(V): THE JUNK MAIL
HAS STARTED TO ARRIVE
THANKING ME FOR BEING A LOYAL SUPPORTER OF LABOUR OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS

FUNNY IVE NEVER VOTED LABOUR IN MY LIFE

Sidoarjo Mud Flow....

".....is a mud volcano[1] in the subdistrict of Porong, Sidoarjo in East Java, Indonesia that has been ongoing since May 2006. Approximately 2,500 m³ (88,000 cubic feet) of mud — equivalent to the contents of a dozen Olympic-size swimming pools — are expelled per day.[2] It is expected that the flow will continue for the next 30 years.

...There was controversy as to what triggered the eruption and whether the event was a natural disaster or not. According to PT Lapindo Brantas it was the May 2006 earthquake losers that triggered the mud flow eruption, and not their drilling activities.....

...In June 2008, a report released by British, American, Indonesian, and Australian scientists [13] concluded that the volcano was not a natural disaster, but the result of oil and gas drilling..."

30 YEARS possibly beginning caldera formation.

The Yangtze River and it's dolphins.

Artful Dodger: Ever heard of how butterfly's can cause hurricanes. How our natural species of squirrel has been nearly replaced by an American import.

I don't call a countrywide event .... "immediate". The Black plague killed .. .. lots and lots due to ships carrying rats. Back then no-one knew what was causing it through ignorance of medical matters.

We are part of this planet I believe.. our bones being made from it.

Artful Dodger:

Don't you think the "immediate" environment is part of the planet too? When CO2 is released, where does it go? Outer space? Into a cave? We have removed 2/3 of the world's forests, that means 66% less CO2 consumption by plants. At the same time we have pumped tons and tons of CO2 that was trapped in fossil fuels. It took nature millions of years to transform that CO2 into hydrocarbons. We have changed the balance literally overnight.

We look at the problem from a purely consumerist point of view. We want to keep consuming fossil fuels, plastics, consumer products, etc. The pollution that comes in the process is going somewhere, and it is not outside this planet. What you call "immediate" environment is the planet itself. All it comes down to is the fact that the middle class wants to consume and not feel guilty about it. So we make excuses. Scientists are wrong (now, there is something really, really new in history) so let's keep the status quo. Let's drill some more, release a bit here and there. In 300 years, it will be somebody else's problem. We will be dead by then, so the resposibility is not ours anyway.

Artful Dodger:

> Man's overall impact on the planet and climate IS insignificant.

I guess the destruction of forests, the disappearance of thousands of species, the pollution of the oceans, all those garbage dumps, those clouds of emmissions visible from satellites in outer space, the high incidence of cancer and other diseases, etc. All that is "insignificant". The fact that deforestation and desertification have been out of control for decades is insignificant. Anything as long as we can justify continuing to burn fossil fuels. I am sure that "Climategate" has now made it OK to destroy our planet. Who cares anyway? It is the poor who live in deserts and die of hunger. As long as the middle class can keep consuming, "environmental concerns" are "insignificant". It is all lies spread by left-wing socialist scientists anyway. The planet is OK and our grandkids will live in an eternal oasis.

Artful Dodger: The carbon credit was/is and always be a farce is true. That we should keep the planet clean is true... have you ever heard of acid rain?

Artful Dodger: If you mean the extreme Climate worriers are probably going to be proves wrong.. you are probably right.

If you are saying that mankind's impact on the planet is insignificant then I must remind you of a thing called combined effect. One instance of this is in India, where a certain area that produces much food is having problems now with it's wells used for irrigation. They just keep having to dig deeper.

Why... more farms.

The dustbowl of USA history was caused by bad farming practices that ended up with the topsoil blowing away. Nature had some part.. but the removal of hedgerows was a bad idea.

(V): it looks as though they have released that video of the shooting of unarmed civilians and children to the world..

it was on our news this morning

Snoopy: I'm wanting a hung parliament.

pleeeeaaasssseeee

Artful Dodger: You will always get the extremists saying the world is going to end, we've had it off the religious element for years.. The anti-christ is coming, end of the world..etc, etc, etc..... ... year 2k.. I worked for a firm making sure that computer systems of various companies would not cave by the 00 digit problem of old mainframe systems, yet some guy had the idea that toasters would stop working.. even though they had no chips in them.

Regardless of those extremists on all sides, we cannot deny mankind's impact. I saw a documentary on the British coast remarking on how when someone thought it was a bright idea to turn salt marsh into farmland it ruined a natural harbour which dried up through it's sea water supply being disturbed by the new farmland.

It's no good saying quoting the doom and gloomers and saying Global warming is wrong because their figures were inaccurate.

btw... that story is two years old and from what I gather to do with a few weeks of cold weather in one part of the arctic.

As the source says I'm looking at...

"It's called freaky Arctic weather.

"All of the action is in the Bering Sea," Serreze said.

"For the past several weeks, we've been under a rather unusual weather pattern, a cold pattern, that's given us this late spurt in ice growth in the Bering Sea. If you look at the rest of the Arctic Ocean proper, it is very warm."

The Bering Sea, between Alaska and Russia, is caught between two low-pressure systems.

"This is weather," said Serreze. "Don't conflate this with climate."

Serreze notes that on the Atlantic side of the Arctic, ice is low.

However, online climate change sceptics have seized on the data as proof that global warming is a hoax. By Thursday morning, hundreds of Twitter posts were referencing Serreze's graph - many linking to a Sydney Morning Herald blog that displays the graph without explanation or context.

"An inconvenient fact," reads one post. "Arctic sea ice back to normal - oops."

Another asked: "Will the hysterical eco-nuts be called out? NO!"

Right-wing think-tanks such as the U.S.-based Heartland Institute had stories on the graph, but without comment from Serreze. Other online articles quoted climate skeptics as if they were the authors of the research."

http://www.thefreepress.ca/article/GB/20100401/CP10/304019901/-1/FERNIE/northern-sea-ice-growth-a-fluke-not-end-of-climate-change-researcher&template=cpArt

Pedro Martínez: The Daily Mail has reverted back to being a tabloid.. Shame, it did have a period of being a good newspaper some 20 years back.

.. then again, some 60 years back it was supporting the pro Nazi movement in the UK, before that was banned.

Swings and roundabouts!!

Artful Dodger: So you're quoting Daily Mail… . Now I see where you look for info. What comes next? The Sun?

GTCharlie: ??? Enlighten me.

Artful Dodger: I hear talk that the Tea party movement could either be a bonus to the GOP or a curse. As votes could be deflected.

You don't need a third party, you guys from both main just need to join and say "we want change".. this fighting between parties tends to forget one thing.

You are all Americans.

March together. Protest together. But as long as there is "us and them" you'll let those who are gravy training this constant infighting win and the American people will lose out.

btw.. what is conservatism? It seems to be different from the UK variety.

(V):in today's world, JFK wouldn't run for president. He would have been court-martial-ed over his incident with PT=109

Artful Dodger: lol I don't think so... but we could both nit pick over that for a few lifetimes.

Maybe by then the political system would have changed and something better than democracy will be worked out.

Artful Dodger: I think you've taken over that title.

*ducks*

Artful Dodger: Some of those are in jail, or at least prosecuted and found guilty. But, probably like over here.. they claim it's within the rules.

My point is, it's no good making out the Democrats to be worse then the Republicans, or nit pick over little things. In the end, it's how much good generally they achieve.

... If JFK was in power today, would his womanising be appreciated, or that he steered the world away from a nuclear war that no one would have won.

Even the righteous sin.

100 Examples of GOP Corruption, Lies, and Ignorance (Part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE3WM9qJUf0&feature=fvw

part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeDb0ElJSnU

part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag720jQSXo8

By The Angry Republican.

I am sure people really, really believed that our western capitalist systems could change; specially with somebody like a "liberal" president in the United States.

The fact that for the last 150 years the same two political streams (centre-right liberals and right wing conservatives) have ruled the world really points to how easily and how well western society can change.

In most countries middle class men would rather cut off their left nut rather than do anything that would change the status quo. I am sure the rich will give up their wealth and power and help the poor and the dispossed out of the goodness of their hearts. After all, Christian values and love for one's fellow man are the guiding principles of western society!

Artful Dodger: 50 out of how many operating in Washington that are employed by corporations?? I still remember the story of how Nixon delayed the law on seatbelts due to pressure by the car manufacturers who were complaining that it would cost more to make cars.

Artful Dodger: Your original post said no more corporate lobbyists.

"He's like every other politician. He says one thing, he does another. There's no change in Washington. It's business as usual."

And as such the Republicans in Washington you are saying were no different. They lied, contradicted, etc.

No new news there.

Artful Dodger: You should read your links....

"The Obama administration's limitation on lobbyists isn't a direct ban. Lobbyists are still allowed to be a part of the administration working on areas that they have not lobbied on."

Artful Dodger: He said corporate lobbyists according to the site you are C&P from. Has he hired 50 corporate lobbyists?

Artful Dodger: No corporate lobbyists, federal lobbyists??

Is this the same as in the UK, where former MP's are offering their contacts to companies, making claims that are not true????

Artful Dodger: So he employed 4 more.. I find that hardly big news compared to the number already working to pervert USA democracy.

Artful Dodger: Are these lobbyists he's hired corporate ones as discussed in his own words? Doesn't sound like it.

the Ralph Nader incident and the menthol cigarette episode are disgusting

Tuesday: maybe not, but it is , at least to me a very interesting link

Tuesday:as they label themselves... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Black_Caucus
some , especially the older generations, of all ethnic backgrounds,, are reluctant to join the melting pot

Artful Dodger: Which bit?

As for the birth of terrorism.. That is in dispute. Various groups from the world's history have been awarded that status. Islamic fighters for freedom, Jewish killers of Jewish collaborators with the Romans. The RCC in it's formation period when religion came armed with swords and fire.

Moses... the ten plagues. Could it be said that even though he just envisioned a natural event be terrorism, even though there was no way he could stop the eruption.. he used such sight as a means to plant terror in the heart of the Egyptians. That God was angry.

Ferris Bueller: I don't think some people would like Christ's return. The temple money changers, book sellers n' "send me 10 bucks to fight the devil" businesses would suddenly be redundant.

Maybe the Hippocratic oath would be more remembered rather than the dollar.

"Obama is not a brown-skinned anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You're thinking of Jesus." - John Fugelsang

Ferris Bueller: I'll give you an example.. The IRA was supported by outsiders, mostly through NORAID as well as support from Libya and other groups. Arms shipments came from primarily the USA and Libya as well as deals with arms dealers in Europe.

They even managed to smuggle small arms on the QE2!!

One guy got caught trying to buy SAM's...

Gaddafi gave help as a result of the British support to an attack killing his adopted daughter by the USAF.

Artful Dodger: Ok.. let me put it this way. Since when were people of middle eastern origin the only ones to blow up or hijack planes. The first one was in 1931, there have been over 600 hijackings. At one time 41 on average per year.

(V):   Good point.  Our "bowl" of terrorist is also quite big.  The "right" only chooses to focus only Muslim terrorists which is certainly a PART of things.  This obsession, though, is because they really don't want to acknowledge domestic terrorism that hits close to home for them.  Besides, others brought up profiling of black people in LA.  That subject opened the door to discuss domestic matters in the US.

Artful Dodger: Perhaps you should read back to WWII

http://www.spectacle.org/yearzero/tribunal.html

"....Unlike Quirin, which was unanimous, two justices dissented in Yamashita. Justice Murphy argued that the Fifth Amendment guarantee of due process applied to enemy belligerents:

The immutable rights of the individual, including those secured by the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment, belong not alone to the members of those nations that excel on the battlefield or that subscribe to the democratic ideology. They belong to every person in the world, victor or vanquished, whatever may be his race, color or beliefs. They rise above any status of belligerency or outlawry. They survive any popular passion or frenzy of the moment. No court or legislature or executive, not even the mightiest army in the world, can ever destroy them. Such is the universal and indestructible nature of the rights which the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment recognizes and protects when life or liberty is threatened by virtue of the authority of the United States.

Justice Murphy concluded that the defendant "was rushed to trial under an improper charge, given insufficient time to prepare an adequate defense, deprived of the benefits of some of the most elementary rules of evidence and summarily sentenced to be hanged." He said that the use of military tribunals to try a "fallen enemy commander" formed part of a cycle of vindictiveness and retribution and represented an abandonment of American ideals. "To conclude otherwise is to admit that the enemy has lost the battle but has destroyed our ideals."....."