(V): but the point im making is its not has rosy has what your making out either

theres always good and bad in any way of life but the way you come across is the UK dosnt have ANY problems AT ALL

Bernice: No.. being realistic rather then a sensationalist.

Like the Police and British Crime survey showing violent crime falling.

But what do they know?

TheCrazyPuppy: I read he news, watch the news, see how people are changing things.

Oh I know nearby, there use to be one area that was very bad, they cleaned it up by thinking through the problems. Though the final solution of demolition is yet to be completed.

And please.. drugs, guns and knives are just symptoms of underlying problems. Unfortunately 'imported' through 'idols' through lack of hope amongst other things to scary to speak about on this board... being open to children!!

As for the percentage of unsafe areas in this country.. yes there are some, but I feel not as many as you are making out to be. And seemingly thanks to tactics and policies introduced.. I read the figures are dropping.

But hey.. ho, that's just the reported news.

TheCrazyPuppy: yes he does LOL....because in the past if Jules has said something it is gods honest truth...

and I agree with you that drugs, guns and knives are part of everyday living.....there is no use hiding under a rock and pretending it doesn't happen which is what I believe him to be doing.......turning a blind eye as such

(V): how do you know inner city ppl dont live in fear

you cant possible know that for a fact
there are many many areas of this country that drugs guns and knives are part of everyday life
there are many many places were its still very unsafe to go out after dark

you know exactly what is going on in your own neighbour hood but you havnt a clue what is going on in mine or in the next town to me or the next one after that do you?

TheCrazyPuppy: We've had a gang culture for years.. Remember the Crays. Nothing new about that. And the amount of stabbings seems to be dropping.

And no.. Inner city people do not live in fear, in some places it may be bad, but to say that it's all bad is an over exaggeration. And in some respects, it's starting to rekindle the community spirit that we lost under Thatcher. eg.. where we live they use to before we moved here quite a problem with yobs.... But the community got together with the police and courts and sorted them out.

Now... it's very peaceful here.

And of certain areas, the problem rises from old style housing, as in too many people in a small area. Most councils are now getting tearing down such housing estates and going back to more relaxed housing systems that encourage a more peaceful life for the residents.

Things are changing for the better. But Rome was not built over night!!

Bernice: V forgot to mention the amount of young ppl who have been stabbed in the last few years and we have a gang culture here to in the big city's
and there are many weapons on the streets that shouldnt be there esp concerning drugs

im proud to be British to but im sad to say that in the inner city's ppl live in fear of these yobs and keep quiet for fear of being there next victim

one of the shameful things about being British is we have one of the highest teenage pregancy rates in Europe

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=7&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F1%2Fhi%2Fhealth%2F7911684.stm&ei=El__SZbuEc2OjAegp-GsAw&usg=AFQjCNEr2xn3RXpBqhaXmhjc9dcD-dLI2g&sig2=Vi_95JQuJDxcyQV9VPkvLg

Bernice: No, the UK is not perfect, but there is nothing wrong on being proud of your country.

Those kids might have minds of their own, but if 'home' guns are locked up securely then that's one less potential way of them getting guns. It seems to easy in America for kids to get guns legit!! I know there is no way to stop the black market, but other avenues can be limited.

Yes.. we have crime.. In some areas it's decreasing and some it's increasing. But at least our gun crime level is far lower then many countries.

I wasn't changing the subject.. it was a related topic. Don't you understand that?

(V): ***I mean.. over here in the UK before the gun rules changed, if someone wanted to own a gun they had to be approved, and also the storage at home had strict rules.... eg one locked secured box for the gun(s) and another for the ammo and firing mechanism***

Well all of USA will have to go to England then seeing as it is so good over there........
Stop the kids getting hold of guns and knives......yeah right, these "kids" you are talking about are young adults and they do have minds of their own.

I wished We all lived in such perfect places as you appear to do....is there nothing wrong with the UK? your opinions are always "UK is best" when we all know that your living conditions are no better than anywhere else. Your rates of crime are just as bad and in some cases even worse than other countries.

***And as for the subject.. As normal with any subject, people digress. I thought you would have gathered that by now!!*** I understand people digress but YOU are an expert at changing the subject.

Czuch: well... without detailed info, it is difficult to say. Some private schools I can postulate are not great, depending on who runs them and under what 'traditions'. EG a strict right wing school may not teach evolution, or sex ed, etc.

... In this case a private school would I'd say be bad to very bad. But, I must admit.. I don't know how in America.. private schools are 'audited' if at all by the local authorities. Over here, how well schools perform is public information open to all... In America??????

(V): Yeah, I would find it difficult to believe too many bad private schools.... some public could be better than private ones, but unlikely private ones are very bad

Bernice: Not all countries have a murder problem at school as a big problem. And as in America, which has a gun problem.. simple. Stop the kids getting hold of guns and knives. It seems to easy for a teenage kid to get hold of guns and go on the rampage... Too easy. I mean.. over here in the UK before the gun rules changed, if someone wanted to own a gun they had to be approved, and also the storage at home had strict rules.... eg one locked secured box for the gun(s) and another for the ammo and firing mechanisms.

And IMHO.. if at year dot all kids are taught at school that bullying was a no go, then perhaps later incidents of 'murder' would drop.

And as for the subject.. As normal with any subject, people digress. I thought you would have gathered that by now!!

My god....you have no idea what I'm talking about here......no bullying would be great except the kids at the school I'm talking about carry guns and knives...if they only bullied it would be great.

I dont agree with bullying either but kids should learn to stand up for themselves, by saying just the right thing in the right place......the power of the word is great.

Im talking murder not bullying..........stick to the subject

GTCharlie: And some do, and close down, or merge... or have to get their act together, just like with public schools.

At least, that's the way it happens over here. We also have a strict no bullying rule, that is taught from year dot now. Which, at least for my kids seems that the schools they've attended is working. Here it's a matter of closest schools first, no catchment area skipping unless there are no local places.

Unless you want to pay private.... But mostly that is not needed as Catholic, Christian, Muslim, Public, etc can get funded by the government.

(V): I would say no as they would lose paying customers.

GTCharlie: Then all I can say is that in Philly if the best schools are only Catholic, then what on earth are the others doing? I see that public schools from looking at rankings can be just as good.

... And I would imagine some can be just as bad as the bad public schools.

Unless, you can substantiate such a claim of.. "those who can and care...send their children to private or Catholic schools in this city" .... which, unless the USA system is so lop sided that it is so different from the UK system, that.. in which public schools can be the best in the country.

Bernice: There are SOME decent schools in the city and they say the Charter schools are good, but there is a big battle to get your child in the decent ones, and there is a big drop off in quality compared to the surrounding suburban public schools

GTCharlie: yes there must be some way to get your children away from the hate/murder/ tactics that are being used in the High School I was speaking of.

As one of the teachers said, I think she was an english teacher, "It just isn't cool to be top of the class" some of those kids had more brains than any of us on here but were reluctant to use them because of the terrorising they would get from their "friends"

GTCharlie....it is the old story....there are none so deaf than those that will NOT hear...

(V): I'm just telling it like it is in Philly, right or wrong and I believe there are stats ,, but if you dont care to see it that way, thats ok too,, those who can and care...send their children to private or Catholic schools in this city

Czuch: No, that's not knowing if all the bad apples have been removed from the barrel. The RCC was a little hesitant in admitting to the problem, and although I've no experience of problems from being taught in a RCC school, I would still be cautious for the safety of my children out of concern as any parent would be.

You've missed a lot of news here Czuch, not just about the RCC, but about other items that schools rely on to insure that those who work with kids are safe. And of old episodes, that despite people being told, were 'ignored', for the sake of image.

Luckily.. my alert senses ain't gone off yet.

Bernice:There are many factors that can contribute to the kind of violence the school in the documentary experienced.  And unfortunately, for many parents it's also a situation where they are trapped in the school system.  For many, it's either go to that school or it's no school at all.  Not a good choice. 

I have faith in good administrators and good teachers to meet this challenge.  I have no faith in any government to fix the problem.  The government is far too often incompetent in these kinds of things.  Case in point is the No Child Left Behind legislation that Bush signed.  The failure of this legislation serves to illustrate just how stupid political can be.  Often the solutions they find are nothing more than attempts to score political points at the expense of innocent people. 

Artful Dodger: Thank you for your information and comments. I wanted to hear from someone that had ACTUAL experience in the schooling field, and not from someone that was just guessing.

The doco that I watched was horrific and parents didn't know if their kids were going to survive the day at school or not.

We are very lucky here that we dont have the "gang mentality" that other countries appear to have AS YET.

Thanks for your input

Violence in UK schools

I'm just guessing here but I would say that these stories parallel stories that one might find in the US.  It's a sad reality of our social structure.  I think it's safe to say this sort of thing is driven by poverty.  The articles in the above link point to the home as a major contributing factor to many of  the problems schools face.  I know this is true.  But a culture of poverty brings with it an entirely different set of values and hierarchical needs.  It's easy to blame the parents but that doesn't even begin to address the problem.

Violence in US Schools

I found more informations just now.  Some on that documentary Bernice mentioned.  The school in that docu is considered one of the most dangerous schools in America. 

 

Bernice:I couldn't find anything on that school but I can tell you that it isn't representative of US schools.  But is is likey representative of a culture of violence that finds its way into some US schools.   I suspect that there are problems like this in the UK as well.  It's a cultural problem, not a school problem.  The kids don't come from sweet loving middle class homes and then all of a sudden, when they step into the school building, they become animals.  They were animals first and they brought their culture of hate and violence with them when they went through the school doors.

True innocent and well behaved students are caught in the crossfire.  It's not all students but it does effect them all.  Solutions aren't easy but there are solutions.  To ignore the problem, which some administrations do, is to become a part of the problem. 

(V): And as for Catholic schools.. referring back to some events not that long ago.. It could be a change from one nightmare to another.


that's a bit of stereotyping isn't it!!

GTCharlie: that's a bit of stereotyping isn't it!! And as for Catholic schools.. referring back to some events not that long ago.. It could be a change from one nightmare to another.

Bernice: mostly in the urban areas only that i know of. there are a few like that in Philadelphia.That is why some people that can flee the cities.others put their children in Catholics schools. and as for those parents??? come on..most don't have fathers in the house and the mothers have children by different men

I have just finished watching a horrific doco about "Walter Cohen High" in New Orleans.....why would parents sent their kids to a school like that where they dont have any guarantee that they will even live out the day?

Is this a true representation of school life in America?

Jim Dandy:

GTCharlie: It's pretty typical of politicians worldwide.One minute they are depicting the opposition to be satan, the next minute they are sharing dinner.The only time you see unification of cause is when their pension is being discussed.

Snoopy: The inquiry won't take long once the forensics come back... As the family say.. they'll get the answers to the questions they have. That he dies a few minutes after being attacked by a policemen rather makes them curious!!

Czuch: Many want proportional representation over here. It's more democratic and ideally no one party will have enough power to bulldoze through with a policy, hence.. hopefully, things will be more though out.

As for the policemen.. Too early, it's the real world and forensics take time. But one point... Initially the police said they had to protect Ian Tomlinson against protesters... A deliberate lie... As I've mentioned earlier, the police forgot that today as much as they monitor us, we can monitor them.

Czuch: nothing in last few days
these enquiry's take along time here unless ive missed something
and if i have im sure V will fill us in next time he on

Snoopy: Any word on the police, that brutally attacked a man walking home from work to watch the football match with his hands in his pockets and his back to them, yet?

Artful Dodger: The really big story here is the news media lack of coverage and outrage over this event


If this was Bush..... you wouldnt even know what a swine flu was, this story would be headlined in every news paper and on every news show on tv, they would be talking about how stupid he is and how corrupt and insensitive and how much money it cost and how much fuel was used and how unnecessary it was and how stupid he is and how dumb he is and how incompetent he is, and how dumb he is, and did I say how stupid he is yet...... But this is the chosen one.....

GTCharlie: funny though in past elections, dems would demonize him,thats why both sides make me sick




Thats the part of politics that no average person likes.... nothing is genuine, at the core its all really just politics....

Maybe instead of more political parties we should just have NO political parties???? Just individuals with ideas and ideals of their own.... sometimes it seems like the political parties themselves are the biggest problems with politics

Jim Dandy: he's switching Back where he originally came from, but in my opinion he 's been pretty decent for PA., funny though in past elections, dems would demonize him,thats why both sides make me sick

Bwild:Yeah they did let people know.  Under the circumstances, they should have notified the TV stations too.   cover all the bases IMO

Snoopy: funny...news here claimed it was planned and city officials were notified

Snoopy: it is called asking for trouble and when trouble strikes it is then called "asking for sympathy"

that the people in charge of things can do
this has got to be the worst stunt ever
what on earth were they thinking of

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/8022881.stm

This news will, and maybe should be met cynically.The man wants to remain employed, but the impact is huge.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/28/specter.party.switch/

GTCharlie:

Thanks for the bit of help!

GTCharlie: Written by someone who seems to have got his figures wrong.

Oh well, at least he has a day job

Czuch: Czuch... you are forgetting that your health care is ranked 37th in the world, yet is one of the most expensive systems in the world.

It's called having an unregulated system, that's costing your countrymen a fortune for a system that doesn't work.

You guys are paying about 15%+ of your GDP compared to our 8% (approx) and we are ranked 18th in healthcare.

I think you ought to get your facts right and be realistic instead of making statements based on bad data and unresearched ideas.

(V): less per head... Ive never been one to believe cheaper is better, you get what you pay for dont you know

I think in the long run, most things that are more expensive actually save you money just because of their durability... for example, you can end up buying 100 cheap pieces of hardware or just buy the good, more expensive ones in the first place


Point is, you get too hung up on cheap health care and education, you may end up with crappy health care and a second rate education.... you can keep your socialism, I havent seen any compelling argument that is the way for the US

Czuch: Less then your current system per head. And that's a fact!!

(V): yeah, so the manager gets his 10% cut or 1 million and he gives 500k to the government, funny how free health care and education costs so much

Czuch: Nahhhh, you forgot management fees etc.

And you got part of it. There are many more variables that affect taxation.