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Tournaments



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10. mája 2006, 17:50:31
SafariGal 
Subjekt: Re: Question on tourney fees
Rose: yes I saw all the overdue tournies and I thought why are they just not deleted? Some looked like parts had started but other parts of it were still open to signing up but maybe I was imagining that

10. mája 2006, 18:49:10
Walter Montego 
Subjekt: Re: Question on tourney fees
SafariGal: It's all about the perception of fairness. I posted about this subject on the BrainKing discussion board around the first or second week of February. It all got lost in a big brouhaha caused by an unrelated subject on February 14th.

I proposed letting the tournament organizer keep the profit and giving Fencer a cut of it. I also said to let the organizer be able to set the profit at whatever level he wanted, including no profit at all or even letting him put extra in for a larger purse.

You presently can sponsor a prize tournament yourself without a fee. And notice, these tournaments are widely attended. The fee-to-enter tournaments with a 30% cut seems too high for just about everyone. Fencer did propose adding month extensions for every ten positions filled in the tournament.

I would change the current set up and let the tournament creator set the percentages to whatever levels he likes and for more places. If the total is less than 100%, he shares it with Fencer, say 75%/25% Creator to Fencer. All types of percentages would be tried, but eventually people would enter those tournaments they thought were fair for themselves. I personally would not enter one that took more than 10% out unless I figured my chances of winning a placing prize were very good.

Then there's the problem of the Brains themselves. Not everyone has them yet. This causes the fee-to-enter tournaments to not get started because of lack of people joining. The pool of people with Brains is small. I have 50 Brains. What am I supposed to do with them?

12. mája 2006, 00:39:45
websaim 
WEBSAIM backgammon tournament 6(Top 135 Players)

top 135 players Hyper gammon and Back gammon 23 may

12. mája 2006, 10:19:44
TC 
Subjekt: Winner of the tournament: qusar
qusar is the Number "1", among 7 players of the tournament 'Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04 (Nackgammon)'

Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04

Congratulations qusar!

Thanks to all other players!

Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04

13. mája 2006, 14:55:53
saeco 
Subjekt: live tournament

13. mája 2006, 14:58:03
SafariGal 
Subjekt: Re: live tournament
tyv noj: what does it mean when it says random game? does that just mean that no one knows what it will be until it starts? even the creator?

13. mája 2006, 17:17:56
dameningen 
Subjekt: Re: live tournament
SafariGal: Yes

13. mája 2006, 17:34:12
redfrog 
Subjekt: Join In

13. mája 2006, 17:55:16
SafariGal 
Subjekt: Re: live tournament
Salkkuman: on closer inspection it gives a list of a few types of games, does that mean the creator gets to choose a list and the game will be one of the games on the list?

13. mája 2006, 18:11:05
saeco 
exactly, and which game of those on the list is played is desided randomly. and the tournament would have started when 4 players would have signed up ;)

13. mája 2006, 18:12:16
SafariGal 
Subjekt: Re:
tyv noj: that is an excellent idea

13. mája 2006, 19:53:22
websaim 

13. mája 2006, 23:53:37
TC 
Subjekt: Winner of the tournament: qusar
qusar is the Number "1", among 6 players of the tournament
'Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04 (Backgammon Race)'

Congratulations qusar!

Thanks to all other players!

Tepedeki %10 - Hızlı Tavlacılar 2006-04

14. mája 2006, 02:04:22
Eriisa 
Subjekt: How about some Ludo???
I thought I'd set up some Single Elimination for 4 players.



Ludo for 4 - single elimination #10
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF!

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #11
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF!

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #12
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF!

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #13
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #14
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF

14. mája 2006, 16:08:24
Eriisa 
Subjekt: Gammon anyone?
RandomGammdon #5
Random game types: Backgammon, Nackgammon, Crowded Backgammon, Hyper Backgammon
1 day moves. NO days off. 2 more people needed~

14. mája 2006, 19:10:02
Czuch 
Subjekt: Re: Gammon anyone?
Eriisa: okay, its filled!

15. mája 2006, 10:51:43
kleineme 
Subjekt: Minimum number of players
I would like to suggest that elimination tournaments are not going to be deleted if the destined number of players were not reached. Currently you can't set a minimum number when you set up an elimination tournament, so if you set it up with 16 players, it will be deleted if only 15 have joined. Why not give one player a bye in the first round and let the others play? It's an elimination anyway, so from round two on it will be no difference any more. One could set 4 players as a system default minimum number, and every tournament with more entries will start as usual.

15. mája 2006, 14:18:25
nabla 
Subjekt: Offering a prize money for a tournament
Zmenené užívateľom nabla (15. mája 2006, 14:18:43)
I would like to create a tournament of Ambiguous Chess and offer a prize money in brains equivalent to a 1-year rook membership (without entry fee). I suppose that I must create the tournament with the "prize money" flag, and then buy the corresponding amount of brains. Am I correct ?
And two more questions :
Am I correct that a brain rook account costs 750 brains (25x30 EUR) ?
If not enough players join, will I get the brains back ?

15. mája 2006, 14:31:52
Fencer 
Subjekt: Re: Offering a prize money for a tournament
nabla: You don't need to use Brains for that. Just select the prize checkbox when you create the tournament and then use the standard Paid Membership page to pay for the prize. That's all.
I don't think there would be a problem with not enough players.

15. mája 2006, 14:43:26
nabla 
Subjekt: Re: Offering a prize money for a tournament
Fencer: It is just that I prefer to offer brains, that can be used either for a membership either for something else - for instance, black rooks would not care about winning a one-year membership
And you don't know what minimum number of players I will set

15. mája 2006, 17:25:33
coan.net 
Subjekt: Re: Offering a prize money for a tournament
nabla: If you are going to provide the price (that is with no entry fee), then you can offer just about anything you want. If you would like to offer brains instead of membership, then just make sure you put that in the description of the tournament you create.

Then when you send money (PayPal) to Fencer to cover the brains, just make sure you let him know that you are using it to buy "brains" to use as a prize.

(Of course, then the winner could just use the brains to upgrade his membership if they wanted to - then again, if a person wins a membership, I'm sure Fencer would also let them trade it in for brains.... Fencer is usually pretty flexable about things like that)

Maybe you could offer the choice of XXX Brains or XX membership that the winner can choose from (which of course cost the same amount of money for each)

= = = = =

As a side note, Ambiguouse Chess (NEW GAME!!!!) looks pretty interesting. I'm not a chess player, but always like to try new games. Everyone should Check Out The Current Ambiguous Chess Tournaments!

Hum... and of course the new game before that, Breakthrough - Some of those tournaments

Fencer's been pretty busy lately - Great job Fencer!

15. mája 2006, 18:14:16
Eriisa 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
kleineme: Remember that you can set a number of days for the tourney to wait after the start date. What I do is set mine for something around 7 days, and then watch to see if I need to extend it. I also check the 'start imeediately when filled' box.

15. mája 2006, 20:02:56
kleineme 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Eriisa: Yes, you're right :) But my suggestion is about those tournaments who will never be filled, at least not with the number of players the tourney creator has set up. Take a look at this one: random elimination wild chess. The original starting date was May, 1st, currently nine players have joined, and unless a miracle happens the tourney will be deleted at the end of May. Why not let those nine play, regardless whether the 16 participants are reached or not. I would like to play and I wouldn't mind if I get a bye in the first round, and I would assume that the others won't care either. At least we could play from round two on ;)

15. mája 2006, 23:07:12
Eriisa 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
kleineme: I see what you mean. If it was my tourney, I was edit the start day and extend it, so it won't be deleted.

The only problem with letting the 9 play, is that 9 cannot be divided by two, so who will the 9th person play against???? The Single Elimination game type pairs off the players so it must be an even number.

I did have one elim tourney that I had set up a while ago, that was set for 16 players and only 8 signed up. I sent Fencer a PM and he edited the tourney for me and changed the 16 to 8 so it could start.

But 9 players wouldn't work, so that option's out.

15. mája 2006, 23:16:57
gringo 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Zmenené užívateľom gringo (15. mája 2006, 23:17:22)
Eriisa: I think you don't see what he means, Eriisa. Think again about the concept of "a bye" pls. Ok, I give you a hint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bye_%28sports%29 ;-)

15. mája 2006, 23:20:03
toedder 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Eriisa: The idea ist to give random players wildcards for the first round. Maybe one could chose wether to start only if the proper amount of players has signed up, or to start when the deadline passes - no matter how many players are in (well - if there are at least 4 of course)

15. mája 2006, 23:28:00
gringo 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Mr. Shumway: Sounds interesting and strange at the same time as usually everybody here has a wild card, that means can participate in tournaments without qualification. Would there be a diference to an invitation? Or did you just mix things up a bit because of the tournament's name kleineme mentioned?

15. mája 2006, 23:49:28
toedder 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
gringo: But not everybody has a wildcard for the second round. You normally have to qualifiy for it by winning a 1st round match.

15. mája 2006, 23:59:11
Walter Montego 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
gringo: Why not seed the tournament and give the higher rated players a bye? Then the next round would start with a power of two number of players. Simple solution and it will get every tournament of the single elimination type started on time.

16 player tournament, but only 11 sign up. The deadline passes. Now you take the player's ratings and pair them up to add to 17 as they're ranked. 1-16, 2-15, 3-14, 13-4, 12-5, 11-6, 10-7, 8-9. As there isn't any players numbered 16, 15, 14, 13, or 12 players 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, would get a first round bye. Round two would start with 1 versus winner of 8-9. 2 versus winner of 10-7, 3 versus winner of 11-6. 4 versus 5.

The first round in a 11 entrant single elimination tournament would have three games played amongst the lower rated seeds. The three winners would continue on and the second round would have four games with the eight remaining players.

This can done for any number of entrants, odd or even. After one round the power of two number of people are left in the tournament and it will always work out at the end. Fencer should look into doing this. The tournament creator could have a 32 player tournament with 21 entrants and just have it start when the deadline passes.

I believe a few people posted earlier on this site about how brackets and seeding work. It's a real simple process.

16. mája 2006, 05:34:32
nabla 
Subjekt: Re: Offering a prize money for a tournament
BIG BAD WOLF: Thank you for the help, that is clearer now !

16. mája 2006, 17:41:11
Hrqls 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Walter Montego: there is a problem though with rating people in random tournaments .. how do you rate the players in a tournament which choses the games randomly from all possible game types ?
(or from just the line types, or the gammon types)

i dont know how the seeding is done nowadays with the random tournaments

16. mája 2006, 17:54:56
nabla 
Subjekt: Ambiguous Chess Prize Tournament

16. mája 2006, 18:49:21
Walter Montego 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Hrqls: I hadn't thought of the random game type tournaments. I can think of a few ways.

One way would be to seed them randomly!

Another way depends on how the actual game to be played first is chosen. Does everyone in the tournament play the same game in the first round? If so, after the game is chosen the players could be ranked and seeded by the rating they have in that game. For the second round, you could re-seed the field or keep it as is.

A third way would be for the games to be played to be picked for each round in advance and then the total rating to be used for the seeding. Whether or not the game order is revealed to players if it is done this way would be up to the tournament creator.

I'm sure some other ways can be thought up. I like the second way that I just made up of these three ideas. Allowing the tournament to be started after the deadline with a pared down list could also be done. Say you have a 32 player tournament, but only 21 sign up by the deadline. Even after the deadline is extended it is still 21 entrants, start the tournament with the top 16 seeds. Yes, the ranking and seeding of them is a problem for a random game, but idea number two would work for that too.

17. mája 2006, 09:16:30
Hrqls 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Walter Montego: random seeds would give random byes

i like the idea of giving each player in a round the same type of game .. it takes away some factor which is in the random tournaments now though and less different game types would be played in the total tournament (by all players combined) (i think its nice when a lot of different games are player because it gives more established ratings, in the end ;))

another option would be to average the rating over all possible game types and use that average .. it can be wrong though when there are some unrated types in the average .. i dont know whats done with the seeding of unrated players in normal tournaments now?

17. mája 2006, 11:37:36
TC 
Subjekt: Winner of the top 10% tournament: alanback
alanback is the Number "1", between 6 good players of the tournament 'Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04 (Crowded Backgammon)'

Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04

Congratulations alanback!

Thanks to all other players!

Tepedeki %10 - Hızlı Tavlacılar 2006-04

17. mája 2006, 15:11:49
gringo 
One question: Why does this (finished) tournament appear in the new tounrament section?

Eastern Bunny

17. mája 2006, 17:19:33
Orlandu 
Subjekt: Re:
gringo: The Tourney Started Early and When finished it still had time when the creator put the Deadline on...

17. mája 2006, 17:44:01
gringo 
Subjekt: Re:
Zmenené užívateľom gringo (17. mája 2006, 17:44:48)
Daniel Snyder: Thank you, Daniel. But it looks like now it's way over the deadline or not? So is this a bug? Anyway, all these tournaments way over their deadline which I have to browse through for an endless time to see how many more players they need in whatever game to start are really starting to bother me... :-/

17. mája 2006, 23:49:08
gambler104 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Hrqls: The seeding in these tournaments is like in chess instead of in other games. In a 16 player field 1 plays 9, 2 plays 10 and so on. After the first round I don't know how they pair so you would have to ask Fencer. But I would prefer 1-16, 2-15 over the system we use now.

18. mája 2006, 00:10:18
Walter Montego 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
gambler104: The system of seeding a tournament based on the rankings for a single elimination tournament is based on the premise that the final match should be against the number 1 and number 2 rated players. The groupings are done in such a way that this will happen if the higher rated (lower numbered seed) will always win their match in the early rounds. If the lower rated player upsets the higher seed, then they get to carry on in that person's place. They earned it, right?

18. mája 2006, 13:02:39
Hrqls 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
gambler104: *nod* i prefer that type of seeding as well

the problem with random game types though is that you dont know the ranking of the player, so you cant base the seeding on the ranking

(thanks for posting the way of seeding though, i forgot i asked about that :) i didnt know it was different per game type)

18. mája 2006, 21:09:08
Hrqls 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Marfitalu: is there used 'no average' at the moment ? or is there used the rating at which everyone starts ? (which is 1300 ? or 1500 ? or .. ?)

19. mája 2006, 16:10:47
MidnightMcMedic 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Maybe this should be taken to the Feature Requests board?

19. mája 2006, 17:03:11
Hrqls 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
Marfitalu: but how is are the players seeded when they are norated ?

19. mája 2006, 17:04:09
Hrqls 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
MidnightMcMedic: nah .. its not a feature request .. just a discussion about how the tournaments are done

we can take it to another board though if you want, 'brainking' or 'general chat' or any fellowships board :)

19. mája 2006, 18:54:14
Czuch 
Subjekt: Re: Minimum number of players
MidnightMcMedic: I was under the impression that feature requests or discussions about something that has its own board IE 'tournaments' or 'backgammon' should be brought to that board and not to the 'general' feature requests?

20. mája 2006, 15:06:07
baddessi 

21. mája 2006, 07:40:15
MidnightMcMedic 
I must have gotten lost in the thread. I thought you guys were asking for a feature to the tournaments. Sorry, carry on with the friendly discussion

21. mája 2006, 21:06:13
nabla 

22. mája 2006, 15:23:56
Antje 

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