Don't even think that al qaida isn't smart enough to realize profiling tactics.. they will easily find Anglo Saxon recruits or black Americans .in fact wasn't that Christmas bomber black?

Artful Dodger: And of the European Muslims? Who are 2nd or 3rd generation but still (thanks to bad policies in the west & those would pervert Islam in order to spread hate) ... what then?

That's why everyone gets scanned.

Plus, false passports can be gotten.

Artful Dodger:

> I wouldn't decide. I'm just an average Joe. But experts in this area know what to look for. Profiling can be, and is, beneficial.

I suppose profiling helps when the looks of a person dictate their behaviour.

A few years back I travelled to South Korea. I went through the airport in a connection travelling to Asian countries. I am Latin American and I have tattoos on both my forearms.

As I am walking through the airport this "security" moron starts hassling me. How much money I am carrying, what is my destination, give me your passport, etc. All based on my looks. I am a chemist by profession and taught college courses in chemistry. I suppose profiling is beneficial. It helps some half-wit moron decide who is and who is not a criminal based on looks alone. I wonder how many Japanese tourists he stopped that day!

Of course, every time I have travelled to Europe they "lose" my luggage. They simply flag it for searching for a few days and I always end up without my things for a few days. Single Latin American male with tattoos travelling alone. Must be a drug-dealing murderer of sorts. I should just tattoo "scarface" to my forehead.

Profiling is beneficial, specially when the person doing the profiling comes with their own racial prejudices, stereotypes or just plain old-fashioned paranoia.

In the meantime, my travelling experience is crap and that is why I refuse to visit the US as a tourist in spite of my family begging me to go.

Artful Dodger:   How would you decide which Muslims were Middle Easterners, or would you have to target all dark skinned Muslim?  (serious question, not rhetorical)

Artful Dodger: That would be who? Americans annoyed with the USA or some religious group, etc..... As most terrorist attacks on the USA homeland have been committed by Americans. If you go back 10-20 years then most of the terrorism happening was by Europeans in Europe, those unhappy with the way the world is and of those who won't listen to them.

.. 99.999%+ of those who are middle eastern are just normal everyday Joes. That's why the policy here is everyone gets scanned.

Artful Dodger:   How do you tell Albanian Muslims from the "average" white guy?  How would you feel to be a member of such a profiled group?

Artful Dodger: what about Bosnian Muslims, and Chechen Muslims or Albanian Muslims?? light skin , blue eyes

http://www.upi.com/Daily-Briefing/2010/03/10/Jihad-Jane/UPI-41871268228371/
how about the latest "jihad jane"?

Artful Dodger: Israel is in the doghouse at the moment re the UK government.. for using fake UK passports in the murder of one of their targets.

The scanners are being brought into service as a means of not having to frisk people. Everyone gets scanned is to be the rule here I believe.

(V):  That's what I understand also.  More small businesses will be able to afford insurance for their workers under the new system.  Large business will pick up a lot of the tab.

Bwild: ONLY if you choose to have health insurance for your employees and in the current type of market. You will not be fined for having no employee insurance, but hopefully with a BIGGER FREE market, where like with car insurance, etc you can shop around .. .. we have sites that compare the market here for you on car/home insurance, etc. .... .... and hence get cheaper insurance policies.

You at least have a viable choice, instead of no choice due to cost.

The alternative.. private health insurance as the primary health care system which has been pricing health insurance out of the range of small businesses for a long time, with no real control over pricing.

I hear that a prescription for paracetamol can cost $20 dollars via a docs... strange for something (if true) that I can buy basically anywhere for less than 50c

as a business owner I know that as it stands now I will not be able to hire any new employees and after perusing some of the guidlines how to afford the ones I already employ. I can only take so much out of profits, before my business becomes capital starved. I can only raise prices so much until I price myself out of the market. So my choice is to downsize, which has the effect of raising the unemployment rate, and having fewer employees means I am not producing the same amount of goods. In this bill I am to pay 65% of the insurance cost of the employees that I have and I will receive a tax credit of 35%. Big deal I still have to initially put out the 65% but after the dust settles I am still responsible for 30%. That is the portion of my payment that I do not receive reimbursement. That comes straight off the bottom line. But there is more. If I choose to downsize and lay workers off and they draw unemployment, my unemployment insurance will go up because I have people drawing unemployment. The rippling effects of this health care bill will be tidal waves in the future as we small business owners try to comply, within the bounderies of this bill. More empy shops will line the street here in Osage Beach. Unemployment will rise. If anyone that voted for this bill had actually studied the economic impact just within there district then they would not have voted for this bill. Thank You Ike for voting no! Overall the american people did not want this, but we were not listened to so beware to the democrats, who said yes, for I can see come next election you standing in the ever growing line of unemployment.

(V): but in the real world...thats not how it works...it forces a raise in expenditures lowering the already slim profit margins.

Ferris Bueller: So basically, small businesses are penalised by the current health system for being small. They may want to provide health insurance, but the cost is higher than medium/large firms pay thanks to extra charges by brokers, etc... on average 18% more per employee.

So, if small businesses have access to a greater market then the cost goes down, the % of small businesses that provide cover would be higher.. hopefully.. as the cost would be less.

Makes sense.

Artful Dodger: Studied statistics at college to 'A' level standard. That's why I'm not a big fan of 'polls' unless there is a BIG sample and a BIG % difference.

Artful Dodger:   That's one statement that we can agree on.  They cite the polls when they show agreement w/ their position & demonize them when they don't.

Artful Dodger: I think you need something like the Tax Payers Alliance. No party allegiance, just the desire to expose government hogwash.

Bwild: exempt from paying towards healthcare costs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5V66m5FaA

Will make it clear.

Artful Dodger: The error use to be quite bad, sample sizes usually being small. Not sure now if they have been able to work out the error % to a smaller figure, but it could be as high as 10%.

They are just for show.

(V): exempt from what? an excerpt from a speech means nothing to me, as I rarely commit them to memory. maybe if you were to show us the context of your meaning, it would be a little more understandable.

Bwild: Guess the memory of the writers forgets what caught the Republican wanna be pres in the talks in TV.. small business are exempt. McCain tried to score a point with this and got wedged by the reply that small business are exempt, big businesses pay.

Guess they rely on people not having a memory.

heres whats being said in my area regarding yobamas health care plan.
http://www.lakenewsonline.com/opinions/letters_to_the_editor/x1838107489/Lake-View-Independent-business-assn-disappointed-in-health-care-vote-lauds-Skelton

Artful Dodger: Unfortunately, they usually don't do enough to give a reasonable accuracy, the error margins seeing the closeness (in some cases) is to much for the polls to considered accurate.

Unless you can find a poll with a low error margin (5% or less) Do they have ones with that low error these days?

Artful Dodger: I find polls that say more like the idea. I guess it depends on who, where and when it was done.

can you believe that this "comic" has had as much, if not more influence on our modern day language?

It isnt any wonder that kids can't spell/speak correctly...

A 80 billion pounds a year industry.. chocolate. Just where does the cocoa beans that makes one of our favourite treats come from. More importantly.. who harvests it?

Free market trading equating in child slavery. Yet despite rules and regs in most western countries banning the importation of goods made from slave or prison labour, most of the cocoa bean trade is tainted. Fathers, uncles, etc selling children.

All done in the name of profit and low cost products.

Artful Dodger: Tort reform is a must.. but I have to say, your health companies like monopolies. I guess that they have been fighting to maintain them.

Over here in the UK we have a monopolies commission to stop such things happening.

Artful Dodger: Well, I doubt the whole system will be overhauled. I must say though it takes guts to challenge your health companies and their lobbyists

So.. while 40 odd million Americans go without health insurance and your health insurance companies keep upping their charges.. it's still a matter of politics?

You guys really need to get over this "socialist" thingy.

I don't get it.. your health system is a mess in that it is costing you in the USA too much, too many cases of people being turned down for treatment over silly reasons and many people are suffering due to lack of access to decent health care.

With everyone required to pay into the health system, that to me cuts down on what the current payers have to pay.

imho

Bernice: yes

Vikings: but can they take legal action against Obama.....that is my question.

Artful Dodger: have you seen this?

http://saywhatyoureallymean.blogspot.com/2008/07/very-divisive-obama-quotes.html