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14. Июля 2009, 19:47:34
Czuch 
Субъект: Re:the higher ground that we claim to have is that we dont target and kill innocent civilians and we dont torture any civilians who are innocent!
(V): how do you know they are conscious? To mutilate and torture an unborn child they have to be conscious


Really? how do you know they are not conscious?


So, if I take a terrorist and render him unconscious, then cut off his hand, that is not torture or mutilation??? Really?

14. Июля 2009, 19:45:43
Czuch 
Субъект: Re:the higher ground that we claim to have is that we dont target and kill innocent civilians and we dont torture any civilians who are innocent!
(V): your gov agencies just support people that do in the name of democracy


Really??? Name the most recent civillian that the US government supported to be tortured????

14. Июля 2009, 19:44:40
Mort 
Субъект: Re:how is waterboarding torture
Artful Dodger: What!!! You consider repeatedly half drowning someone a nice thing??

If you do.. explain how!

14. Июля 2009, 19:43:28
Mort 
Субъект: Re:the higher ground that we claim to have is that we dont target and kill innocent civilians and we dont torture any civilians who are innocent!
Czuch: No.. your gov agencies just support people that do in the name of democracy!!

As to unborn babies... how do you know they are conscious? To mutilate and torture an unborn child they have to be conscious, and much of the arguments are based on old ideas from Judaism that the sperm is the carrier of life.

Is that enough explanation?

14. Июля 2009, 19:26:41
Czuch 
Субъект: Re:
(V): Some archaic old law based on misconceptions of how a baby is made???




explain the misconception of how a baby is made then? I mean, you can obviously accept that we are an evolving creature from the point of birth into adulthood and beyond, right? But you cannot accept that we are the same evolving creature from the point of our conception?

The notion that a woman has a right to do with her own body as she wishes, i will not argue, and so too for a man..... but an unborn child is not a part of a womans own body, the womans body is simply the incubator for the unborn baby....


how can a sperm, injected into a woman by a man, be then called part of the womans body???

If I pick up some diamonds from your table and swallow them, are those diamonds now part of my body, which I have the right to do with them as i please????

14. Июля 2009, 19:23:03
Papa Zoom 
Субъект: Re:
(V): how is waterboarding torture

14. Июля 2009, 19:17:27
Czuch 
Субъект: Re:
(V): but torturing them rather screws up the higher ground that those interning the terrorists are claiming to have.


Thats not true... the higher ground that we claim to have is that we dont target and kill innocent civilians and we dont torture any civilians who are innocent!

You dont think it is torture to make a man walk to a chair and be tied down in it for the purpose of injecting him with something to cause his death?

Where is the nobility in that?

You dont think it is torture to mutilate an unborn baby, like making an omelet?

Where is the nobility in that?

14. Июля 2009, 18:55:17
Mort 
Субъект: Re:
Czuch: why are abortions no better then terrorists?? Some archaic old law based on misconceptions of how a baby is made???

As for terrorists, sure they ought to be caught and tried... but torturing them rather screws up the higher ground that those interning the terrorists are claiming to have. You see it's called terrorising a prisoner.

Where is the nobility in that?

14. Июля 2009, 18:51:46
Mort 
Субъект: Re: In Great Britain food gets even poisoned...
gogul: No. It doesn't. That would be totally illegal, and anyone caught poisoning waste food would be subject to criminal prosecution.

Yes alot of food is wasted, this is due to food safety and that much food is imported out of season to the UK's own calender, but at the same time if you shop wisely you can use the sell by system to your advantage. It is possible to buy food at a fraction of the original selling price!! All then you need (if you are going to consume it that day) is a freezer. Especially handy with meat products

And there are some stores that offer to sell to charitable people of the 'soup kitchen' ilk at a very reduced cost rather then waste it.

I do admit some of the 'sell by' dates are stupid in regards to products that never go off (eg honey) ... but if you are friendly (like we are) with local stores, then they'll just bung it to you with your regular goods rather than it be wasted... free of charge!

14. Июля 2009, 16:21:38
Czuch 
Субъект: Re:
gogul: Being poor is not the cause of famine...

14. Июля 2009, 16:16:25
gogul 
Lets challenge something completely new. Like the so called food suppliers, who make everything worse on this Planet, just to be able to buy 100 cars at once. Nestle, a prominent company among these.

Let me remind you that in our part of the world food gets thrown away, enough to feed the world population 7 times. In Great Britain food gets even poisoned, so that poor people can't take it out of the trash. No, the Brits prefer to criminalise the poor than to offer solutions to the problems.

14. Июля 2009, 16:14:30
Czuch 
Субъект: Re:
gogul: no i do not...

14. Июля 2009, 15:37:00
gogul 
Субъект: Re:
Czuch: You know enough to make tha difference between criminals and workers in the high society? www.amcham.ch/leadership

14. Июля 2009, 15:05:17
Czuch 
Субъект: Re:
Tuesday: I saw video of waterboarding. Bush and Cheney are no better than the terrorists.


Terrorism is an act to purposely attack INNOCENT civilians....

Waterboarding these non civilian terrorist, you cant see as even remotely different?

We allow NON INNOCENT people here be killed for their crimes, legally put to death... but you dont like that we waterboard some one who has intentionally attacked innocent civilians?

We allow women the right to kill their unborn children, but you cant stand us allowing a terrorist to be waterboarded???


I saw a video of an abortion and anyone who has had one or who has supported the right to have them, are no better than the terrorists

14. Июля 2009, 14:22:43
gogul 
Субъект: Re:
Tuesday: I don't want to put in words what I feel for figures like these. But it is because of individuals like them and more I like to bath in hate, I too need to be alone at times. Hate or lots of alcohol, that keeps me alone and away from G.W.Bushs decade.

14. Июля 2009, 13:21:32
gogul 
And never ever in my life I hear a official American trying to define what Turkey is.

14. Июля 2009, 13:12:06
gogul 
To put it short: Mohammeds fight was the one against the Bizantine Empire. As it is Istambul today, Mohammed was successfull and the reformation of the Islam can be found about 100 years back in time. Anyone wants to challenge this thesis?

14. Июля 2009, 12:23:19
gogul 
Субъект: Re:
(V): Aha. It's not that we have nothing from and with the Muslim. For my blabla it would go to far to explain Castel del Monte to readers, but I do like it.

14. Июля 2009, 12:08:24
Mort 
Субъект: Re:
gogul: .. Interesting that many English laws (and as such all western law) derives from Islamic law... as entertained by John Makdisi in a 1999 law review.

14. Июля 2009, 12:02:02
gogul 
Субъект: Re:
(V): The Sharia is just another of these books that serve to scan and understand ugly minds.

14. Июля 2009, 11:59:17
Mort 
And from what I gather, it is not about a head hunt for Cheney, but about the secrecy of a program that some are saying that congress should have never been kept in the dark and as such were misled.

14. Июля 2009, 11:47:53
Mort 
Субъект: Re:
gogul: Which hell?? 4 types in the Bible. .....well at least in the original texts.

14. Июля 2009, 11:45:59
gogul 
Субъект: Re:
(V): I observe that it is the very choice of individuals to face hell [soon]. I'd go with the saying that they don't know what they do, and a slap will make the gate to heaven for some of the terrorists.

14. Июля 2009, 11:40:41
Mort 
Субъект: Re:
gogul: Ahhh so you mean the misinterpretation of certain verses regarding what happens to those who engage in suicide bombing and other activities involving attacks on civilians.

IE... they won't go to heaven for suicide attacks, and attacks on civilians is forbidden....

Like with all religious books it's a matter of interpretation.
... And those Muslims who pervert the Qur'an will face the same problem that those who pervert Christianity or any other religion.

... Separation.

14. Июля 2009, 11:32:01
gogul 
Субъект: Re:
(V): The Sharia is the same for the Muslims as the Malleus Maleficarum for Europeans. It doesn't take much to understand that, and Muslims better stop expecting that Allah is happy with them. For living in the past and not in the present, it's a Muslims choice to arrive in the present here and now. Yes, I consider the Qur'an as a nice piece of literature, that's it. If it can teach the Muslims decency, so be it.

14. Июля 2009, 11:05:49
Mort 
Субъект: Re:
gogul: ??? fairy tale???

14. Июля 2009, 11:04:49
gogul 
Субъект: Re:
(V): Honestly, who cares about the desert jokes bin bum laden and the fairy tale they are reading their lessons from.

14. Июля 2009, 10:41:19
Mort 
Субъект: Re:
gogul: Lots of people want Bin caught... unfortunately the USA started the Iraq war as a distraction.

.... was it due to Bin's family calling in a favour?? Who knows!!

14. Июля 2009, 10:37:31
gogul 
There is a huge problem with trickle UP in Basel Switzerland. The rich here (nasty companies and the government) make to silver what is holy to the youthculture, and this with spiteful stubbornness since 20 years. What a joke to know these people still sitting on their chairs while everybody knows that they are no more able to watch them self in the mirror. If that continues, burrying will be just a matter of hygienics.

14. Июля 2009, 10:29:12
gogul 
Some pseudo clever jokeheads want to hunt Cheney now for trying to eliminate some of the top terrorheads? I for my part want to see Bidens head r...d off

14. Июля 2009, 09:10:43
Mort 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
Сделано для Mort (14. Июля 2009, 09:11:01)
Czuch: Study economics, you might see why I see a difference.

... It'll end all those question marks

14. Июля 2009, 04:07:04
Bernice 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
Сделано для Bernice (14. Июля 2009, 04:07:42)
Czuch:

you are all over the map,

could that be called evasive action?</i>

14. Июля 2009, 03:05:31
Czuch 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
(V): And we are not talking about trickle down, we are talking of uncontrolled collapse.




R u kidding me?? really???

Thats exactly what trickle down is.... when big companies support smaller companies who support their employees who again support other small businesses... and if the big guy falls, so too does the rest of them!


That is exactly what trickle down is!!!!!

and when Raygun was doing it, you said it was bogus, but now when bam is at it, well all of a sudden you think it is the best economic policy ever invented?????

14. Июля 2009, 03:00:54
Czuch 
Субъект: Re: if trickle down economics is not good, it doesnt work.
Tuesday: So u 2 are not in favor of bailouts for the big dawgs because if they dont the little dawg will die too?

13. Июля 2009, 21:00:53
Ferris Bueller 
Субъект: if trickle down economics is not good, it doesnt work.
Czuch:  Trickle down usually means trickle on.

13. Июля 2009, 20:24:05
Mort 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
Czuch: I'm not others.. I'm just me. And we are not talking about trickle down, we are talking of uncontrolled collapse.

Don't you know the difference

13. Июля 2009, 18:57:46
Czuch 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
(V): Anywho... my only point was originally, that when I used to complain that you cant take from the rich to give to the poor because we need the rich to create jobs for the poor, all I heard from you and other like minded people was how wrong I was, that trickle down was all hog wash..... and now all I hear from you is how we cant let the big guys go down, because it will effect all of the poor people who make a living because of these big guys!


Its all a bunch of contradictory crap from you all... saying one thing when it conveniences you and saying the exact opposite now, because it conveniences you now!

13. Июля 2009, 18:51:15
Czuch 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
(V): it's a matter of economics and real life, rather then ideal models.


Well the problem I see with your way, is that now you bring too much subjectivity to the equation.

Who then decides what is too high or too low, maybe it is someone you agree with or maybe it is not anyway, its always a subjective call made by fallible and mortal humans, and you may like the decisions they are making right now, but how do you guarantee that will remain as such?

13. Июля 2009, 16:46:19
Mort 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
Czuch: it's the reasons why it's not good. I gave a hint by referring back to Pres Raygun.

Again... it's a matter of economics and real life, rather then ideal models.

and Btw.. if regs are in place no-one needs to micro manage from the government. As the auditors/accountants/lawyers by LAW will do it as part of the yearly accounts.

Do you understand that?

13. Июля 2009, 16:14:06
Czuch 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
(V): Why... boards, cycles, and other things like Madoff.


So, boards are bad, but you trust some government bean counter to make better choices for us then? ...and what if the bean counter is Bush, for example, and has his head in the butts of oil? Then do you still want the government to make the decisions about where to use trickle down and where to not use it?

You just get into too much trouble when you start trying to micro manage everything... of course the free market has its pitfalls.... like you said with a democracy, its only the best we have found so far, but I dont see anything that tells me that a free market economy isnt the best we have so far, or that a socialized, micro managed economy is any better

13. Июля 2009, 16:03:28
Czuch 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
(V): Trickle down..... Not good




Okay, now we are getting somewhere..... if trickle down economics is not good, it doesnt work, then why is it, in your opinion, something that will work in a bail out situation?

13. Июля 2009, 13:21:10
Mort 
Субъект: Re: Little People
Bernice: I don't know... I can't talk for everyone or know everyone... do you??

And btw..... If you are against state benefits then I suppose you are against state pensions??

If you are.... then are you for the re-introduction of work houses?

13. Июля 2009, 11:32:54
Bernice 
Субъект: Re: Little People
(V): Or do you feel Parents don't work in looking after kids

of course parents work in looking after kids......BUT....why cant the "bludgers" do what the average man- woman does that has a family.....go to work, earn money and stop bludging off the system.....there is way too much of it...

13. Июля 2009, 10:12:10
Mort 
Субъект: Re: Little People
Bernice: Bludge?? Those that are genuine, or those that are not? Those that are not get caught over here... But that are genuine....

... let's just say one lady looking after 3 kids found out that red tape had made her lose out for several years over a 'tick' in a small print box. Even though nowadays what she missed out on is automatically included. It's only because she was inspected that she found out what she was missing out on.

... The inspector said she deserved all the help she was due for the job she had to do.

You see you can be unemployed and still be working hard. Or do you feel Parents don't work in looking after kids?

13. Июля 2009, 10:02:02
Mort 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
Czuch: Trickle down..... Not good, it didn't work for Ronald Raygun

Why... boards, cycles, and other things like Madoff.

12. Июля 2009, 22:23:25
Bernice 
Субъект: Little People
It's in reference to those who just work for a living,

really??

well what do you call people who bludge off society and live off the Govt?.......Tiny wee people?

12. Июля 2009, 21:12:04
Czuch 
Субъект: Re: I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic
(V): Then where is your answer about trickle down economics? Its a simple question, yes you believe in and like the concept, or no you think it is a faulty economic policy?

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