grenv: again ... my point exactly ... I know you jest but it demonstates that someone may try to use time to pressure the opposition which surely is a very poor way (and I would declare unsportsmanlike) of trying to secure a win ... a win should (at least on a turn based site) be based on ability not on who can trump another's move immediately to force time to be the deciding factor. I guess a vote against this suggestion would place you firmly in that camp.

I have won many games where the other person, for some reason or other, has timed out. I find those very hollow victories and think that it is sad that others would even contemplate conspiring to win in this manner ... but it is their life I guess. At least I can say that if anyone has timed out against me I have always been willing to accept the game back again (and even suggested it), even if I am not in the stronger position as some of you know.

Cheers WQ

i agree, winning by timing out is bad. I just like to play quickly. If you time out against me I'll have it reinstated. Except Dark Chess of course. :)

well you just cant win lol people moan at people for moving too slow ,and now because they move too quick ,
if people are online when im online i will move as many moves as possible in that game ,not to try and catch them out ontime ,but because i like playing fast .if i didnt i wouldnt play two day limits .

How about an "online fellowship members" button?

Just a different perspective Jason ... so long as each is allowed their point of view and noone considers theirs superior to the other we can all be happy!

WisperzQ, your points, as always, are good ones. By contrast, my problem is the reverse of yours! When players take a very long time to move I lose interest in the game and sometimes offer draws, even if I have a won ending, just to avoid all the time it would take. I'd rather clear the game and try a new one with someone else. Of course, I must cross my fingers and hope my new opponent is more expedient than the last. I know this is a turn based site and I have no problem with those who move once every day or two. My frustration is with those who consistently move no more than once a week! I know they have every "right" to do so. I see no reason why multiple options, such as adding the time as you suggested AND indicating moves per day per game (per game type) as I suggested, cannot be implemented. I believe features such as these would dramatically improve the gaming experience here for everyone. The fervent and ongoing debate over this issue appears to confirms this.

RL: Agreed ... WQ:)

On one game page there is an icon one can download. It blinks when one has a play ready. It goes on the toolbar and prevents surfing back and forth to check on moves. Email notification is unnecessary if one has the icon, or one can have both.

Hey Fencer, if your not busy, I'd like to know the total number of moves I've made on the site :). & possibly the top 10 movers of all times. Thanks.

48172

wow, thanks

There will be such table but not sums of all moves per player, top 50 records per day.

No. I still have no exact description of how it should work.

IYT ladders suck. Too much reward for just playing. The idea that a player can move up by beating someone near the bottom is ridiculous.

I suggest that only beating someone ahead of you moves you up. You should be forced to accept up to (some number) games at a time, and only be allowed to challenge people (some number) places above you.

The main attraction of a ladder seems to be to see who is currently playing well? If so I suggest a second rating, where only games finishing in the last few months count. Not sure exactly what the algorithm would be.

Aragons and my ladder site, does not allow players to challenge someone below them, so you win, and go up, they go down.
They win, they go up a bit more, you go down further

Oh and nearly all the games for the ladders are played here :oD

Okay, if you have some easy to understand description of your system, give it to me :-)

I am not at liberty to divulge this information ;oÞ
It will be anounced if and when we feel its apropriate LMAO

*My hand*

Never mind, I have more sources of information :-D

As we all do :oD

I like the way they do the ladders on GT. Everyone starts on rung one. The games are setup by the server so you can't choose who you are playing (keeps strong players from chosing easy wins). The system pairs you up with someone from your rung (i.e. rung 1 at the start). When the game is complete, the winning player moves up a rung (i.e. to 2) and the losing player moves down 1 rung (or stays on rung 1, as it's the lowest you can go.) Does this make sense?

I like that type of ladder also :o) Its why I play them on GT also :o)

Do they have several players per rung? As personal style is a factor it would be tiresome to be continually faced with the same opponent.

On those ones Ughaibu you win or lose , you then change to a different group rung

sure they do, as an example right now for there backgammon ladder:

Backgammon Ladder Stats
Rung 14: 1 player
Rung 13: 1 player
Rung 12: 2 players
Rung 11: 2 players
Rung 10: 5 players
Rung 9: 8 players
Rung 8: 13 players
Rung 7: 16 players
Rung 6: 29 players
Rung 5: 29 players
Rung 4: 49 players
Rung 3: 57 players
Rung 2: 99 players
Rung 1: 109 players
Total: 420 players

pardon my ignorance, what is GT?

Thanks.

Alright, sounds good.

GT= GoldToken.com

grenv, it's another gamesite, like (but not as good) as BK

Backoff: How does this system decide when to generate ladder games for each player?

Thanks... I'll check it out. :)

I like how GT (Gold Token) Game site does their ladders also.

First - when you join a ladder, you start on the bottom rung (Called Rung 1) Every night, people who are not playing a game are randomly paired up to play each other.

At the end of a game, the winner moves up a run, and loser moves down a rung (unless you are already at the bottom rung 1, then you stay there.)

So the winner will move up to rung 2. Even night, the system checks to see if there are available players on each rung - if at least 2 players are on rung 2, they will be matched up. Winner of the match will move up to rung 3, loser will move down to rung 1.

Sooner or later, you will get the best people very high up on the rung.

Other minor rules are:

1) Every couple of months or so, they remove any rungs which are empty, and drop the high rungs down. (So if 1 player is in rung 9, 0 players in rung 8 - rung 8 will disapear, and player in rung 9 will drop to rung 8)

I think there is a rule where you can not play the same player twice in a row. Each person has to at least play someone else before they play each other again.

Fencer, once a day the system checks the rungs to see who isn't playing a ladder game and then radomly pairs the players on the same rungs up.

Here this is stright off the GT ladder info page:

Ladders
What is a ladder?
Almost everyone is familiar with the concept of a gaming ladder. Each player occupies a rung of the ladder. New players start at the bottom rung. Players on lower rungs challenge those on higher rungs to games, and if they win, they move up to the higher rung. After enough games are played, the ladder will represent, more or less, the relative skill level of the players in the ladder, with the best players at the top of the ladder.

But how does that work on a turn-based gaming site?
While this concept works well for games that may take an evening to play in over the board competition, it isn't extremely well-suited for correspondence gaming, where a game can take several months to play. By having to challenge each player on higher rungs, it could take a great player literally years or dozens of years to climb to the top of a ladder with only a few hundred players in it.

So we've taken the basic ladder concept and tweaked it a bit so that it works well in a turn-based gaming environment by making the following changes:

Instead of one player per rung, there can be many people on the same rung
About once per day, all available players on a single rung are randomly paired up in challenge games
A player who wins a game moves up to the next higher rung
A player who loses a game moves down to the next lower rung, with rung 1 being the lowest possible rung
Players who draw will remain together on the same rung
Three times per year, the rungs are compressed to ensure that good players have an opportunity to climb the ladder

and the players paired up have their colour set at random, and the colour that starts has to play within 3 or 4 days or they forfeit and other player wins.
All ladder games have time limits of the 3 or 4 days (cant remember which)

How about a facility whereby posts are rated and the social side also enters the game/competitive mileau? Could save on the endless repetitious nonsense about politicians.

Thank you. It's not a bad system. Any ideas how to improve it? I don't want to have it exactly the same as on another site :-)

i don't know how you can improve it, GTs ladders are the best. it would be different if you don't change the ratings to tourn. ratings only like they did, it's definitely not very popular, and causes a lot of people not to play in them, it's better to leave the ratings the way they are now.
getting off subject, if you do get the cube for the gammons then i strongly suggest the fibs rating. this is the only site that doesn't use it for the gammons.
btw, Good Luck with your changeover.

ummm the only way I see to make it better is to call it the BK ladder system :) I think mabye to start games right away if you have two people on the rung instead of games starting only once per day.

You can hardly tell BrainKing to start games "right away" :-D There must be some checking period. Once an hour, for example?

lol that works or every 4. I think it will add a new level of fun to the games here.

Up to you, I dont like ladders and dont play in them.

well for every gmae it's different. The chess ladders will be very slow to move, while games like backgammon will move faster and some games will see movment in the rungs daily.

Stevie (Steve Reeves) - Brain Rook, 50 Brains
Total score: 1384 wins, 69 draws, 1555 losses


Can it also show when our membership is due to finish also? Its such a pain waiting to get to look at your profile at times, takes ages

It shows a warning when you have 14 or less days left.

When your membership is up for renewal, you'll get a note saying "your membership is about to expire". So you needn't worry until then.
And, on BK2 the profiles will be easier to get into anyway, you won't have to wait as long.

I know this, but you do get asked sometimes and also would like to see myself, and as there was plenty of spare space there I was just doing a feature request, not asking what it does LOL

"Time to renew" - It will be on your main page - Above your games so you can't miss it.

(some of these rules are good but some arnt very good . but its a good idea of what happens for those who dont know .

.
.This is the short version of the rules for ladders.



Rankings
Each person will be ranked in a ladder-- number 1 is the best player. Only one person will be ranked at a particular number-- there are no ties. Each ladder type and game type will have its own, independent ranking. Rankings are updated every 15 minutes, so you'll have to wait a few minutes after winning your game to see the results displayed on the rankings page.


Moving up the ladder
The object of the ladder is to move up the ladder, perhaps ultimately to the number 1 position. To move up the ladder, you must win games. If you beat someone higher-ranked than you, then you take their spot, and everyone else moves down a spot. If you beat someone lower-ranked than you, then you move up one spot. When you lose a game, nothing happens-- you do not move in either direction. However, if you do not win games, you will eventually be pushed further and further down the ladder as others move over you.
Example: If you're ranked number 100, and you beat number 90, then you become the new number 90, and everyone else moves down one spot. If you're ranked number 100, and you beat number 110, then you would move to the number 99 position.


Number of games
For each ladder, you may be playing up to 4 games at once. You are allowed to challenge two different players, and in addition two other players are allowed to challenge YOU. If someone challenges you, and you are not on vacation, then the game will AUTOMATICALLY be created for you. You have no choice but to accept challenges from other players. In general, you must accept up to 2 challenges from other players. Similarly, when you challenge someone else, that game is created instantly if they have not already accepted two challenges.


Who you can challenge
Generally, you can challenge anyone ranked with 20 places of your current position, as long as they aren't on vacation, and they still have challenge-accept games left to play. If you're in the top 20 or bottom 20, then you will be able to challenge the top 40 or bottom 40 players respectively.

After you finish a game with a specific player, you are not allowed to challenge them again for 2 weeks. This prevents players from continuously playing the same people.


Joining existing ladders
To join an existing ladder, click the 'join a ladder' link on the main ladder page. New ladder players are added every 15 minutes, so check back in a few minutes, and you will have been added to the bottom of the ladder. Then click on someone's name to challenge them, and you'll be on your way to number 1!


Waiting lists
For ladders not yet in progress, you can join a 'waiting list'. Once enough players have signed up, the new ladder is started automatically. However, your signup is only good for 7 days, after which you will receive a message that your waiting list application has been deleted. You can immediately re-join that waiting list if you wish. We do this so that any ladders that start will have a fresh list of players on it. You can only sign up for a maximum of 5 waiting lists at any one time. After a new ladder starts, you are welcome to put your name on another waiting list. You can also remove your name from a waiting list at any time.


Starting new ladders
When a new ladder starts, the players will be ranked in the order that they joined the waiting lists. If you are ranked near the bottom, please do not complain or despair. Simply challenge someone above you, and start your climb to the top. Note that if a poor players is ranked at the top, they will soon get beaten by the stronger players below them and fall down the ladder.


Timed out games cannot be restored
If you time out in a ladder game, IT CANNOT BE RESTORED, even with your opponent's permission, even if it's due to system problems on our end. The reason is because the rankings are dependent on the ORDER in which games finish, and once the rankings have changed, they cannot be changed back. Keep in mind that you are not penalized for losing a ladder game (you basically remain at the same ranking), so if you do time out, simply challenge someone else and try again.