http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html


I thought this was interesting.

Walter: Maybe it's not a bad idea to write congratulations with a D after all.

Take the word incredulous for example. Oxford Dictionary says it's to be pronounced /in'kredjeles/ with a Y sound as in 'Yes.' But it also says that the U.S. pronunciation doesn't have a Y sound, but a J (as in Jam) sound.

I know that whenever the sound /d/ and /j/ (it's not J as in Jam, but Y as in yes) come together, the sound /d3/ is pronounced. So if you read congratulations with a /d3/ sound, you have to change the spelling too. or, if you want to keep the spelling, you have to change the pronunciation!

About are and our, I have no trouble because I pronounce are /a:r/ and our, /aue/. But I know they both can be pronounced /a:r/.

Same is true about our and hour. They have the exact same pronunciation. But according to the context they're used in, one can tell which one is meant.

Oh, and no one answered my question regarding syllable divisions. How do I understand if it is /prog.ram/ or /pro.gram/ ?

can anyone tell me what this means someone sent me this by pm i have no idea why as i have never played or spoken to this person before ,

Que pasó

oh the person is from bolivia

Jason: It's spanish for "what happened?"

pauloaguia: thanks ,;)

Evolution of the English alphabet
http://janpeters.net/pics/stuff/alphabet.gif

Lamby: Very interesting a link. Thank you.

I have a question regarding the position of adverbs in a sentence with multi-word verbs.

For example, which one of the following sentences is O.K.?

1) In what could loosely be called your life, you've made a living watching others.

2)In what loosely could be called your life, you've made a living watching others.

3)In what could be loosely called your life, you've made a living watching others.

4)in what could be called loosely your life, you've made a living watching others.

************************

1)He may probably have gone out.

2)He probably may have gone out.

3)He may have probably gone out.

4)He may have gone out probably.

رضا: well in all respects رضا those sentences look foreign. I guess IF You had to write it out with the adverb that you chose.. I would say..

1) In what could loosely be called your life, you've made a living watching others.

and

3)In what could be loosely called your life, you've made a living watching others.

but I don't think a scholar would include the word loosely in the sentence.

In what could be called your life, you've made a living watching others.

*~*~*~*~

and in your second example none of the sentences make sense..

He may have gone out. would be the correct way of expressing this..

May and probably are different words, however they are being used the same .. Now.. if you switch and use probably your sentence would look like this..

He probably has gone out.

Hopefully I haven't confused ya..

ScarletRose: Nope, you haven't confused me at all. Well, the first sentence is a direct copy-paste from a movie named Saw II. So I wouldn't say it's wrong. Maybe not polite enough? If that's the problem with it, well that movie isn't a kind of 'polite' movie at all.

About the second example, I just figured it out that you're saying that because both may and probably have the same meaning.

So what if I change probably with already?

1)He may already have gone out.

2)He already may have gone out.

3)He may have already gone out.

4)He may have gone out already.

By the way, at the end of that movie instead of the normal End or The End, it says End Credits. Is it just another way of saying end, or the end, or does it mean something special?

رضا:
1. There is no grammatical problem with using the word loosely in that sentence, but it is a somewhat odd thing to want to say. I agree with ScarletRose that forms (1) and (3) sound most natural. I also agree that a scholar probably wouldn't use that sentence -- not because it's grammatically wrong, but simply because a scholar who wishes to insult someone can probably do so with more sophistication than the average twelve-year-old.

2. The reason why you wouldn't say something like "He may probably have gone out" is not that may and probably mean the same thing, but that they mean different things. If I say "He probably has gone out," I mean that I believe he has gone out (although it is possible that he has not), or at least that I think it is more likely that he has gone out than that he has not gone out. If I say "He may have gone out" I simply mean that it is possible that he has gone out; I'm not necessarily saying anything about how likely it is. If you used both words together, I wouldn't know what you were trying to say.

3. Regarding the word already, (1), (3) and (4) are all fine. I wouldn't say that (2) is strictly wrong, but it sounds strange. I think this is because in (2) it feels like the adverb already is attaching itself to may rather than to have gone.

4. Usually at the end of a movie you'll see the names of the director, producers, actors, camera operators, costume designers, set decorators, etc. This portion of the movie is called the "credits", because all these people are given credit for their roles in making the movie. Credits at the end of a movie are called "end credits"; credits at the beginning are "opening credits".

KotDB: Thank you for your thorough explanation. I really really thought may and probably had the same meaning. So they do cause different impressions when used. Knowing this, I will look for some words that I think are the same, and will post them here to see if they are or are not the same after all!

Since in Iran the teachers are not native speakers, students never get to know the small subtle points of the language.

About that movie, well let me share the whole thing with you so that you can have abetter understanding of the situation:

It starts with a man in a room, having a strange device around his neck. It looks like a sphere having been cut into two halves. One half is in front of his face, the other, at the back. And the two of them are full of nails that are pointed towards his face. Then suddenly a T.V. is turned on and we see a clip. In the clip a doll, with the voice of a man says:

Hello Michael.

I want to play a game.

So far, in what could loosely be called your life, you have made a living watching others.

Society would call you an informant, a rat, a snitch.

I call you unworthy of the body you possess...

of the life that you've been given.

Now, we will see if you are willing to look inward...

rather than outward...

To give up the one thing you rely on...

in order to go on living.

The device around your neck is a death mask.

The mask is on a spring timer.

If you do not locate the key in time...

the mask will close.

Think of it like a Venus flytrap.

What you are looking at right now is your own body...

not more than two hours ago.

Don't worry.

You're sound asleep and can't feel a thing.

Taking into account that you are at a great disadvantage here...

I am going to give you a hint as to where I've hidden the key.

So listen carefully. The hint is this...

it's right before your eyes.

[ And we see an X-ray photo of Michael's head with the key inside it. The key has been put in fron of one of his eyes.]

How much blood will you shed to stay alive, Michael?

Live or die. Make your choice.



So I guess now you know why that adverb, loosely, has been used. I think the speaker on that T.V. means that being and informant i snot really a job and a person who does that, doesn't actually live a normal life, but a low-level life. So he calls it a loose life. Of course that's what I get from that sentence.

About the position of an adverb in sentences with multi-word verbs, one of the members of this site once mentioned to me that it shouldn't break the verb. So I guess I'd want to know if in a sentence such as "He may already have gone out" which part is the verb.

Is the verb gone, or gone out, or have gone, or have gone out, or may have gone, etc.?

And, thanks for that info on End Credits and Opening Credits. I really was beginning to think by End Credits they meant we shouldn't expect any Saw III. So I guess I'll be eagerly looking forward to watching Saw III, if they make any.

Thanks again for your post.

رضا: So I guess now you know why that adverb, loosely, has been used. I think the speaker on that T.V. means that being and informant i snot really a job and a person who does that, doesn't actually live a normal life, but a low-level life. So he calls it a loose life. Of course that's what I get from that sentence.

Interesting. My interpretation (a portuguese speaker, not an english native speaker) was not that it was a loose life but that it could hardly be called a "life". So, to call it a "life" the speaker has to give a very loose interpretation to the word so it could be used in the sentence. It's a figure of speach, a way for the speaker to say that the character's way of life is not worthy of being called so.

...

I think that what applies to your sentence is the <h ref="http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/past-pa
rticiple.html">Contional Perfect. But I'm no english schollar so I wouldn't know how to evolve from that page :P

Reza. I'm curious about the fact you were able to view this movie. Where did you see it?

Walter Montego: Walter, they DO have cinemas in Iran (and everywhere else around the globe outside the US), as well as TV sets, VCRs, DVDs et cetera. We DO NOT live on trees.

Pedro Martínez: Pedro, I thought you lived in Czech Republic. Have you moved? I know you don't live in trees. Weren't they all cut down?

I was asking this of Reza because of how he told me they censor rock music in Iran a few months back, but I didn't know if they censored movies of this type. I'm well aware that California exports movies around the globe, it is where I live. I'm willing to bet you can buy just about any movie you want to in Czuch Republic at any store that sells them. I doubt if this is the case in Iran, hence my question for Reza. There's probably an underground or blackmarket for the restricted movies and songs. Same thing for China and anywhere else that has people dictating to others what they can watch or listen too. Think about it. China censors the Rolling Stones! What are the "authorities" afraid of? It's just music. I sure don't need someone forcing me as to what to listen to or not listen to. I'm perfectly capable of changing the station or shutting the radio off on my own and I don't have to buy anyone's music if I don't want to. I sure wouldn't want to live in a place that made it against the law for me to buy a Rolling Stones album whether or not I wanted to buy one. I believe I should make the choice for myself.

I've always been amazed that here in the United States you can buy or see just about any movie with a very large amount of torture, violence, and killing in it, but if there's any kind of nudity in it without even sex they slap an R rating on it. Why is it here that parents would rather have their kids see someone put a bullet in someone's head, but get upset if the sex shown goes beyond a kiss?

Reza is using this board to learn about language. Are American made movies that feature violence a good way to learn English? So many movies of all types are made here. I can't say that I've ever heard of a Czech movie being shown in a theater around here. I'm willing to bet you've seen a few movies made in California or other parts of the United States. What about our television shows? Do you guys watch them too? How about satellite service? Do you get HBO and other American content programs there? In English? Maybe this is one more reason that English is so well known. I'm amazed at how many people on this site and elsewhere in the world speak English. I never made the connection until right now that it might be in part because of movies. Is it not something to wonder why so many of the movies in the world that are worldwide known are made in the United States? Why is that? Why don't other countries have a lot of films for me to see here? I think England and Canada are the only other coutries I have seen movies or television shows from. Maybe France too, I can't remember. How many countries besides the United States do not have a government bureaucracy for the approval of print, movies, or music? I wanted to know if he saw it in a theater or at home. Or if it had been shown in the theater at all. Had it not been for the fact that I just happened to be walking past a television showing this Saw II two weeks ago, I would never have made the connection to the words he wrote down. I have to think Reza has seen the movie more than one time to know these words so well, so maybe he has the DVD and played it over a few times in that part of the movie to get the words.

Have you seen the movie? I did not watch it except for that part that he just happens to be quoting. I find movies like that to be a waste of my time to watch. I have little interest in seeing yet another way to kill someone. And it is as graphic as Reza says. I did not realize the key was inside of his head, put there by the guy that put the beartrap contraption on his victim's head and started a clock running. It's hard not to look at such stuff, but it can be done. Just leave the room or change the channel. Obviously my way of thinking on this is a small minority view or there wouldn't be money to be made from the making of movies of this type. Like I said earlier, I can decide for myself to watch a movie or not. So now I'm wanting to hear from Reza about this movie and how he came to see it in Iran. Or even if he liked the movie. I didn't watch it, so I don't know if I would have liked it. One movie of this type that I have seen is "Silence of the Lamb".

How do they advertise movies in Iran, or Czech Republic? Some movies here get plastered in every type of media you can think of.

Walter Montego: I never made the connection until right now that it might be in part because of movies. Is it not something to wonder why so many of the movies in the world that are worldwide known are made in the United States?

Movies, TV shows, etc... Here in Portugal, most of the programs that are shown on TV or in the cinema are subtitled. In Brasil and Spain, for instance they are dubbed. I've always thought that it could be a very strong reason to the fact that, overall, the portuguese have a better understanding and accent of the english language than some other people do - you get to listen it everytime on tv and cinema and you end up making connections from certain words or expressions from what is written in the subtitles to what the actors say.
That's also why, most people will feel more familiar with the american accent rather than the british one - most of the stuff that shows up on TV that comes from abroad, comes from the USA.

Walter: Although this board is not meant for a chat on movies, I am really willing to talk about that specific movie more. Actually the two of them. There's a Saw I too as you may know.

Well, in Iran we do have cinemas, we do have T.V. channels -- not as many as you do, but around 10 or 11 -- and we do have stores that sell movies on both CDs and DVDs.

I can assure you Iran has the best dubers in the world. I have watched many French movies that hav ebeen dubbed into English, and I've found the dubbing rather stupid and funny sometimes.

In Iran dubbers even try to keep the tone of voice, intonation, feelings, etc, as well as the length of the sentences. You sure do understand that an English sentence and its equivalent in farsi don't have the same length and number of words. Yet the amazing part is that in movies that are played on T.V. you hardly can realise the speaker is speaking a language other than Farsi. I, just because I'm familiar with English to a great extent, sometimes lip-read the speakers and admire the work of the dubbers.

The movies that are played on T.V. are both Iranian movies and those from many other countries and are all dubbed. That's mainly because many many people in here don't understand any language other than Farsi.

In cinemas, only Iranian movies are played for rhe same reason. If they play an English film, not many will go to watch it. Not becaus ethey don't like it, but becaus ethey don't understand it.

On T.V., all movies are censored , both regarding sexuality and violence. And if a movie is full of these things and if they censore the parts, nothing remains actually, just like this Saw movie, they just don't play it.

But you can find almost every movie on the blackmarket. The price is quite low, lower than what you can imagine. I buy any DVD, for $1.5! That's cheap, isn't it?

They're not original DVDs, but they have the same quality. And I'm quite grateful I can have all the movies I want.

To my surprise, some movies get here on DVD even before when their internet site says is the release date!

So that's how it is in Iran.

Now regarding the movie, I do recommend you watch both Saw I and II, and in order of course. I was very satisfied with both of them. There's more to them than just killing people and torturing them.

I have a few questions regarding both of them, in regards with both the language used, and the movie itself. So if anyone is willing to help me understand a few points, just let me know.

I have, as you said, watched those movies many times to understand all of it. maybe 5 times each. A bigger surprise may be that I have watched each of The Lord of the Rings around eight times too!

Langtolang

given to me by a vietnamese, it's helpful for several languages.

Nirvana: That's a dictionary, not a translator.
Marfitalu: Slavic<--->Non-Slavic language translators suck. It's good to use them if you want to confuse yourself. Nothing else.

Marfitalu: BTW, if you want a good on*line dictionary, try
http://slovnik.seznam.cz/ or
http://slovnik.cz

Marfitalu: I have a few of them installed on my puter, I don't know about any that would be available on-line though. I'm sorry I can't help.

Pedro Martínez:

it will translate.

Marfitalu:

google is helpful also.

Nirvana: Really? How would it translate "Jak se vede, brachu?"

Pedro Martínez:
it didn't, nor did one or two others I tried. But I have been using it for a little very basic Turkish e.g good luck. (I get invites for turkish checkers, which I am trying to learn) having checked first with Damamaster to make sure the words I used were the right ones.
But it did do czech to english of most of it,
Jak se vede came up as how are you. Brachu didn't translate.

I have two questions:

1) How many consonantal sounds can come exactly after one another in English?

For example in the word "Faxed" we have /..kst/ which is three consonantal sounds after one another.

Do we have four or five or more?

2) How many vowels can come exactly one after one another?

In the word "serious" we have i, o, u and in "queue" we have u, e, u, e.

Do we have more?

رضا: I have never thought of it before???

Plus I have never heard of the word 'consonantal' before! Thank you I have just leant a new word

رضا:
1) One minor correction: the pronunciation of 'faxed' ends with "ksd", not "kst". :)
Extra = 4 sounds like these. BTW, in Czech we can make whole sentences with consonants only. For example: "Strč prst skrz krk" (meaning "Poke your finger through your neck"

2) How about "blueeyed?

Lamby: I meant learned! not leant!

Pedro Martínez: Poke your finger through your neck? How often does that sentence come up in conversation???

Blue eyed! Two words, doesn't count

Lamby: LOL...very often, indeed!
A very nice all-consonant Czech word is "smrskls" ("you have shrunk"). :)

Blueeyed DOES count, hun!
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=blueeyed

Pedro Martínez: I'd love to hear that converstion!

Is dictionary.com American? It doesn't exisit in the Oxford English dictionary
http://www.askoxford.com/results/?view=searchresults&freesearch=blue%20eyed&branch=&textsearchtype=exact

Pedro Martínez: I'm sure of the pronunciation of the word "faxed." It is /faekst/.

Whenever a verb ends in a /s/ sound and it gets ed to change its tense to past, the 'ed' is pronounced /t/. But I'd like a native to confirm it.

About blue-eyed, it has three vowels after one another. Queue has four. That's if you don't coundt 'y' as a vowel, which I can assure you is not one!

Lamby: Oh yes. I'm sure you haven't. I also bet you have never thought about the fact that the pronunciation of the word 'ten' changes in the examples below:

Ten cats
Ten birds
Ten vests

Fenceeeeeeer ..... Where are my phonetic symbols?

رضا: How does the pronunciation of 'ten' change? I read them out loud & it stays the same for me

Lamby: Same with me. I reread then a few times. Each time sound the same

Lamby and Rose: Haha! Try more. Pay attention to the way you pronounce the last 'n' in Ten.

رضا: no I still don't get it

Lamby: This phonological process is called assimilation if it is any help :-)

maybe it's helpful if I mention actually the way you pronounce 'n' in bank is different from how you pronounce it in nerve.

رضا: Yes I understand what you mean now but I still don't think that it works on that example. It's two seperate words..ten cats..etc. therefore you pause between words so the 'n' stays the same.
Well it stays the same for me........

Pedro Martínez: Pedro, if you write them with only consonants, it doesn't matter. But I'm sure you cannot read them with just consonants or I'll hav eto say you have a really tough language to learn.

رضا: You're sure I can't read it with consonants only? Well, then you know more about my language than me...:)

Lamby: So I win, huh? Assimilation is when a sound changes the pronunciation of another sound. It mostly changes just the place of articulation.

Ten birds is actually in rapid speech said : tem birds

That's because /n/ is a voiced, alveolar, nasal sound and /b/ is voiced, bilabial, nasal. When they come together, /n/ changes into /m/ which is voiced, bilabial, nasal.

As you can see, it is easier to pronounce /m/ and then /b/ than /n/ and then /b/.

Now see if you can get it about my other examples.

Pedro Martínez: You mean you can? That's very odd then!

رضا: It's not odd at all. We roll the 'r', just like the Spanish-speaking people do. And that's very helpful in words and sentences with no consonants.

رضا: no, I still don't say 'tem boys' when I say ten birds fast!
Maybe I'm paying too much attention in pronouncing them correctly?