The Col: "...if the Democrats weren't so terrible messeging, and the Republicans weren't so good, the overwhelming scientific belief in climate change wouldn't even be an argument."


The Democrats have done a good enough job at getting their "message" across. Good enough to be able to profit from it.

If anything is an established fact, it's that the world goes through periods of global warming and global cooling. No one argues with that. But creating alarm over something that naturally happens, in order to gain some political or financial advantage, is something the Democrats have learned how to use.

If some slick shyster were able to create alarm over the changing seasons, and then push for increasing taxes to solve the problem, would you see anything wrong with that? That may sound like a silly example, and no one with a grain of sense would fall for it, but let's face it... a con man doesn't have to convince everyone. He only needs to convince enough people in order to get what he wants.

Whatever influence mans activities have had on the entire global environment is nothing compared to what nature herself has dished out. Polar bears survived the occasional period of global warming, and the spotted owl can survive without old growth forests. Is there really anything so amazing about that?

What is amazing is the distress people are willing to put themselves and others through just to gain some small transitory advantage over their fellow earthlings...

Iamon lyme: The only question I want to ask about this is, when did it become a standard practice of science that politics is able to confirm or disprove anything?

Excellent question,because if the Democrats weren't so terrible messeging, and the Republicans weren't so good, the overwhelming scientific belief in climate change wouldn't even be an argument.

The Col: "My comment of it being considered "gospel" was from the Republican perspective, not Democratic"

Yes, and I understood what you meant by "gospel". Nevertheless, I doubt either side would take the issue seriously even if it was promoted by a few Republicans.

It has only become a political issue because some politicians have made it one. It wasn't much of a scientific issue until it was mingled with politics

The only question I want to ask about this is, when did it become a standard practice of science that politics is able to confirm or disprove anything?

Iamon lyme: lol I love it! I should wear it to school.

Artful Dodger: Ah shoot! I went to go find another global warming pic, but all I got was this stupid hat<a/>

So children, what have we learned today?

*Well, for one, Professor Muller was not a total skeptic. He was 2/3's a believer in anthropogenic global warming long ago.

*Now he's gone all the way.

*His "turnaround" amounts to 33% as he was mostly there for years.

*He's written a book and likely he wants them to sell lots of them. The Left never allows the Right to get away with such a conflict of interest.

*Businesses whose livelihood is based on the need for anthropogenic global warming to be true pay Muller for his "expertise." So it's in his interest to hold to his latest view.

*This is a classic conflict of interest. Not to mention that Muller did NOT do a complete turn around as he was nearly 75% there from the start!

*---> Here’s is Prof. Richard Muller, a Berkeley physicist, toward the conclusion of his 2003 paper on global warming data:

“Let me be clear. My own reading of the literature and study of paleoclimate suggests strongly that carbon dioxide from burning of fossil fuels will prove to be the greatest pollutant of human history. It is likely to have severe and detrimental effects on global climate.”"


OK, class dismissed!

Iamon lyme:" Nope. It would recieve the same attention Democrats give to "birthers".

But you are right about it being a political game. Too bad we will never know what the reaction would be, because that is something I would bet on... easy money."

I prefer to frame it as "I'll bet" I guess you know the future
My comment of it being considered "gospel" was from the Republican perspective, not Democratic

Artful Dodger: Hey, that's the al gore link I put up! Now I'll have to go find another one!

[]_ [[]] []_

Muller not a skeptic in 2003, either

From EthicsAlarms.com:

Here’s is Prof. Richard Muller, a Berkeley physicist, toward the conclusion of his 2003 paper on global warming data:

“Let me be clear. My own reading of the literature and study of
paleoclimate suggests strongly that carbon dioxide from burning of
fossil fuels will prove to be the greatest pollutant of human history.
It is likely to have severe and detrimental effects on global climate.”

Earlier, it was pointed out that in 2006 Muller rated himself as two-thirds alarmist.

Richard Muller: Climate Profiteer

Remember Richard Muller, the Berkeley scientist who last
October declared climate skepticism to be over? Like other alarmists, he
is also a climate profiteer.<span>

In the Wall Street Journal commentary that rocketed Muller into the media spotlight, he wrote:

But now let me explain why you should not be a [global warming] skeptic, at least not any longer.

Muller’s tagline disclosed:

Mr. Muller is a professor of physics at the University of
California, Berkeley, and the author of “Physics for Future Presidents”
(W.W. Norton & Co., 2008).

But Dr. Muller is no mere Berkeley professor.

He is in fact president and chief scientist of Muller & Associates, which is:

Helping businesses make profitable investments in alternative energy

and

Helping governments build energy strategies that are right for them.

OPPS

It’s a scientist’s duty to be properly skeptical, says Berkeley physics Prof. Richard Muller, who still says that much, if not most, of what is attributed to climate change is speculative, exaggerated or just plain wrong. He has analyzed some of the most alarmist claims and his skepticism about them hasn’t changed.

What has changed is his doubt about the very existence of global warming. And he is now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause, he says.

But Hurricane Katrina cannot be attributed to global warming, he notes. The number of hurricanes hitting the United States has been going down, not up; likewise for intense tornadoes. Polar bears aren’t dying from receding ice, and the Himalayan glaciers aren’t going to melt by 2035. And it’s possible that we are currently no warmer than we were a thousand years ago, during the “Medieval Warm Period” or “Medieval Optimum,” an interval of warm conditions known from historical records and indirect evidence like tree rings. And the recent warm spell in the United States happens to be more than offset by cooling elsewhere in the world, so its link to “global” warming is weaker than tenuous.

So much for a total turnaround.  And what's so funny is how Muller was vilified, called a liar and a lunatic BEFORE his conversion but now he's a genius.  The Left wants it both ways. 


Besides, he's one guy with an opinion.  There have been climate scientists who were advocates of anthropogenic global warming but are now full on skeptics.  What about those guys?  hmmmmmmmm?    The Left loves to utilize the appeal to authority fallacy when it suits their point.  That other "experts" disagree with Muller doesn't seem to matter to their bottom line.

Iamon lyme: Are you stereotyping me?

Iamon lyme: http://www.ihudaif.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/algore.jpg

(V): Oh my goodness no, I would never want you to be muzzled in any way! I look forward to your... I know there's a word for what you do, but for the moment it escapes me.

You are the classic champion of liberal ideals...

Iamon lyme: Hey.. since when have I been limited to one word answers!! Is this a new conservative board policy restricting freedom of speech for liberals yet again!!

Where is my memo??

(V): A simple 'yes' would have been sufficient, but thanks for the confirmation.

Iamon lyme: Jesus attacked those who abused devout people.

N' as "no rebuttal".. Is that why Al Gore keeps being used. He's not a good example, like those 'preachers' who take some families entire life savings.

.. If I really did want to attack a religion.. I'd start on Scientology.

(V): Is attacking religion always your rebuttal when you have no rebuttal?

The Col: "I'll bet if a Republican rang the alarm on global warming it would considered gospel"

Nope. It would recieve the same attention Democrats give to "birthers".

But you are right about it being a political game. Too bad we will never know what the reaction would be, because that is something I would bet on... easy money.

Iamon lyme: It's pretty silly that the climate has become a political thing.I'll bet if a Republican rang the alarm on global warming it would considered gospel

Iamon lyme: So now because he didn't find in your view, you are begrudging him doing a job!!

If not as if he's some old preacher telling his flock the world is going to end and keeping the donations when 'the end' is a non event!!

... Is it that only Christian Preachers can use 'the end'??

(V): "Muller leads the Berkeley Earth Project"

I suppose it beats being an underemployed sceptic. Now Muller can afford to pay his light bill... no more shivering under the blankets on those cold winter nights.

A formerly sceptical climate scientist says human activity is causing the Earth to warm, as a new study confirms earlier results on rising temperatures.

In a US newspaper opinion piece, Prof Richard Muller says: "Call me a converted sceptic."

Muller leads the Berkeley Earth Project, which is using new methods and some new data to investigate the claims made by other climate researchers.

Their latest study confirms the warming trend seen by other groups. The project received funds from sources that back organisations lobbying against action on climate change.

The team argues that the good correspondence between the new temperature record and historical data on CO2 emissions suggests human activity is "the most straightforward explanation" for the warming.

The paper reiterates the finding that the land surface temperature has risen 0.9C just in the last 50 years.

In a piece authored for the New York Times, Prof Muller, from the University of California, Berkeley, said: "Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming.

"Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I'm now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause.".....

.....Prof Michael Mann, director of the Earth Science System Center at Penn State University, said that there was "a certain ironic satisfaction" in seeing a study funded by the Koch Brothers "demonstrate what scientists have known with some degree of confidence for nearly two decades: that the globe is indeed warming, and that this warming can only be explained by human-caused increases in greenhouse gas concentrations".

Prof Muller, meanwhile, describes his own change in standpoint as "a total turnaround".

He explained: "These findings are stronger than those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change [IPCC], the United Nations group that defines the scientific and diplomatic consensus on global warming."

The Col: Nope. Billions are spent each year in 'lobbying' and back handers to make sure of that. The Nobles have not gone, they've just been renamed.

(V): The small percentage controlling most of the wealth in this world are no more likely to allow the simple voters to control decisions , than Gordon Ramsay is going to allow some reality show winner dictate his menu(and chances of success) at one of his restaurants

Oh boy, look at this
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/07/man-sentenced-to-30-days-in-jail-for-collecting-rainwater-on-his-property-2444266.html

poor man.

You can run but you can't hide. One dude goes seriously airborne. Sucks to be them.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b3d_1341648456

I'll change the subject this time..

Why have so many aliens crash landed on earth? With all of their advanced technology you would think landing on earth should be easy for them.

(V): "Commentator Sarah Wildman says the Affordable Care Act finally makes healthcare affordable and accessible for women."

Makes you wonder how the human race has survived up until now... what with all the stupid genes that keep getting passed along.

Commentator Sarah Wildman says the Affordable Care Act finally makes healthcare affordable and accessible for women.

Fact: Before the Affordable Care Act it was perfectly legal to charge women more for health insurance; indeed it was the norm.
Fact: Before ACA, pregnancy was a pre-existing condition. So was a Caesarean Section. Both were legal cause for denying care.
Fact: Before ACA, pre-natal care wasn't normal women's care. Some 87% of insurance plans on the individual market did not offer maternity or labour and delivery as part of their coverage package.

Women have been going into debt, declaring bankruptcy, ruining their lives; all to give birth....

......The Affordable Care Act changes all that. It ends what's called "Gender Rating" - which allowed insurance companies to charge women more for being women.

It mandates maternity coverage. It ensures that pre-existing conditions will not force a woman to go without coverage. It ensures that insurance companies will no longer be allowed to turn down a woman for health coverage because she had a c-section.

The majority of Americans - some 63% - are covered by employer-based health insurance. Another handful qualify for Medicaid. Those of us on the individual market, at any given moment, are only 5-7% of the population.

But that number is misleading. It doesn't show those who are between jobs or starting new projects.......

......When I told my story in 2009 - of being billed $22,000 for the prenatal care and delivery of my child, despite having insurance that covered maternity expenses - I was shocked to discover how many fraudulent plans were out there.

Plans that charged women over $1,000 a month to include maternity care - only to discover that care would be capped at $3,000 or less for an entire pregnancy, and hospital care.

Coverage that insurance companies were well aware did nothing to actually cover the costs incurred. Plans that insisted women pay extra fees for a full year before getting pregnant. Plans that didn't allow women to be pregnant at all.

>>>>>>>> Such Freedom that women have in the land of the free ..... NOT!!

Iamon lyme: I was thinking more of what happened at the birth of our universe.. If the laws of nature were uniform then.. we wouldn't exist.

But, if we go back to what I said "Strangeness is relative to the observer" .. Then to most in the UK the belief that God created the world in 6 days and then rested, and that such is still 'believed unquestionably' (as many are forced to accept from birth in the USA) as very, very baroque.

Now that the US has elected its first black president, I wonder if England is ready to elect its first black prime minister?

Anyone wanna hear more of Obama's gaffes? I play ya two for one. I'll post two for every one you can find on Mittens.

Iamon lyme: I never hold them in. That's why I'm so smart. You could say, "It's smart for Art to fart."

MissDelish: Strangeness is relative to the observer.

Everyone knows London will be Bedlam at the moment, it's called 100's of 1000's of people visiting... It'll be like rush hour all day.

That's why I've put off any trips I need to make into London until after the Olympics.

MissDelish: Next time when you are in London, we'll be sure to ask Paul to organize the ceremony. But I'm not sure of the exchange rate... Him and his people not being of this Earth.

MissDelish: I'm watching from my Chair. It's nicer that way. Lots of cute chicks from other countries. And they are all waving at me!!!

I was dissapointed with the opening ceremony:( London is a bedlam at the moment hahahaha, I should have stayed home.

Artful Dodger: My wife would get mad at me and say, "You're doing that on purpose!"

Wife: "Did you fart?!"

Husband: "If you have to ask, it couldn't have been from me."

Iamon lyme: That's not allowed?

Artful Dodger: Preemptive farting doesn't work for me.. I just end up farting twice.

Iamon lyme: I hear that if you laugh too hard you fart. So I always fart first and then laugh away.

Artful Dodger: That's okay. A little laughter is good for the soul... too much laughter not so much.

The Col: I thought you'd say "half-wit" Dodger