Artful Dodger: Oh good grief, I just now found out what the big deal was. Your point was to show that every war we've entered into over the past 100 years has been when a Democrat president has been in office.

Since going to war is always intitiated by an executive order given by the President of The United States of America, and every president over the past 100 years who has initiated such an order has been a Democrat, then that should settle the question of which party is the party of war.

Singling out Republicans as the party of war is a ridiculous enough lie to begin with, but it's even more ridiculous because wars don't just wait around for a particular party to be in power before they decide to happen. So essentially what we've been hearing from Democrats about how they are the party of peace is not just a crock of you know what, it's a double crock. But hey, if they don't want credit for helping to defeat Hitler or for bringing the war with Japan to an early end, then I'm all for giving the Republicans credit for that. Now watch as they get defensive and say, "Hell no, we did that!"

[]_ [[]] []_ to the tenth power... can you hear me laughing now?

Iamon lyme: They are the part of racism and the party of war AND the party of "blame the other guy."

Iamon lyme: [...every war we've entered into over the past 100 years... ]

Oh yeah? Well what about Iraq? What about those wars, huh? Well? If we Dems hadn't been working so hard to strangle oil exploration and drilling and refusing to upgrade and build new refineries you Repugs wouldn't have been so thirsty for oil that you would actually, uh, you know, because we've been wanting to explore new alternatives to oil because, well oil is dirty, you know, like coal, not as dirty but you know what I mean... uh, um.. okay never mind... as you were... carry on.

Iamon lyme: It may come as a surprise but I'm thinking of becoming a liberal. I'm tired of thinking for myself.

Artful Dodger: I don't know about you, but I was a liberal during the early 70's and it's not as easy as you might think. Thinking for yourself is better and much more satisfying, I'll grant you that, but I need to take a break from it now and then.

I took a break tonight. Visited one of my daughters and played with the grandkids, and made it a point to forget all about politics for at least a few hours. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything by not seeing the debate tonight, because of what I already know about VP debates: It was probably a dog fight compared to the Romney/Obama debate. I know that Bidden prepared for it, as did Ryan. And over the next 5 days depending on how it went, the media will either spin what happened or declare victory for Bidden. I'm hoping I'm wrong, because it's the predictable nature of politics that make it so mind numbingly boring to watch.

Iamon lyme: Ryan was a gentleman and Biden was an ass.

Artful Dodger: I managed to see a brief clip from the debate on a local news program, and I couldn't help feeling sorry for Bidden because of how foolish he looked. Ryan is so much younger but you wouldn't know it if just listening to them talk. Ryan wasn't disrespectful, but he did come across as being more mature. But like I said, it was just a brief clip, so I'll have to find a transcript of the debate and read it... I'd rather do it that way than see it, so I didn't really miss anything important. Playing with the grandkids tonight was important, didn't want to miss out on that.

Iamon lyme: Last night, Joe Biden was a three-letter word: J-E-R-K

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/12/last-night-joe-biden-was-a-three-letter-word-j-e-r-k/#ixzz295tjC800

Artful Dodger: I swore the ticket had become Obama/Biden/Raddatz

She seemed to be trying to help Biden through a lot of it.

Granted, he needed it.

rod03801: That's odd (not really) because the first debate appeared to be Obama/Biden/Blitzer

rod03801: Several commentators made the same observation. When Biden was in trouble on a particular topic, she moved to another topic. Biden interrupted Ryan over 80 times. Ryan interrupted barely a handful. Biden smirked, rolled his eyes (like some middle school girl) and was mocking. And Biden had plenty of gaffes too.

Artful Dodger: She also goaded him, and not Biden "Oh , so STILL no specifics?" she said that twice that I remember. It just seemed like she wanted to confront Ryan, and coddle Biden.

rod03801: You missed where she questioned Biden's statement regarding the withdrawal of troops during the "fighting season" she stated she was skeptical that the generals were down with it, Biden had to clarify the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff supported the timetable......I suppose the debate can be viewed differently depending which horse you have in the race, but that and the Libya issue were examples of the mod hold the VP's feet to the fire IMO

Joe Biden
The military reason was bringing -- by the way, when the president announced the surge, you'll remember, Martha, he said the surge will be out by the end of the summer. The military said the surge will be out. Nothing political about this.

Before the surge occurred -- so you be a little straight with me here, too -- before the surge occurred, we said they'll be out by the end of the summer. That's what the military said. The reason for that is...

RADDATZ: The military follows orders. I mean, there -- trust me. There are people who were concerned about pulling out on the fighting season.

BIDEN: Sure. There are people that are concerned, but not the Joint Chiefs. That was their recommendation in the Oval Office to the president of the United States of America. I sat there. I'm sure you'll find someone who disagrees with the Pentagon. I'm positive you'll find that within the military. But that's not the case here.

And, secondly, the reason why the military said that is, you cannot wait and have a cliff. It takes -- you know -- months and months and months to draw down forces

rod03801: This should help explain things a bit more clearly:

Artful Dodger: It really is a shame you have turned what could be a respectful forum for political discussion into a spam filled propaganda board

The Col: "It really is a shame you have turned what could be a respectful forum for political discussion into a spam filled propaganda board"


[]_ [[]] []_

It is really a shame you can't remember what you say from one day to the next.

Iamon lyme: Are eggshells a popular floor covering in your world?

(V): That makes as much sense as anything else you've said, but why anyone would think a one day reinvention of himself that ends the same day could carry any weight is beyond my ability to fathom... and the inability to fathom this was one of my limitations that made being a liberal difficult if not impossible. Apparently my DNA was coded for me to become a conservative instead of a liberal. But I did try, you have to at least give me credit for that... or not. Maybe tomorrow you can.

Iamon lyme: ahhh the 'ex liberal'.. just like ex smokers. Ok.. we get it, you had a revelation and realised you could blame things on being liberal.

Isn't that though a bit hypocritical, as apparently we can't blame Bush anymore!

Does your DNA approve of cluster bombs?

(V): [ Does your DNA approve of cluster bombs? ]

Is telegraphing your moves after the fact encoded in yours?

Iamon lyme: I am as I am. No more and no less and content with that.

Do you approve of cluster bombs?

(V): [ Do you approve of cluster bombs? ]

Are you talking about literal bombs used in actual wars, or are you refering to what it is you do when you are losing ground in a debate and so begin "lobbing bombs"? I have to assume it's the second meaning because I either missed the discussion on the use of (literal) cluster bombs, or you are wanting to change the subject and talk about the use of (literal) cluster bombs. So before I can answer your question it is necessary that I must ask which is it?

Are you asking about literal or figurative cluster bombs?

Iamon lyme: Literal cluster bombs... it has relevance.

(V): [ Literal cluster bombs... it has relevance. ]

Relevance to what? I have no problem with you using cluster bombs in your video games if they are available to you. IMO the only possible victim in such a game is the player. It's up to you how you want to spend your time, that's not my call, so your question in regard to video war games is with all due respect irrelevant.

If you are asking if I personally approve of cluster bombs, I can't help you out with that either because implements of war isn't a specialty of mine. I take it you do not approve of them, but in the interest of schlepping this line of thought flowing onward and keeping you otherwise occupied as theives break into your place and tippy toe out the door with some things in your fridge you would not want to part with how do you feel about guns or knives? How about protective shielding, or is that cheating?

(V): You buy that? I don't, just a strawman he created.

The Col: Nooooo, just an excuse... like using God, or babies. If the American conservative Christians were as being 'stated', then the mess of Agent Orange would have been cleared up decades ago.

They'd have marched on Washington!

Iamon lyme: Propaganda board? I thought liberals loved propaganda!

rod03801: "...coddle Biden."

That's hilarious. Okay, so maybe her maternal instincts kicked in, we can't fault her for that. It can happen to the most hardened feminist whether they want it to happen or not. Genetic programing can be ignored only up to a point. and guys have the same problem, no matter how sensitive and caring we try to be the beast manages to surface at some point. And no one can be blamed for this, because it's not anyone's fault... it's evolutions fault. Or maybe the aliens who seeded this planet with the DNA that made it all possible... its their fault too. And I'm sure Bush had something to do with it.

Okay, I take back what I said about being a liberal... it really is as easy as it seems to be.

Artful Dodger: Why do I get the feeling this debate will be downplayed if not ignored? I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, it's just that I have this gut feeling I won't be hearing much about it in the news.

Artful Dodger: On the other hand, I'll probably not be any better informed than I am now by reading the entire transcript. This is the result of Biden preparing himself for a debate?

Obama should have been prepared and Biden phone it in... they both would have done better.