Resher: This game was talked about in the Untouchables fellowship... I found it in the fellowship thread. That's how I know what happened.

Everyone interprets rules differently, that's why I asked for clarification in my original post. Also, per Aganju's request, further discussion should take place on the backgammon board: http://brainking.com/en/Board?bc=26

LOL Crosseyed... sorry to ruin it for you!

Resher:

(1) I don't know. You may have discussed the game in a fellowship.
(2) The rule says that if (a) opponent has collected all his checkers onto the one point behind player's prime, then (b) the player must unblock a point in his prime to allow the opponent a chance to move.

The situation described as (a) did not occur in your game, hence (b) did not (or would not) have to be enforced.

Pedro Martínez:
(1) How would cd power know I'd pointed out the rule to Zach then?  I was guessing he had special status, rather than everyone could see the comments.
(2) Why do you think that?  Apart from one stone on my 1-point (which can't move) all other stones are behind a six prime, so can't move either.  Please explain how you interpret the rule.

Resher:

(1) We cannot see your in-game comments.
(2) The rule being discussed does not apply to the situation in question (Move 25) in your game with Zach.

Marshmud: I used to really enjoy playing Fegva now I don't think I will enjoy it so much now.

cd power: Thanks for finding this game - it's exactly the one I've been trying to find.  Zach was very good about this game.  He was about to win by just one roll, but because he had delayed unblocking by one roll earlier on, he offered a draw.  So this shows it can affect the outcome - it doesn't just apply to hopelessly lost cases that don't matter.

(I didn't realise that you could read all our in-game comments - is that some special privilege you have?)

cd power: Actually, we should take this whole thread to the Backgammon Board; it is really not of 'common interest' to all BrainKing (-> http://brainking.com/en/Board?bc=26)

Aganju: Here is another example (which I researched from a fellowship game) -- Resher pointed out the rule to Zach, and Zach later offered a draw in good sportsmanship because he didn't open up the spot on time. Click on move 25: Fevga (Zach vs. Resher)

cd power: you are right, it applies at move 27 (http://brainking.com/en/ShowGame?g=6542931&i=53). at move 25, White could still move 2 -> 1(which it did). Black correctly followed the rule and opened, right when required (but maybe accidentally?).

Aganju: Actually, if you click back on move 25, he was blocking 8-9-10 also, so yes, the rule applies here

Marshmud: If you would be blocking 10, 9, 8 in addition, then he had no move whatever he rolls, and you would be required to open anyone of 10,9,8,7,6,5.

likewowman2cool: I"m not sure I knew of this rule. I think I probably exploited that glitch a few times.

Marshmud: No, it is not an example of the rule.

The rule is that if on all rolls it is impossible for your opponent to move, then you must open up a space that he or she can move into.

cd power: Is this a example of the rule? So by the rule I need to open my prime since all the other pieces are in my home area?

Fevga (Elly1962 vs. Marshmud)

Roberto Silva: You are correct. Thus, I will take Pedro's advice from the other day and not take the rules too seriously! Thanks everyone for their input... I can close this case now :)

cd power: on the subject of perpetual check, with the exception of stalemate, no other draw rules are enforced by the server.

cd power: I only play the easy games.

crosseyed: I'm sure there are other rules on this site that are not enforced. For example, in chess, perpetual check is allowed and can force a draw that way. In Chinese Chess, perpetual check is not allowed and the person doing the check must break it off... hence, no forced draw. However, even though that is a published rule for chinese chess, it is not enforced on this site.

Aganju: I am getting really confused now. I guess I should have read the rules.

crosseyed: There is another rule that says you cannot prime (completely block) your own starting board, meaning blocking spots 1 to 6 right in the quarter where you start. You can prime any other place on the board. This rule is actually enforced, even if you wanted only to move through the spot (which is incorrect I think), like when you have a double and you want to move through the sixth spot, temporarily blocking the section, and then move on.

Marshmud: I was not aware that blocking a long line of pieces was against the rules. It has happened to me many times and I am sure I have done the same to other players a few times. However there have been times when it would not let me place a piece where I have wanted to because it would mean blocking the other player. When I have been blocked and there is no way I could win I resign the game as I don't see any point in holding up a tournament. As we all know some tournaments can take years to be completed.

cd power: I also had no knowledge of this rule. I think it's great that you proactively follow it - I'd suggest that when you do, you let your opponent know. Something like:

cd power: I agree with you but I'm not sure you will get that clarification you ask for. If the game site can't implement the rules properly I'm not sure how you expect the members to play accordingly.

Marshmud: For me, it is an issue of honest sportsmanship. If a published rule is pointed out, it should be followed.

cd power: By forcing your opponent to open up that spot after all his men is in his final section how do you expect to win anyway? I realize its mathematically possible.

I'm not trying to be rude just trying to understand the rule. If I was asked (and I never have) I would immediately open up a spot in my prime. I think 90% of the fevga players are unaware of this rule.

Aganju: Yes, my opponent thinks the rule is "unfair" and chose not to follow it after I pointed it out. It is a rare situation to have all checkers stacked on one point, and that is why most people are not aware of this rule. This is the first time I was the one with all checkers on one point, but it has happened several times where my opponents have stacked all of theirs, and I freed up a spot for them to have a chance to move. I believe you should always follow the rules at a game site if they are published... even if they are not your standard way of playing. Oh well.

cd power: no clue about this rule...think my opponents either...

Marshmud: me either I had to go and read the rules

Resher: I've played the games for years and had no idea of such rule. After 416 games and a fairly high ranking, I have never been approached of the illegal move.

Aganju: I've found that most people are happy to play by the rules and have moved when it's been pointed out to them.  If someone is refusing to abide by the rules and thinks it's OK because the programming lets them, then it ruins the tourny in my opinion.  I'd message Fencer with the game id, point out that you've referred your opponent to the rules but they won't abide by them and ask Fencer to end the game in your favour.

cd power: The bug has been "in force" since the implementation of the game. I recommend that the rules are not taken too seriously.

cd power: the bug is well known for years, I was in the same situation. My opponent declared (when given that info) that 'the system does not enforce it so I don't care'

correct, but due tobug in game it doesn't force your opponent to have to move. Trying indicating to him that he is not playing entirely within the rules and he may move.

I'm not sure if this is where I post this, but can I get a clarification of the FEVGA rule for the following game. The rule in question is the 2nd to the last bullet: "It is allowed to build a prime (six consecutive blocked points) anywhere else (not in the player's starting quarter), but if opponent has collected all his checkers onto the one point behind player's prime, the player must unblock a point in his prime to allow the opponent a chance to move".

Fevga (cd power vs. TT2010)

Does my opponent need to move a checker, as all of my checkers stand on one point behind his? I have now had to pass already.

I only one slow stars going and one empty slot for other games ty

winterangels: you can only have two games in a stair at the same time, and only if you were invited for one and made the invitation for the other. If you started the game you're in, you can't start another until you finish that one.

they say thati don't......any more slots too playi don't think this is right

Heluvagi: Forget that! He received it!

I've just sent an invite to a member of my fellowship and he claims not to have received it. It was definitely him I sent it to and I checked the box. Is there a delay with the sending of invites, or might there be something I've done wrong?

rod03801:  usually I believe you have to have 4 slots available in order to play in a tournament if you are a pawn

winterangels: Your subject says "Stairs", yet you talk about being kicked out of a Tournament. So, I'm not sure what your issue is exactly. On your profile, I see you are indeed in one set of stairs, and were not kicked out. As a Pawn, you are only allowed in one set of Stairs. So that seems to be fine.

You currently have 19 games going. As a pawn, your limit is 20. To join a tournament, as a pawn, you DO have to have a certain number of free slots. I honestly don't remember how many that is. (4 or 5? I would imagine if it's "Single Elimination" that one slot would be fine) But I bet someone else does recall the exact requirement, and will say so. If you do not have enough slots, you will indeed not be allowed to start the tournament.

Why did I get kicked out of my tournament...It don't say that u have to have empty slots to keep playing a game..i think its unfair that I got kicked out of my tournament..

fhank you

winterangels: maybe the game was part of a multi-game match? you won the game but didnt win the match yet?

winterangels: Someone might be able to help if you say which game it is. Your Finished Games tab in your profile only shows one game ending last night, and that was anti-reversi, and you actually did not win that game.

iwon a gamelast nightand is not showing why

Carpe Diem: I think the point is to split seeded players. The second best starts at the bottom and so on. Wha it means is the best player always has white and the second best always black. Hardly fair in games where white has a big advantage.

Raistlin: Thanks! That seems to be an equally bizarre option. When I look at the tourneys in question, they say "Sort by BKR: No", but it sure appears that they all are sorted that way, so perhaps that's displaying incorrectly. 

Carpe Diem:

"For games with a random start position generate" just means same start position for all games of the tourn (froglet, pah tum ... have random start position for example), its not about players colors at all.

But if you are very high ranked in a game, elimination tourns ranked by bkr (optional) will put you always at the top of the tourn grid, so you will start all games (example : five in a line, you will have black in all games)..

The problem is this option ('ranked by bkr' ).

Aganju: What a bizarre setting - why would anyone ever want that? As you say, it certainly shouldn't be the default.