GTCharlie:

> Cuba made their choices also, there didn't have to be an embargo

Yes, Cuba made its choices. I think that Cuba becoming a socialist country was unavoidable. There are those who will say that if the US had taken a more moderate approach then maybe Cuba would not have gone over to ask for help from the USSR. I disagree. I think in the end Cuba would have ended up where it was, with or without pressure from the USA.

> the USA are mean,evil and bad.

I think that the Cold War had little to do with being good or bad. I think both the USA and the USSR saw an opportunity to acquire wealth and power. They went ahead to compete for territory, natural resources, etc. A lot of smaller, weaker countries got squeezed in between. Some countries became communist, others remained capitalist. In the end the USA remained strong and powerful on account of its massive banking and lending economics. The USSR collapsed because they relied in commodity production (oil, gas and steel) and commodity prices collapsed in the 1980s.

The USA did what it had to do to protect the wealth and power of those that run its country. It meant promoting fascism and dictatorship in those countries that fell under American influence. The Soviets tried to do the same, and failed miserably at it. Both the USA and the Soviet Union oppressed people, because that is how the powerful react when they want to retain control ovr the political and economic systems.

Today we have the aftermath of the Cold War. Saddam Hussain, Osama Bin Laden, Iran's Ayatollahs, Fidel Castro, etc. These are men that got their start during the Cold War. Some fought for the USA, some for the Soviet Union. Others arose out of these countries failed foreign policies.

Once we strip ideological excuses (freedom, democracy, revolution, end of exploitation, etc.) the Cold War was an exercise in the pursuit of power and brutality. Ultimately the Cold War did not really end. It was merely put on hold. Soon enough Russia will rise again on account of its massive commodities production and the world's need for those commodities. China is getting richer day by day and eventually they will want to rise to the top of the echelon of power. The USA will react by trying to stop them, and the whole thing will start all over again. That is why these countries refuse to give up their nuclear weapons and their WMDs. They are insurance for the unavoidable "Cold War" that will return at some point. It is unavoidable because human nature is the same and the rich and powerful are as greedy as ever. In the end it is the poor and the innocent who pay the price. Millions died during the Cold War, and not even one of them was one of the rich and powerful who ran the show.

Übergeek 바둑이: you got to remember though, Cuba made their choices also, there didn't have to be an embargo.They didn't have to get in bed with the U.S.S.R. yeah yeah the USA are mean,evil and bad. but that was the reality of the situation. Again, just like Berlin, not too many were defecting to Cuba and or the Warsaw pact. never heard of anyone(except maybe Vesco) boating to Havana. The Cold war ? no one won? I think Eastern Europe won, sure bad things happened on both sides, but would we even have Brainking if the cold war was still on?

The Col:

> not sure how it has come along in the years since

Cuba is no paradise, but it is certainly better than it used to be. The big problem with Cuba is the disparity between how tourists live and how the locals live. Tourist resorts are really like a paradise. White coral sand beaches, 5 star hotels, great food, great music, great cigars, etc. For the locals it is a different story. There is a lot of poverty in Cuba and in many places people have seen little improvement in their lives in the last 20 years.

However, Cuba has certain things that no other Latin american country has. They have universal healthcare and everyone is entitled to the best healthcare the island can afford. It is so good that people go there for treatment from all over the world and "medical" tourism is one of the rising industries in Cuba. The healthcare system is one of the best in the world, in spite of the island's economic problems.

Cuba also has the best educational system in the western hemisphere. Every Cuban citizen is entitled to free education at any level, from kindergarten to post-doctorate degrees in universities. Compare that with the cost of education in Canada and the US and Cuba comes on top simply because it has a higher percentage of its population attending university. The only drawback to that is that people often have to work in occupations not even related to what they studied because the state cannot guarantee work for everyone. It was funny to be driven aroudn by a taxi driver with a Ph.D. in Spanish literature. High education means high expectations and many Cubans are unhappy with the lack of opportunity that the state can provide. Yet, they are educated, much more so than most other Latin American countries.

Cuba's biggest problems are a lack of infrastructure and viable manufacturing industries. The economic embargo left Cuba with little market for its exports, and the biggest consumer in the world (the US) cannot do business with Cuba. The situation will probably change in the next few years since the People's Republic of China has been investing heavily in Cuba and China is the new emergent market in the world.

The old guard (both in Cuba and the US) is aging, and with time their inflexible positions will give way on both sides. I doubt that the economic embargo will remain there for long and if George H.W. Bush and Henry Kissinger pass away then the main ideological opponents of a more open policy will not be there any more.

Übergeek 바둑이: I was in Cuba for vacation in 93',stayed at a resort formerly used by Russian millitary.The beaches were beautiful, but their hospitality industry was in its infancy. Apt buildings used bedsheets to shield the units from the balconies, workers were trucked in every morning jammed into openback trucks, lousy food, even lousier coffee, hoookers and cigar sellers jumped out of the bushes as you walked the streets...........the potential was there for a thriving beach vacation industry, not sure how it has come along in the years since.Very friendly people though

Übergeek 바둑이: I'm glad there is a law on that.. Pavements are a lot clearer then they use to be. We also have laws here banning dogs from children's playground areas (the fenced/gated off variety) simply as some people just won't respect others. ... Yet at the same time, legislation in certain areas is disappearing. Some rules are just dumb and a waste of money.

Cuba does have trade with the UK. Not sure how much, but I know I can go to a traditional tobacconist and buy a Cuban cigar.

Bernice:
> what about Brazil and their seat in congress clown?

That goes to show that people are so fed up with politics that if they are going to have a circus act, they might as well put a real circus professional in the show.

The question is: Is the Brazilian clown better than Italy's porn star? Italians did elect La Cicciolina, a notorious porn star, into parliament.

A few countries have what could be called clowns in power, but what about Brazil and their seat in congress clown?

Pedro Martínez:
> “socialism” and “dictatorship”

I suppose that most people's understanding of things like capitalism, socialism, democracy and dictatorship comes from whatever they learned in their high school social studies class.

In real life (that is, outside a little textbook) the lines are blurred. Capitalism has little to do with democracy, and socialism has little to do with dictatorship.

Sweden is a socialist country, and it is hardly a dictorship. Saudi Arabia is a capitalist country, and it is also a dictatorship. China is run by the Communist party, it is a dictaorship, and it is also a capitalist country. Canada, the US and the UK are a lot more "socialist" than the citizens of those countries would care to admit. The legal sytems in western countries are cumbersome. The bureacracy is huge. The government is in every sphere of life, from healthcare to laws that restrict where a dog can poop.

Most Americans woudl be surprised to know that the American government is more socialist than the government of the People's Republic of China. In terms of capitalism, it is easier to open and run a business in China than it is in moset western "capitalist" countries.

I have been to Cuba. Most of the Cuban economy is in the hands of private companies that run the hospitality businesses (hotels, resorts, etc.) In all of Cuba there is not a single statue or portrait of Fidel Castro. In fact, the only place to find his picture is in souvenir shops for tourists. Of all the heroes of the revolution, the only one whose likeness appears anywhere is Che Guevara. There is a big portrait of him in the building that houses Radio Havana (Cuba's braodcasting company). Other than that you would have to look really hard to find statues or portraits of him.

Most Cubans are ambivalent with respect to their countries situation. They know that Cuba is poor, but that is because after nearly 50 years of economic blockade the US (and msot of its allies) refuse to take a more moderate stance towards Cuba.

People have short memories. Most Cuban political prisoners went to the US during the Carter and Regan administrations. The Carter and Regan administrations were putting too much pressure on Cuba, so the Cuban government opened the jails, put all prisoners (political or otherwise) in a boat (the Mariel) and sent them to the US. There are still political prisoners left in Cuba. Mostly those who did plot or carry out terrorist attacks (mostly bombings and sabotage).

For sure there are people who are detained for purely political reasons. But then, most countries do that. Anyone who doubts it has to look at political prisoners and "unlawful combatants" captured during the War on Terror.

The reality of Cuba is simple. The US figured that Cuba would remain a "protectorate" just like Puerto Rico. Cuba chose a different path. Right wing American's are too proud to accept that other countries could chose a way of life different from the American way of life. So they try to squeeze Cuba hoping that some day the government there will collapse.

If western countries cared about dictatorship, they would have stopped doing busines not just with Cuba, but also with most countries in the Middle East, the People's Republic of China, as well as dictatorships in Latin America, Africa, Asia, etc. If being a dictatorship were the defining cause for stopping business with a country, the world economy would be paralized because most countries are dictatorships.

Cuba being a dictatorship has nothing to do with it. The real reason is Cuba not doing what the American government wants. If the Cuban government sold its natural resources cheap and let the people be used for the profit of big corporations, then Cuba would be best friends with the US. For decades the US was quite happy to give money, weapons and CIA training to dictatorships in Latin America. Simply because those dictatorships worked for the benefit of big American corporations. Cuba refused to do that, so they are the "bad guy".

Pedro Martínez: Socialism comes in many formats from state to pure ownership by the people such as communes. Dictatorships vary from one party to one system (such as could be said of the USA two party system)...

Did they in history classes teach you about why things happened or just what happened?

(V): Yup, do study. You can start with the meaning of the words “socialism” and “dictatorship”.

Pedro Martínez: ??? for studying history???

It's one of those subjects they teach at school you know.

Pedro Martínez: ROFL.....I love your sense of humour

(V): I hope there is a cure for that… If I were religious, I would post a prayer for you on the Thoughts and Prayers board…

Pedro Martínez: I'm sure the 200,000+ killed by the free democratic South Korean government that the USA installed would agree with you. Or the other 1000's upon thousands killed, maimed and tortured when the 'free' have not agreed with the right of a people to choose or go through the difficult process of self governing.

from what I read about the history of the Cuban revolution and the aftermath.. Castro only went to the Russians and declared the country as communist because the USA companies put pressure on the USA government to overthrow Castro so they could pillage the Cuban people and country again.

.. They didn't like losing out on the profits they had enjoyed under the USA placed dictator. As for the political prisoners.. approx 650 attempts on your life can make a man and his government a little paranoid.

I'm sure those in the USA who had their lives ruined by free fellow countrymen through the McCarthy kangaroo court would agree with you also.

Pedro Martínez:

“Dictatorship of the proletariat“

"Dictatorship of the bourgeoisie"

It is all the same crap. Here is a political and economic elite. They have power and want to keep it in their hands. So they oppress everyone around them.

I saw it in Guatemala where I was born. The rich oppressed the poor and used them as cheap labour. When the poor figured that they had enough they rose up, and the rich responded by throwing the army at them. The CIA figured that communists were taking over, so they pumped money and weapons into the military and turned Guatemala into a Fascist dictatorship. The rich got richer, and the poor got screwed.

Hungary and Czechoslovakia were oppressed by the Soviet Union when they had had enough of "Communism". The question is: "Who had the power and why did they oppress?"

It is the same: capitalism and communism are equally oppressive. Stalin sent 9 million Ukrainians to their death in the name of the revolution. Our western "democracies" (mostly represented by the US, the UK and France) sent 6 million Vietnamese and 3 million Koreans to their deaths in the name of freedom and democracy. Every oppressive system uses ideology to justify itself. In the end, oppressors are oppresors, no matter how hard they try to justify their actions.

People and their political systems are defined not by their ideologies but by their actions. Ideology is just empty justification. Higher principles life freedom, democracy, equality, liberation and revolution are abstract concepts and the powerful use them to justify lining their pockets with money and pursuing political power.

(V): I'm sure the Cuban political prisoners would agree with you… and I'm sure you'd love to live in a country like Cuba, North Korea, or in any pre-1989 communist country. Socialism taken to its best…

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. “Dictatorship of the proletariat“… ever heard of that? Of course you haven't, how could you…

Pedro Martínez: Yes.. opinions.

My opinion differs as does the opinion of people on Castro. Therefore there is disagreement.

As you have pointed out before.. experts can be wrong.

(V): You have no arguments. If you read the Wikipedia article on Castro, you would find out that both claims regarding his dictatorship I have posted are backed by lots of sources and expert opinions.

Tuesday: Sometimes people like to relax and doze to a good film. Or as is common in the UK.. Cricket. It's an intrusion for the advertisers to break that relaxed mood just because someone wants to tell you 95% of 68 men think brand 'X' razor is better than all the rest!!

Pedro Martínez:

... "Castro himself has been described as a dictator."

doesn't mean he is one.

I could describe Palin as a fascist money grabbing opportunist... doesn't make her a fascist does it!!

(V): So if you like quoting Wikipedia so much, why don't you quote the most important information relating to the subject? I.e. Castro being a socialist dictator?

“In 1965 he became First Secretary of the Communist Party of Cuba, and led the transformation of Cuba into a one-party socialist republic.”
“On May 1, 1961, Castro declared Cuba a socialist state and officially abolished multiparty elections.”

“Many observers refer to Castro as a dictator […].”
“Despite his denouncement of dictatorships, Castro himself has been described as a dictator.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro

Fulgencio Batista y Zaldívar (Spanish pronunciation: [fulˈxenθjo βaˈtista i θalˈdiβar]; January 16, 1901 – August 6, 1973) was a Cuban President, dictator, and military leader closely aligned with and supported by the United States. He served as the leader of Cuba from 1933–1944, and 1952–1959, before being overthrown as a result of the Cuban Revolution.[2]

Batista initially rose to power as part of the 1933 "Revolt of the Sergeants" that overthrew the government of Gerardo Machado, becoming the Army Chief of Staff, with the rank of colonel, and effectively controlling the five-member Presidency. He maintained this control until 1940, when he was himself elected President of Cuba, serving until 1944. From 1944-1952 he lived in the United States, returning to Cuba as leader of a U.S. backed coup that preempted the 1952 elections in which Batista was running a distant third.

Throughout the 1950s, Batista's corrupt and repressive regime systematically profited from the exploitation of Cuba's commercial interests, in partnership with U.S. corporations and the American Mafia.[3] As a result, for three years Fidel Castro's July 26th Movement and other rebelling elements led a guerrilla uprising against Batista's regime which culminated in his eventual defeat following the Battle of Santa Clara on New Year's Day 1959. Batista immediately fled the island with an amassed personal fortune.

I read that about 75% of Cuba's best arable land was owned by foreign individuals or companies before the revolution (mainly USA) How was that fair?

The Cuban Revolution was an armed revolt that led to the overthrow of dictator Fulgencio Batista of Cuba on January 1, 1959 by the 26th of July Movement led by Fidel Castro.[1]

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."

– U.S. President John F. Kennedy, interview with Jean Daniel, October 24, 1963

rod03801: So if the type of socialism got introduced that power over everything was in the power of the people (true worker ownership) you would say no?

Pedro Martínez: Yes I can disagree. He was a revolutionary just like in the American revolution.

As for a dictator.. tricky. That the USA was trying to kill and overthrow him every 5 minutes would have had an effect on how the government went along..

I think in the USA it's called Homeland security now.. or the CIA beforehand.

If a silly argument is about to start, it WILL be deleted, and NO warning messages will be sent

(V): So what? He was a socialist dictator, you can't deny that. So instead of dodging, why don't you go back to your original post and correct it, now that you have been thrown some knowledge.

(V): All I know is I don't want Socialism in MY federal govt, and I will definitely do MY part to not see it be there.

rod03801: You didn't. But it seems socialism only became a dirty word in the USA after WWII. If it wasn't for the Russians and China we'd found WWII a longer and more costly war.

Pedro Martínez: And why did Castro into power.. because the little guy was being trodden on by capitalists.

(V): Cold war talk? I'm not sure where I have mentioned Cold War. Though, I'm not sure I classify as "conservative element". But maybe. I probably fall under that category more closely than I do "liberal element". But it's a bit too "blanket-y" for me.

I don't have the energy to bother going into the "brainwashing" bit as far as socialism goes. He is pretty darn close to it though.

(V): There have been many socialist dictators. Castro, to name one.

rod03801: HA... I think the conservative element in the USA are just rehashing old cold war talk.

Can understand that considering how long the cold war went on for. The US gov had to justify building WMD's in the 10's of thousands somehow.

But.. saying that.. could it be said that this whole "socialist" thing in the USA is federal brainwashing you in the USA still (in part) accept??

(V): HA. He has found a way to combine the 2.

rod03801: I just find that the term "socialist dictator" is a bad inaccurate term. A socialist cannot be a dictator. By being one (such as the former USSR leaders) you are no longer socialist (especially considering some types of socialism are totally against having governments) but just a dictatorship.

Artful Dodger: Yeah, Hannity's radio show deals with that a lot. He always tries to get the libs that call to tell him one great thing that the anointed one has done or has been successful at. Very rarely do they list anything specific. They either turn to bashing the past president, or keep talking in generalizations. I love his show.

Artful Dodger: you said..."too lazy" and that is another reason why obesity is so rife in our communities.

Weekday,get up out of your comfortable chair and twiddle a nob for gods sake. LOL

It is amazing as you say how people want to be controlled, but then some find that is a turn-on.

(V): Doesn't bother me, you calling him that. He was a nasty president too.

I'm sure I have stated over time that I'm truly not a fan of either "defined" major politcal party in the USA.

I am NO fan of Bush.

rod03801: we have the same set up of Govt...3 levels that is...it is generally thought where I live that, that is one too many, so really the only one to go would have to be the Local one. The cost of the 3 is phenomenal and getting rid of the lower levels would save billions of dollars per year that could be put to better use.

as for the level of noise in TV advertising....what the hell is stopping pefople from using their "mute" button...

rod03801: So when Bush had protesters against the Iraq war moved away from the route he was taking to special zones.... he was being what??

A Fascist dictator?

(V): This country has an ingenious set up, (or it DID originally, unfortunately we have a socialist dictator who sees differently), where there are (simply) 3 levels of government. Federal, State, and Local. The Federal level was NEVER intended to INTRUDE upon our lives the way it is starting to do. Really, the level CLOSEST to the common person is the one that should be most involved in our lives. You don't like what your local government is doing, you either vote them out, or you MOVE to an area that is suitable to what you want.

Stupid votes like the volume of TV commercials irritate me, and if I find out that someone I CAN vote for was responsible for wasting the federal government's time with it then I will certainly keep that in mind with the next election. Now, the FCC is a totally different thing. THAT was set up for that sort of thing, and if THEY had regulated on it? Well, I would probably feel differently. (I'm NOT against people lowering the volume on commercials. LOL. I agree completely, it's annoying. It's NOT the job of the SENATE to decide that though.)

I find this an hilarious conversation on free speech

it sure as hell doesn't happen in here does it, when your opinions have to be passed by someone who thinks they are a higher being.

I wonder if this will get passed.....