The Col: Technically.. it's been going on for decades. That's how I look at it.

"Politically speaking you are well aware of the many differing opinions in Israel, and specifically The Knesset in regards to finding a lasting peace, but when it comes to defending against attacks, they unite."

Well aware, n' yes.. I expect them to unite. It'd be quite an event if a significant portion said no retaliations.

(V):

> Technically.. it's been going on for decades. That's how I look at it.

Technically it has been going on for the last 4,000 years. Genesis is clear on how Abraham went to war with his neighbors as soon as he had left Chaldea. Nobody wants to admit it but this is the product of a war culture that goes back for several thousand years, and belief in religions that turn a blind eye to violence because "god is on our side".

What really strikes me about this conflict is that it is really a fair fight. Obviously Palestians receive as much money and weapons from the West as Israelis do. In fact, those home-made rockets do tilt the balance of power in favor of the Palestinians, who, by all accounts, are a nuclear superpower just like their opponents are!

Übergeek 바둑이: I had heard people mention it's been going on that long, but I wouldn't have thought a feud could go on for so long.

"by all accounts, are a nuclear superpower just like their opponents are!"

mmm.... that is a just a rumour. One that seems to be true, otherwise such hostile countries as said do surround Israel could get together and invade any time.

... If that is, the US presence wasn't there.

(V):

> such hostile countries as said do surround Israel

The truth is that Israel is in trouble. It was in trouble from the start. First, the British Empire made a big cokup of the whole thing. They used to control Palestine and Israel after WW II. They just granted Israel statehood wihtout even considering that there were other people living there too. The British Empire acted in the traditional way that empires do. They made a decision wihtout even considering the local population of their colony.

As soon as Israel was formed, the locals became angry at being displaced. Since all western empires were supporting Israel and doing nothing to rectify a growing problem, all the neighboring countries declared war. Now we have Palestianians displaced and living under an occupation. Israel is isolated in its territory, sturggling as best as they can to protect themselves. Western empires continue to be ineffectual in their efforts to make things better because rather than being fair and impartial, western empires prefer to play a game of geopolitics and strategic alliances.

Watching TV says all about why Israel and Palestine will never get along. A group of Palestinian school children are standing next to the blown-up remais of their school. An Israeli fighter jet blew it up. Then on the other side there is a bus blown up by a Palestinian insurgent in Tel Aviv. I see women and children standing around looking at that wreckage. When children grow up looking at those things, they grow up hating each other. Israeli children grow up afraid of Palestinian attacks. Palestinian children grow up terrified of Israel's military might. That is a recipe for eternal mutual fear and hatred. My heart goes out to those people because I know nothing will get better as long as western empires countinue to favor only one side over the other. Even if western empires could do something, three generations of war have made sure that the old wounds will never heal.

Übergeek 바둑이: Yeah, I read. Just as I read the problem starts back before a little, with the first influx of 'Israelites' in the period after WWI.

Also I read, that Jewish freedom fighters just after WWII started a terrorist campaign against the British administration. Bombing, assassination and violent uprisings led to the British having to have a force of 100,000 troops.

"When children grow up looking at those things, they grow up hating each other. Israeli children grow up afraid of Palestinian attacks. Palestinian children grow up terrified of Israel's military might. That is a recipe for eternal mutual fear and hatred."

Don't I know it.

"Even if western empires could do something, three generations of war have made sure that the old wounds will never heal."

I cannot agree with that. Alot of time would be required to heal the wounds.. decades. But it is possible. But not without a third party acting as peace keepers.

(V): Peace will never happen between muslims and Israel. It's delusional to think otherwise. As if what you have suggested hasn't happened. You couldn't get three weeks of genuine peace. You can't change hearts.

Artful Dodger: No.. it hasn't really been tried properly, the US has always vetoed any serious attempt by the UN to put pressure on Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fucpus065C4

Is it the Israeli influence in Washington that keeps something being done? It's well known they have spies in the USA!!

(V): Pressure on Israel? For what? They aren't lobbing bombs indiscriminately into neighborhoods and blowing up planes and blowing up buses. Are you nuts?

Artful Dodger: They are taking land that is not theirs. Did you not watch the video?

And yes they are killing civilians, hence the death toll being 100+ in the Gaza strip.