of mine..( they cry and pull back their paws just when I try to clip lol) So I will try it b4 feeding time! Woohoo... very wise.
Ewe: At least this works for me: one of the doesn't much like being brushed--especially near her backside. But if I brush her just before one of the designated feeding times, I can pretty much do whatever needs to be done--brushing, nail-clipping, etc.--because she's got just one thing on her mind--food! She's so focused that she seems to forget just how much she dislikes what's being done to her :-)
Rose: Maybe thats it then??? My cats love to be brushed! So maybe Im collecting most of the excess fur? They are outdoors alot too. I think central heating makes them molt more than necessary too.
LOL medievil I can see your angry face under that suit of armour!! I agree, I would find it hard to control myself too
Ewe: Right, not all my short hairs have full balls. I think it attributes to how clean some are. We try to brush each one but with this many its very hard and some just do not like to be brushed. Some are super clean and always licking others only clean themselves when they have to. We nick named one kitty Pigpen cuz she doesnt clean herself too often! Must be in her teen years! The cats that are super duper clean have the odd fur ball but it isnt daily or even weekly. The long hair kitty has them at least once a week. I have a Maine Coon cat with really long hair and she never has fur balls so her digestion must be top notch. AND does she shed! When I brush her I take clumps out every time. She has very different fur than the others.
You're right about the cruel people. I'm sure if I ever got my hands on someone that abused an animal I would go medievil on them. lol
Rose: So not all of your short haired cats get fur balls? The ones that do, is it just when they are molting?
Aww its so nice you are giving her a loving home. Yes its truely unbelieveable how some people treat animals, I find it hard to control my temper & Im a pacifist!!
Ewe: Some of my short hairs do have the odd fur balls but nothing like the long haired one I have. She's a beautiful cat but we have to shave her 'beard'. If not she licks it so much that she eats too much fur. This beauty was a rescue that was abandoned in the rough part of town. She has many issues so we cant adopt her out. She was horrible treated and likely beaten or kicked by a previous owner and still bites and scratches at times. Lost her Canines from being kicked no doubt. Has taken me since November last year to get her to trust me enough to give her a small rub on the head. I will never understand how people can be so cruel to other living creatures.
Isnt that the thing about hair balls....the fact cats are bred to have long fur when naturally they wouldnt have? All the cats I have ever had have been short haired & never had fur balls or is it that my cats just were lucky?
Субъект: Re: A woman holds a Sphynx cat during a local cat show in Almaty September 9, 2007
Rose: I try my best. Plenty of brushing for my girls--one of them in particular. Part of their food is a special hairball formula, plus they get occasional treats to help deal with that.
The one who has the worst problem is a funny eater, too. She eats very quickly, and would be at least a kilo heavier if I didn't monitor her food intake and watch to make sure she doesn't poach from the slower eaters around here. She'd love finding some scraps or a variety of other cat foods and snacks, but doesn't tolerate changes in her diet at all! Even new bags of her ordinary food are sometimes enough to upset her delicate tummy...amazing.
Субъект: Re: A woman holds a Sphynx cat during a local cat show in Almaty September 9, 2007
wetware: LOL right on that one.. I've read up on hairballs the last while as I have one that has them a lot. If we brush her often (she is long haired) it helps cut back on the furball prezzies.. There also is food out now specially for cats who get them a lot. Interesting reading up on hairballs and why some cats have them often and others don't.