(V): LOL Well, seeing as how I think with my brain, then I guess there is no point in... oh man, you really are a piece of work. LOL

By the way, when did you stop being "your mothers body" and start being something else... or are you still waiting for that to happen. LOL

Iamon lyme: I know all about Mormonism. The Mormons quit coming to my door. I always give them a hard time I guess. The last time they came to my door one of the Mormons swore at me. Then he told me I was pissing him off. I reminded him that he came to MY door uninvited and that he needed to remember that. I wasn't even being mean. I was just pointing out some of the inconsistencies in their claims.

Iamon lyme: The answer seems to be you have no respect for the woman. You only consider her a baby machine. Most of the rest was just mumbo jumbo made up bull.

I do like answers, just I like them from people who will answer straight rather than play spin games.

(V): You were the one who asked. If you don't like the answer, then ask someone who gives you an answer you do like.

I will tell you what I think, but I'm not here to tell you only what you want to hear. Talking to you has been like talking to one of those pre-progammed question/answer machines.

So tell me V, how do you figure ignoring my answer can in any way support your thesis? How does that work?

Iamon lyme: Wow... a straight forward reply seems to be out of the question for you.

Artful Dodger: "What's he asking? About Mormonism and Romney?"

lol I must have skipped over the Mormonism and Romney rants... I didn't read any of those.

Iamon lyme: Jules asked me a question? Could have fooled me. I've been skipping over his babble. What's he asking? About Mormonism and Romney?

(V): "No answer from Dan or Lamon lyme."

You didn't ask me, but since you obviously want my opinion...

My opinion is you only want an excuse to continue ragging on and on about religion. And since my answer would not involve religion, I cannot satisfy that desire. But if you could drop the inquisition mentality long enough to focus on the "It's a womans body" argument, I do have an answer for that.

First of all, I am not a woman. But I have cared for infants who are too helpless to help themselves. Tell me V, how many newborns do you think are not helpless, and able to survive without anyones help?

If I'm going about my business and grow weary of caring for one of these helpless little people, then I could use the same argument for leaving the little gubber by the side of the road to fend for itself. It's my body, and who has the right to tell me what to do with my body? My body is selfish and lazy, and tired of hauling this little crying and pooping bundle of joy everywhere I go.

The difference between a baby in the womb and a baby in my arms is apparently so vast, that it's probably incomprehensible for you to grasp the significance of "helplessness". So maybe you should try figuring this one out for yourself.

Or, you might try to find a pregnant woman who knows the difference between her own body and the body of the person she is carrying. But don't try telling her it's okay for her to kill that person, or she might bonk you on the head with her purse. Don't be that man... you know, the kind of man that lumps all women together and thinks he can say the exact same thing to any woman he crosses paths with.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes a position against abortion and holds that abortion is a form of killing. However, there are exceptions. According to a statement in the LDS library, "Some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth." The statement goes on to say, "Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer."[25]

Before 1980, the Southern Baptist Convention officially advocated for loosening of abortion restrictions.[16] During the 1971 and 1974 Southern Baptist Conventions, Southern Baptists were called upon "to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother."[16] W. Barry Garrett wrote in the Baptist Press, "Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the [Roe v. Wade] Supreme Court Decision."[16]

By 1980, conservative Protestant leaders became vocal in their opposition to legalized abortion,[17] and by the early 1990s Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition of America became a significant pro-life organization.[11] In 2005, Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, said that making abortion illegal is more important than any other issue.[18]

>>> So Conservative Christians... why the policy change?

So Rupert Murdoch thinks it's vital that naked pics of a Prince are printed on the front page of "The Sun"...

Isn't there a moral issue involved?

And still no Conservative from the US can answer one question.

What gives them the right to dictate to women what to do with their bodies. What gives them the right to dictate to couples what to do with their life.

What gives them the right to use a religious tool to say you should do this?

No answer from Dan or Lamon lyme.

Typical!!

rod03801: I wish I had his hair.

rod03801: "Bugged me that he wouldnt say [who] he was voting for in the primaries."

None of the other conservative talk show hosts would say either. In fact most of them said it's not their place to tell anyone who they should vote for, and rightly so.

I just had a funny thought. A liberal would probably say this is a part of the right wing's strategy, to get voters to believe it's actually up to them to elect our leaders. Which means it's up to them to decide who the leader will be. What a novel idea... instead of telling the voter what to do, leave it up to the voter to decide. Naaa, that can't be right... it's a right wing trick to get liberal voters to do the same. Those right wing extremists will try anything to steal this next election. LOL And you know what, it just might work. But maybe it's not too late for the liberals to counter this devious scheme by doing the same thing. Yeah, yeah... TWO can play at that game!

Artful Dodger: I listen to the last hour of it on my way home from work. He is the one conservative talk dude that makes sense to me. I watch him on tv rarely, only because I have other shows I like at the same time he is on. He is FAIR and smart. Bugged me that he wouldnt say he was voting for in the primaries. LOL.

rod03801: haha I follow him on Twitter. I listen to his radio show when I can

Artful Dodger: I'm weird. I'm not part of any of the social networks. I have an account on facebook that I never visit.

I've thought about joining Twitter, to be part of Sean Hannity's following. He's my hero!

rod03801: We're just being current. Ha! You should have seen Twitter over the last two days. Funny stuff and it was a hot time in the Twitter Town last night!

Artful Dodger: I think anyone who engages in it right now, is feeding into it though. I say switch it back to the RIGHT conversation. To what is important NOW. The whole abortion debate will be FOREVER. The economy is something that needs fixing NOW.

Ok, I'm being silly. This is just a discussion board on a game site.. LOL.. I think I'm frustrated because it is mirroring what is going on.

Libs, finish this sentence:

It's ok (morally justified) to kill a baby in the womb when...............

Iamon lyme: Dang it! I shouldn't have said "some." !!!

rod03801: The libs are tripping all over themselves trying to capitalize on Akin's recent comments.

The Col: No, I asked: 23. August 2012, 14:44:45
[Artful Dodger,
The Col: When is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

You answered with a question:
[The Col
Artful Dodger: Ending a pregnancy brought about by rape and incest is a good idea, no?
Reply (box)

I see all this debate on social issues as a distraction. I know on some level, that it IS important. But in the U.S. right now the CRUCIAL issue is the economy. The Libs are LOVING distractions such as this. Because the areas where we can definitely say the Anointed One has failed, is on the economy.
If we get 4 more years of his incompetence, (and the fools in Congress who support him) we will be in big trouble. Worse trouble than The Great Depression. We will be in the same if not worse shape than parts of Europe are in right now.

I can't wait for November. I look SO forward to voting. Only once though. Silly Libs. Only once.

Artful Dodger: "Some of the liberal arguments supporting abortion cross over deep into stupidville."

HA, you are wrong!! Gotcha! Can you cite even ONE example of a liberal argument that doesn't? I didn't think so!


it's about time I disagreed with you on something... but I knew if I waited long enough, you'd trip up.

"universal concept" On one planet???

I'd like to see affidavits from all other lifeforms on that.

Ok, I'll settle for those in the visible universe.

The Col: "...levels of maturity and insite..."

lol .. I rest my case.

The Col: Decency is a universal concept. So when it comes to justifying acting indecently you fall back on legality?

Seriously? That's your MO?

The Col: Women should be at home ideology!!

(V): And they wonder why such levels of maturity and insite has cost them the womens vote

Scientific thresholds -  survival chart of a developing fetus.

In COLOUR I'm afraid, not black and white... even some grey.

Artful Dodger: You still didn't answer if you are for or against abortions in these cases,I answered yours

Sex education is taught as standard at UK schools.

Some of the liberal arguments supporting abortion cross over deep into stupidville.

Iamon lyme: BTW, this is not an American based site

"They focus on these three reasons but rarely address such casual reasons as the woman simply doesn't want to look fat."

I would think that statistical figure is low.. as is the use of such low level statistics.

Iamon lyme: When it comes to the topic of abortion, the liberals don't like to answer direct questions. They like to control the argument and they like to ask specific questions which frame the argument and keeps it away from them having to answer anything directly. Pregnancy due to rape, incest, and where the life of the mother is in danger constitute a very lower percentage rate of all given reasons for abortions. They focus on these three reasons but rarely address such casual reasons as the woman simply doesn't want to look fat.

The Col: On the subject of Fetus survival I read...

"At 23 weeks there is a 25% chance of survival, and a 50% chance at 24 weeks, and the numbers increase from there. A baby born this early, however, has only a 12% chance of intact survival, which means that the baby will develop without any problems in the future, and this number also increases each week. At 28 weeks there is a much bigger chance of survival for the baby. I had a baby at 22 weeks and was told that there was nothing they could do for her, and she passed away two hours later. I was told that if she had been born at 23 weeks I would have had the option to try to do everything they could for her to live."

This is a woman speaking btw...

"There have been a couple of 20-21 weeker that have been born and survived, but most hospitals have policies these days which all but eliminate the possibility of life sustaining interventions prior to 23-25 weeks (usually 23 weeks)."

It seems the Doctors say life cannot exist outside the womb until 23 weeks with a reasonable chance of survival.

The baby then, can be independently alive. But ONLY with a great deal of support.

The Col: Mind your own obsession, Col. If this is the kind of talk that coats yer throat, do it in pms with someone who wants to hear it. But hey, whatever bloats yer goat... say whatever ya want, it's still a free country.

(V): Both FOX and MSNBC egg on their sides.They should be more aware of the rising temp

Iamon lyme: I hope you do it, better than you spell it

The Col: I've got relatives in Florida.. nice people.

If attitudes don't change and the media and interested parties stop playing games for profit.

It's happened before and destroyed empires in the process.

(V): I love the USA ,I travel there often my best friend is a Pennsylvania Republican , but I really don't see the collision course of the two parties ending well

The Col: Thanks for toxicity, but the masterbation and twigs n berries comments are getting old.

This attitude is further reflected in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, originally authored by Jefferson and championed by Madison, and guaranteeing that no one may be compelled to finance any religion or denomination.

... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.[26]


A ban on Abortion seems to be against US first amendment.

The Col: You haven't answered my original question. You only asked a question in return. We'll get to your questions after you've answered mine. It seems that your position is that abortion is wrong unless it's for the life of the mother or in the case of rape and incest. Is that your position? You oppose abortion in all other instances?

The Col: That would breaking the US constitution. They might as well bring back slavery, it's just as bad.

But, then again.. acts are as such referring to the legal fiction that present on a Birth Certificate, a legal entity for identification in the world of commerce.

It is not your name as stated under the Common Laws of England.