The Col:

> nor the distrust many countries have of the Palestinians

I suppose Israel is so trustworthy that they deserve billions of dollars in war planes. Yet Palestinians are so untrustworthy that they don't deserve even a boat loaded with medicines and food.


> You can't erase decades of terrorism my friend.

Neither can we erase decades of oppression, imprisonment, bulldozing people's homes, expelling people from their own country, etc.

The point is made by you. Our governments trust and support Israel implicitly. Yet they deplore Palestinians and view them with distrust. So we use that distrust to justify unfair foreign policies and to justify giving Israel aid while Palestinians live in misery.

We keep making excuses for Israel. "It is the threat from Hamas and Hezbollah and Al Qaida. It is Iran and the moslems bent on destroying Israel." Now that we have made an excuse, let's justify letting Israel have WMDs, war planes, tanks, etc. After all, a Palestinian with a bomb strapped to his chest is much more deadly than 30 F15s!

In the end, our governments are hypocrites. Why can't they just say the simple truth. "We support Israel because of its strategic military position in the Middle East."

Übergeek 바둑이: In many regards we are known by the company we keep.The Palestinians hitched their boat to terrorists, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Übergeek 바둑이: No they don't.. not all. The UK government certainly doesn't, and many European governments have spoken out against the ghetto's that are the Palestinians homelands. Looking back at the history of UN resolutions against Israel.. the only stumbling block in decades gone that would have created a more probable atmosphere for peace by being able to put pressure on Israel to stop it's side of the crap has been the USA.

Whether they were decisions made purely by USA policy makers or with coercion/bribery from those within Israel is hard to work out.

(V):

> No they don't.. not all. The UK government certainly doesn't, and many European governments have spoken out against the ghetto's that are the Palestinians homelands.

I think the real problem is not whether our governments speak out or not against what Israel or the Palestinians do. Speaking out againts it accomplishes little if the condemnation is not backed up by real action.

The last time Israel invaded Lebanon 1,191 Lebanese civilians were killed, as opposed to 44 Israeli civilians. Israel acted with extreme brutality over the 1 month that the hostilities lasted. Most countries spoke out against Israel, but in reality did little to stop Israel from killing all those civilians. Canada, the UK and the US supported Israel fully and the US provided Israel with precision guided missiles during the cinflict. Most western nations gave full support to Israel and in the end it was pressure from Russia which forced the US Security Council to pass a resolution to force Israel to stop hostilities.

After hostilies ceased, nobody helped the Lebanese rebuild their destroyed towns except for Iran. Today the president of Iran is there and he is being welcomed as a hero.

If western countries had taken an impartial stance from the start, hostilies would have ended sooner and instead of further pushing the local population towards extremism, they would have shown the Lebanese and Palestinian people that the west is committed to lasting peace in the area. Instead people are lining the streets and welcoming the Iranian president because he was the only one to show any support for the local civilians affected in the conflict.

The UN imposed cease fire had little effect on Israel. The only way these people are going to stop fighting and create a lasting peace will be when all external countries act impartially and fairly. Unfortunately our western governments talk and condemn, but they don't back their talk with sanctions or with a halt of military aid.

Übergeek 바둑이: Again, you fail to state the provocation that began the military action, not to mention the human shields that were used in an effort to up casulties and thusly feed the propoganda value.Firing rockets from within homes and villages will provoke retaliation to the source, a very cowerdly form of warfare................do you have any idea how many rockets were fired towards Israel before any action was taken? how long do you think the USA would put up with rockets being fired at them before taking action? Israel has shown amazing restraint in that respect.

Nobody has their hands clean in the issue of a Palestinian solution.I know a solution will one day arrive, and be agreed upon, but if you insist on painting a one sided picture, there is more than enough paint left to complete the other side.The peace process will begin when both sides begin to look to the future, and plant the seeds for trust and respect.

The Col: Simple solution would be to move the borders a bit and let the Palestinians have one land instead of two bits.. I'm not talking about just Israel moving borders, but the neighbouring Arab states as well.

As for the rockets.. no that was not nice.. the human shields.. pointless.

But so were the use of cluster bombs.

Übergeek 바둑이: But they do talk (at least with the EU) with a lot of monetary aid given to the Palestinian people.

Artful Dodger: I state what I believe, others can sort out what the classification is, I couldn't care less