Grenv and others -

I am quite familiar with the ratings system that is used here at Brain King. I'm sure that a better rating system can be devised for A FEW of the games here, but for a SINGLE rating system, the one that we have works quite well for MOST games. Let me explain.

In games with a high degree of luck such as Backgammon, the stronger players will 'float' towards the top ratings in a much slower fashion then in 100% skill-based games like Chess. Also the difference between the rating of a top player and a beginner will be MUCH smaller, simply due to the luck factor. That is because the ratings difference effectively reflects an approximate % of time that a player can be expected to beat another player. For the U.S. Chess ratings system that is used here, if a player is rated 200 points above another, he can expect to win 75% of the time. 400 points difference is 90% and 800 points difference is 99%.

It is NOT an advantage to play a higher rated player OR a lower rated player UNLESS you KNOW that player to be over or under-rated. This can happen when one player plays just 2 or 3 other players ONLY over and over.

Of course you will gain more by beating a higher rated player and less for beating a lower rated player, but that is because it is harder to beat them. I'll give an example. Let's say in Backgammon with the doubling cube, you would normally beat another player 90% of the time. That means that you would gain 3.2 points for winning and lose 28.8 points for losing (if both players have established ratings). But because the doubling cube is NOT used, you are only able to beat them 75% of the time, due to the luck factor. That means that you would gain 8 points for winning but lose 24 points for losing. What that means is that your rating will eventually settle at about 200 points higher than the other player without the cube, whereas it would be 400 higher WITH the cube.

So the fact that there is luck involved just means that there will be more upsets in the tournaments, but does NOT mean that it is an advantage or a disadvantage to play a high or low rated player. It also means that the range of ratings from the top player to the lowest player will be much smaller than in 100% skill-based games.


Gary

Gary:

"... but does NOT mean that it is an advantage or a disadvantage to play a high or low rated player. It also means that the range of ratings from the top player to the lowest player will be much smaller than in 100% skill-based games."

Sorry I don't agree with this. The problem with playing lower rated players at backgammon with the USCF rating system is the reward/penalty favours the lower-rated player. You risk around 30 points to gain 2 when his chances of winning are say 40% - it just is not worth the risk. We were in this situation at Gold Token and in the end the top players refused to play the bottom players for this reason.

i agree, i hate refusing invites, but i don't want to play low rated players cause i've lost way more than 30 points when i lose. i guess the best way to go in the gammons here, is just to play ppl with ratings similar to yours, and play the low rated players at the other sites, i never refuse an invite at gt or dg, no matter what their rating is.

I guess Iplay for fun as much as ratings. I track my ratings and try to get them as high as I can. I usually try playing players that roughly within 300 points of my rating either above or below. I know i have been able to build up my rating by playing higher rated players and try to give lower rated players a chance to do the same. If I lose, I lose. That is my attitude in all games I play. I figure I am good enough to regain my rating points if I should lose to someone under me. I just enjoy playing. I feel higher rated players who refuse to play lower rated players are cowardly because they are afraid to lose rating points. Remember that it was higher rated players that accepted games against you when you started out that gave you an opportunity to gain your position. So why not give someone else the same chance.

hear hear BlazinBrian, i agree with you :)

i have never invited higher players, they invite me at gt, and i do play them, but the fibs rating is there, and it makes it easy not to refuse anyone, and when there are open invites in any game, and the player is much lower than me, i don't take the invite, cause i feel it's just as unfair to them. i enjoy playing the gammons, but don't like losing 50 points, it's too hard to get them back, and yes there is skill involved, but the dice play a bigger part. i'm still going to play, i was just trying to give my opinion on the rating system. i've been playing backgammon since the early 60s, i really like the game, and the ratings and best players list, is what makes this site and gt the ones that make most of us play here, i said most not all.

grenv, you said "I think the thing about backgammon is that the luck of the dice means that a weak player can beat a stronger player quite often."

seems to me that the easy solution would be to not play games that are based on luck.