Mad Monkey, I heard someone say "we were all brain pawns once" a few weeks ago. perhaps it was you, I do not remember. I sure wish I knew what that has to do with ANYTHING, because as far as I can tell, it is a meaningless statement, as it is an obvious fact (since one cannot log onto the site without being a brain pawn at some point).

I don't think anyone is trying to drive brain pawns away. WHat is being suggested is that brain pawns have some of their benefits reduced, wihch has two possible consequences:

1) They might feel ti more necessary to become a member, because they obviously do not now (I very much doubt ythat financial woes are the reason people are not becoming members. Did all of the destitute people in this coutnry suddenly become board games players at brain King? I doubt it.)

2) There might be fewer occasions when a paying member cannot gte on the site to make his moves.

of course, you will probably counter that a 3rd consequence is that brain pawns may leave the site altogether. I suppose that somehow this loss of zero revenue is more important than dissatisfied PAYING members, but I don't quite understand how.

whether or not a person can afford a membership is really not relevant to the discussion anyway. I only discuss it because people don't seem to understand the difference between not wanting to pay for something and not being able to afford something.

The recent posts have alluded to something I have been wondering about for quite some time, that is cheating the system by establishing more than one userid. At almost any given time, less than 2% of the 'registered users' are logged in, yet the site maintains that there is traffic heavy enough to occasionally overload the server. This would seem to indicate that either a lot of pawns with multiple userids are logging in and out or a lot of players have registered and subsequently left the site while still being counted as a user, or some proportionate combination thereof.

I was a pawn for over three months before I joined, mainly because I was hesitant about the prospect of cheating pawns putting a drag on the system and I didn't sense that any corrective action was being taken. I decided to take a chance and join anyhow since I wanted to play in more tournaments and it's money well spent. Some might ask what the difference is between 5,000 or so pawns and maybe several hundred with different accounts. Well, my response would be... PLENTY!! With the 5,000 pawns, many will eventually join; in the latter scenario, none will because they cheat expressly to avoid payment.

Two years ago, I bought an IYT membership which is set to expire due to my disenfranchisement with them and their mistreatment of members. However, I admire their approach to attacking the problem of users with multiple accounts, which they did by tracking the IP addresses of computers logging on, and they even went so far as to tell a family of three using the same computer that two accounts must be closed, by this was an exceptional case.

This site needs an implementation of some such program. BBW astutely suggests that, without this safeguard, limiting pawns to a 3-month trial will do no good. I also agree with BBW that pawns should be permitted to join another tournament if they have concluded their games in one, even if games of other players are ongoing (many of us have experienced the frustration of that).

I suspect that most pawns are honest and complying with the rules, and there is not a problem there, but sadly there are some (even just a few is too many) who will always try to "have their cake and eat it".

As for dormant accounts, maybe the site should have a periodic review of users who have been long absent and move those records off-site to an archive or a storage disc. I'm not sure if such a scheme is workable or would solve more problems that it creates, and it is always possible for users who have been away for weeks or months to return, although the likelihood of that seems remote.

I'd be particularly interested in how members feel about pawns using more than one account, but thanks to anyone who patiently waded through all of this. I pride myself on concise expression, yet this topic is complex and it still turned out to be rather lengthy.

I have been reading all that is being written about pawns etc..

As someone who does pay towards the site, i try to look at it from both sides.

I get fed up when i can not get on here at certain times & the reason may well be there are too many people online. How can we blame that just on pawns (we were pawns once). I reckon there are about 260 paying members (out of 5900), if all or even half the paying members logged on at the same time the server would overload anyway - how would that be stopped ??? - would we start limiting Knights (i think not !!).

We would not have so many games to play if we started limiting pawns more than they already are. Logging them off when the server gets to a certain level would lead to games timing out & more people getting upset. I think that pawns are happy with the deal they get, we all were before we decided to become paying members. That was our choice as it is theres. We know the benefits we get as paying members, maybe those benefits should be made more clear to pawns to encourage them to join.

At the moment it looks like we are trying to drive them away, which personally i think is wrong. I received a message from a pawn today who is no longer going to be playing here as they don't feel they are welcome & also there is a note on this board from one who is not playing here again - i think it is sad this is what is happening to this site.

All this running people down just because they may not be able to afford to join at the present time is totaly wrong. How do we expect this site to get better & grow when people are being made to feel not wanted here ?????

MadMonkey

Harley: " I believe its worth getting, with not a single doubt."

You and I are in completeagreement here. But apparently we are in the minority, because most people are content with what they get as a brain Pawn.

i first joined the site in October/November, but didn't play any games untill around March/April time, within a day of playing i decided to become a member, why? because i felt happy here, everyone was so welcoming, and thats the way it should be :) i will keep renewing my membership, i have also given a donation, and will be happy to give more, as it will not just benefit me but everyone... the better the site, the more members we will get.

There are more benefits than that for rooks, Dmitri. We get to play in as many tournaments as we like too. We can use the members only board, and also have the satisfaction of knowing we are supporting a great site. That, combined with the unlimited games and ability to join fellowships was more than enough reason for me to become a member. I believe its worth getting, with not a single doubt.

"Pawns are where our future members come from. We should encourage brain pawns to play all they want."

I agree, it is simple. Not enough money is ocming in because not enough people are becoming paying members. Supply and demand can be used here. The demand for a membership is too low. This might be due to excess supply. By reducing supply (reducing the benefits extended to brain Pawns), demand will increase, because a membership will be worth more. Right now, it does not appear that a mambership is worth enough for people to become members.

I would guess that the thought process goes something like this: "Hmm. If I become a member, I can join fellowships and play unlimited games. But I can play 20 games for free, and I don't really care about joining fellowships. so I'll continue to be a brain Pawn."

Pawns are where our future members come from. We should encourage brain pawns to play all they want. But, I agree with BBW. It's all up to Fencer, anyway. I'd just be willing to give a little extra money to get a faster server for us.

As far as I'm aware, there are no plans to give pawn members more or less benefits.
This whole thing started because a few members wanted to let Fencer know that we would be willing to donate more money for a new server.
(A few suggestions about gold stars etc were also thrown in!)
I stand by this, as I'm sure those other members would.
Other people think we shouldn't have to pay any more, instead pawns should have less benefits here because they don't pay. Fair enough, I can see that side of it too.
At the end of the day its fencers decision, and I'm sure he'll do what is right for all the people here.

I welcome all pawn here - without them, many knights/rooks would not be here, and there would also be a limited option for people to play games against. Should Pawns get more "extra's"... My answers is no. (I think they should fix the "one tournament at a time" so they don't have to wait for other slow players, but I don't think they should get "more" then they have now - just fixed)

Should Pawn get less then they have now? Well I would not like to see that, but that would be something Fencer would have to decide. If it would help the server & money situation, well I would support what ever he did. IYT had to lower what the non-paid members had, and a lot of people got upset over that... and I'm sure something similar would happen here IF that were to happen here. But it's Fencer's site and he should keep trying whatever he needs to do to make this the site he would like to see! :-)

Someone also mentioned the idea of after 3 months, "downgrade" pawns to less. That's sounds good on paper, but I think many would just start creating new accounts every 3 months to get around it.

wow i thought all this little kid games were only on iyt. i am so sorry to see it is here too. i may or may not become a paid member based on the people on this site not the extras or limets....just the people. so remember you are showing people thinking about paying just what they are in for here. so far i say good game site but i do play on some that are alot bigger and they dont grip about when i want to be a full member or not.

Harley - you write 'I chooose to pay and get the extras'. But just now, the site goes down because too many players are on-line. That is an extra I do not want. Not being able to get onto Brainking whenever I want is a major problem, which puts all the extras into 2nd place.
That is why I think that Brainpawns should have limited access, especially when the site is reaching full capacity.

Who said that pawns should be made to feel unwelcome? I simply said that the brain pawns already receive enough benefits for the amount of money they pay (ZERO dollars, let's not forget that small fact). It seems like quite a few pawns have some kind of sob story about why they cannot afford a membership, and that is fine. BUt, those stories do not change the fact that the server gets overloaded, paying members cannot make their moves, and meanwhile some brain pawns continue to complain about not getting enough features.

some people have distorted my arguments to make it sem that I have a vendetta against brain pawns. Not so. I am just giving simple solutions to a problem. For some reason, thoase who choose not to pay (or the very rare people who really cannot pay) get very offended by my having the "audacity" to suggest that they should have fewer benefits than they do now. I must admit that giving slihgtly less to those who pay ABSOLUTELY NOTHING may seem like a wild concept, but I think it may have some merit.

Thats clearly a matter of opinion. When Tony says "not too sure 'we' want them", he is not speaking for me. I have no problem with unpaying pawns, thats their choice. They get a limited service here. I choose to pay and get the extras. But for the pawns who choose not to pay, well I wouldn't attempt to bully them into parting with their cash. Its on offer for free so why shouldn't they take it?

It is astonishing how messages get misread!!
Pawns who are here, looking around to see what is what are most welcome. Those Pawns who decide to pay a subscription are even more welcome.
BUT those Pawns who stay on here forever, without paying - not too sure we want them.

Wizard, all pawns are welcome here. I can't honestly say what the majority think but I find it hard to believe that the majority would want no pawns here at all. That would make for a very lonely site.
I hope you will reconsider and not allow a couple of opinions to chase you away. I for one do not agree that pawns should be made to feel unwelcome and I should think there would be quite a few others who feel as I do.

Well tonyh maybe you are in the majority and unpaying pawns are indeed unwelcome here. I will make it easy for you and not take up any more of your space. Thank you to all my friends and other players for the time you have allowed me to be here.

Dmitri, I totally agree with you. The concept of Pawns, I thought, was to give them a 3 month look-see at the Site, not to keep them here forever.
Once that 3 month period is over, then they should get LESS.
I cannot understand why paying members should pay more for extra servers to keep Pawns happy!!??

Sorry you feel that way Bernice, I was responding to Dmitri King's pawn-bashing exercise and not to you. I wish you all the best and am glad for you. I will not be discussing this any further on any boards.

Bernice.. I hope for your sake that Wizard was only being facetious .. or your comments are gonna look really rude !
Maybe I read it differently and therefore misinterpreted it ? Just an opinion :0)

WIZARD....I'm dissapointed...facetiousness isn't needed...I AM disabled for real and have stated in the past that I really cant afford to pay.....that is why I entered KEVIN's competition and was so very lucky to win it...I think bein an Aussie and being so very disabled i would wonder how you can afford $2000 on a computer then?
I have had my computer before I became disabled ...thats my reason...Your connection fee would have to be in excess of $20 per month.....dont talk crap........read my lips ......CRAP

and I might say I really struggle to pay my $29.95 per month to enable me to keep in touch with the wonderful people i have met in here :)

I agree with you in principle and when I have paid for my optical, finish paying for new crutches, and to the surgeon who will hopefully restore my feet to a state that I may hopefully be able to walk without the use of crutches, then the next possible thing on the list is membership here. In the meantime I do hope you don't really feel bad about me taking up some space on the site.

I tend to agree with you, Dmitri King. But, many of the pawns will eventually succumb. However, IYT's limited moves got me to join there. Gold Token's withheld games got me to leave there. But, Brainking's overall community, and good will got me to send money. Unfortunately, not all people feel that way - it's the old "Everything should be free on the net" mentality that started in the mid-late 90s when it was a work in progress.

I still think contributions, not changes in memberships, will accomplish what we need, and maybe, until we can afford the space needed to accomodate the pawns, we could limit their moves.

I could be wrong, but I think the problem is there are too many Brain Pawns. Brain Pawns do not help the site because they do not pay any money. A site costs money to run.

Some people have indicated that the brain pawns need to be given more features or more games or less restrictions in order to entice them to become paying members.

Of course, this is preposterous. If a brain Pawn is given MORE than the already NUMEROUS features he has, why would he pay for a membership at that point?

Generally, I have found that I (and others) pay for something when they have a lot to gain from doing so.

How can it be made so that Brain Pawns have more to gain by paying for a membership? By giving them LESS, not more. THe less they have, the more they have to gain by becoming a paying member.

So, great minds think alike. I don't come to this board often, because I have enough boards on which to bore people.

But, I've been thinking if we all kicked in a little extra, we could achieve a new server faster. But, Fencer needs to put up some number for us to shoot for. I thought maybe if we all just kicked in another $5 for an infrastructure development fund it would kick it up a little. Whaddya say, Fencer? What does it take? I'm in. Like eddie, you'll have to ban me to keep me from playing here, and I DO pay my dues.

Gold stars are good, and could be permanent additions to those who pay a little extra. Those who don't aren't to be ostricised, I think we all understand limited budget. But those of us who can (I am grateful to be in that group - Lord knows I've been on the other side) should put our money where our mouths are.

If we didn't add any levels, just made contributions, no changes would come to the structure as it stands. And, we wouldn't have to pay more forever, because a better, faster server would mean more people would join. I know pawns who aren't joining because of the connectivity problems. As the site grows, economies of scale take place, and we level out.

I am grateful to you, Fencer, for all you have done for us. This is a great site, with LOTS of great people, and I want to hang out here for a long, long time. My laptop will be in network with eddie's from the grave.

No worries Bernice, I dont know Dolittle personally but I do wish him a fast recovery, and I doubt Fencer would mind the occasional enquiry & update about him here :o)

Eddie, I've just extended my membership another year hoping it would help some, and if we all did that, it might help right now, but in another years time the cash would dry up again because everyone would have memberships spanning a year or two! I agree about the maharajah, I'd love to have that, not for the maharajah, but just to help out, but its way too expensive for me! Maybe this time next year when I'm a millionairre....!!
BBW as far as I know its just shirts thats in the pipeline for now. But I guess these things take time to get them made up ready to sell.

I have asked this before???
Has anyone heard how our "Dolittle" is:(
I'm really starting to worry now....she should have been back ;(
sorry Harley I know it isnt for this board but.....

I noticed them about a week ago maybe...was surprising to me too! lol

WOW - I just figured out if you go to the "game rules" of the games, there are Statistics there for the games!

For example, in Spider Line 4, White won 61% of the time, Black won 38% of the time, and draws .2% of the times!

Idea: Is there a way to put all the statisics for all the games on one page? Just one of those cool things I like to look at, but it's a pain to have to go through EVERY game's rules to find them. :-)

Plus, how long have they been there? I remember looking at rules not too long ago and I never seen them there. (which is why I'm posting this so others can check them out!)

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

i agree ..i would help out maybe if fencer could say if not how much maybe say how many more rook memberships woudl be needed to for the next upgrade...say for instanc if 20 more rook memberships would get him there..then 20 of us extend for another year now then let fencer figure out how to thank us...with a star or maybe just an extra motnh or two for free i know for me ill be playing here a long long time as long as im alive and kickign...hell if i go ill tell my kids to bury a laptop with me so i could still pout my games thru everyday...but anyways...i think if fencer was honest and gave us a round about figure we could help..the brain mariah membership thing ...thats too high for me..if i was rich i proabably would or if i made enough brains..but we all know i dont have any brains...well thats my 2 cents...

Was there still a plan to sell shirts & other item here?

I agree, Maybe if we did a pledge drive or something.. If we knew the amount needed to better the server, then the ones who could send extra money could do so and we could post how much has been sent, how much is needed to reach the goal.

I, for one, would happily donate money if enough other people were going to, and it would actually accomplish something. What would it take, Fencer? I absolutely LOVE this site and will happily do my part to help out.

I think I confused things saying a 'higher membership level'. I didn't mean anything should be taken away from rooks, and I cant see that much could be added to what the rooks have now. But I do think some kind of gold star or symbol to acknowledge the extra support would be a good idea. It might encourage more donations, people like to see something for their money, even if its just a gold star!!

Well you said something about charging more for people who run a Fellowship - and I guess my point is to not "take" anything away from the current Rook membership.

thats basically what i said BBW but instead of a gold star a different ranking showing that those who paid alittle extra to help the site out , star or ranking same idea , ;~)

I personaly do not like the idea of another higher membership level to do some of the things that as a rook I can already do. (I already paid for a year as a rook for the things it does, so please don't take anything away from it.)

BUT - How about a higher membership level for more money. Possible call it an "Extra Friends" level or something. Maybe not give them anything extra (as in features), but for say an extra $10-$20, put a gold "star" next to their name so everyone knows that they support the site extra. So for people who can afford the extra money, and wants to help out the site even more - this gives them an option to do that.

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

You're right, Tony, thats a great idea Jason had about a higher membership level, maybe an Archbishop or Chancellor in line with the new Gothic Chess game we have here.
Maybe we should also have a 'fundraiser tube' on the front page, showing where we are up to and the target amount for a new server.
Positive suggestions about how to raise the money are far more constructive than complaints.

Harley - I suggested apid members taking precedence when the site got to fullcapacity and Fencer reasonably said that it was too late then; the site was already down. So what I am asking for here is that long-standing Pawns get 'retired' at 90% capacity, to make room for the paying guys. Look at Jason's message below.

does it make a difference for the capacity if we turn some options off (eg updating the number of games every 3 minutes)? If it does, i think there are be a lot of players who needlessly drain the cappacity without even realizing it. making it a "members only" option could also help of course ;)

fencer how about inventing another title (eg pawn knight rook ) one higher than a rook for people ,for example who run fellowships ect , for an additional fee (but not too much ) just a thought on helping the bigger server fund ;~)

i agree with everybody this is a great site although it has its problems , i cant wait to be able to log on and be able to stay on here without being booted off , for people who work we get the worse end of it (in the uk anyhow ) i get home from work and cannot get on here most of the time untill its time for my bed . im not having a go at fencer at all but people who pay to come on here cant always do that !!
just thought i would have my say ...now i feel better lol

Tony, I seem to remember that being suggested before somewhere, and the reply was that it would be too much for the server to work out who was a member and who wasn't? It was something along those lines! It just wouldnt be practical and would make things worse.

"Good things come to those who wait", and I think we have it pretty good now. Getting on at Fencer about the problem will only slow him down even more. He's well aware of it and doing his best for all of us.
I think Icon phrased it very nicely :o)

Fencer; may I suggest, though, that, when the site is approaching full capacity, Brain Pawns with over 3 months on the site, are 'retired' from that session. At least, paying members get to have uninterrupted access.

Of course there is a way. But it costs money and requires more machines to balance the load and separate the paying and non-paying users. I currently don't have this money. We must work with the equipment that we have.
Is that acceptable answer?

I, too, am fed up with not being able to get on (or, worse, being closed off). There must be a way of enabling paid-up members to have priority; otherwise, this site risks losing all its paid-up members entirely.

I've found normally between 9pm and 12am GMT (approximately) i can't get it at all. Other than that, it works fine for me! :-)

I mean I don't really have that big of a problem with the server being slow - Heck, a few months ago I predicted this would happen (that is when the server started growing too fast like IYT, it would have it's problems also.) Many people said "That's not going to happen", but I was right! :-)

But like I said, no big deal to me - I have games on IYT, DailyGammon & Pocket-Monkey to keep me busy while I wait for BrainKing.... I just don't like it when all my opponents have to wait so long for me to play sometimes. :-(

What country are you in, BBW? In the UK, mine is fine most of the day, until about 7pm. Then for a few hours its difficult to get on. If you can get that to your own time it might help!
Hopefully Fencer will have the new server soon, and these will be problems of the past. In the meantime we just have to be patient. Its worth the wait I think!

Actually I have a similar question - that is when is the "peak" and "low" times for the server.

It seems whenever I get on to play many games, I will at least once or twice get the server is too busy message. Maybe if I knew when the "low" time was, I could try to play more games during that time and stay away during the "peak" time.